[iabob]

Very well put Bob and don't forget the Sling Shot and the erection of a new production plant. In 16 years Polaris has done a lot.

Was at my dealer yesterday picking up my LED head light. All we talked about was how big SlingShot was becoming. The Clubs and the after market building accessories. Performance goodies for the motor. I was actually considering one. Why not. I live in year round warm climate and love to tinker and modify toys. This thing is too cool.

Yep. If I were to entertain rumors, on of them I heard prior to release of the Slingshot was they were forecasting demand to be a couple thousand units a year. I'm pretty sure they were surprised by how high demand is. I rode one and it's just plain fun. Really tempted to trade the Vision for one and use it as our 2-up ride, but I would need a bigger garage.

 

[Bujee1]

Double winner. The first year Victory turned a profit for Polaris was 2006. Sales have grown every year since. I have no idea what folks are smoking when they fabricate these fairy tales of the brand being on it's death bed, getting phased out, or getting saved. The only motorcycle brands I've ever seen dead or dying and then saved are Harley, Triumph, and Indian. And I'm grateful as I like all three.

Obviously a lot of Polaris motorcycle R&D has been going into Indian, but why does that have to mean anything other than a lot of Polaris motorcycle R&D has been going into Indian? Yeah the last few years have been (understandably) quite for Victory. But even without any changes besides paint and wheels...Vic sales are still growing. As for this desire for new models, it's fine and well to want to get excited over something new and kickass, but consider in just 16 years: V92c, Freedom engine, Vegas-Kingpin, 100" engine, Hammer-Jackpot, 106 engine, Vision, Cross Country, Highball-Gunner-Magnum variants, first major motorcycle manufacturer to race and sell a production all electric bike! Whew! All this AND they took a few years off to save Indian. Are you kidding me???

Name any other company that can compete with that? I as much as anyone would like to see more incremental improvements. But it's important to remember even though successful, we're still talking about two relatively small brands. Business requires a return on investment so putting bigger bags on a Vision or an electric windshield on a Cross Country means investment that must be spread out over the number of units sold. Sell 70,000 Street Glides a year and a new fairing or new electronics is easy to justify. Sell 7000 Cross Country's ( or Cheiftains ) a year and that math changes dramatically. This I believe is why Polaris does what they do. All the R&D gets done, but is out on a shelf and held for the next new bike. No changing out the wire harness, mounting hardware, assembly line tooling, worker training, etc.

Triple winner!
There haven't been a lot of changes to the 106 because they aren't needed. I know "new and shiny is always better ", but some of us need to relax for a minute. Suzuki has been making the M109r power cruiser since 2006 with very few changes. I can tell you from experience, it is not as good a bike as the any of the Victorys. With Victory, for the cost of an exhaust, a power commander and a high flow air cleaner we can go from good to great. Throw in some cams and an adjustable timing wheel and you get awesome. And that isn't just for one model, it's for the whole line, going back at least 5 years. Or you can do no more than change the oil and pay attention to it and get tens of thousands of trouble free miles. No one else can say that. Sure we can dream and speculate over what will be next, but don't stop riding and enjoying your current bikes while you're waiting.

 

[98741]

Triple winner!
There haven't been a lot of changes to the 106 because they aren't needed. I know "new and shiny is always better ", but some of us need to relax for a minute. Suzuki has been making the M109r power cruiser since 2006 with very few changes. I can tell you from experience, it is not as good a bike as the any of the Victorys. With Victory, for the cost of an exhaust, a power commander and a high flow air cleaner we can go from good to great. Throw in some cams and an adjustable timing wheel and you get awesome. And that isn't just for one model, it's for the whole line, going back at least 5 years. Or you can do no more than change the oil and pay attention to it and get tens of thousands of trouble free miles. No one else can say that. Sure we can dream and speculate over what will be next, but don't stop riding and enjoying your current bikes while you're waiting.

Triple winner!
There haven't been a lot of changes to the 106 because they aren't needed. I know "new and shiny is always better ", but some of us need to relax for a minute. Suzuki has been making the M109r power cruiser since 2006 with very few changes. I can tell you from experience, it is not as good a bike as the any of the Victorys. With Victory, for the cost of an exhaust, a power commander and a high flow air cleaner we can go from good to great. Throw in some cams and an adjustable timing wheel and you get awesome. And that isn't just for one model, it's for the whole line, going back at least 5 years. Or you can do no more than change the oil and pay attention to it and get tens of thousands of trouble free miles. No one else can say that. Sure we can dream and speculate over what will be next, but don't stop riding and enjoying your current bikes while you're waiting.

You said-There haven't been a lot of changes to the 106 because they aren't needed. Not true its because the Indian line was coming out and they wanted it to take off. They didn't want family rivalry so they would never come out with two new designs each from Indian and Victory at the same time.

 

[Bujee1]

You said-There haven't been a lot of changes to the 106 because they aren't needed. Not true its because the Indian line was coming out and they wanted it to take off. They didn't want family rivalry so they would never come out with two new designs each from Indian and Victory at the same time.

Not many people are trading in their Vic's for Indians.

 

[Ghostrider25]

Well, the 106 IS a great engine, and it's because it's a great engine that it has afforded Polaris the luxury of completely ignoring it. I don't really think this was the smartest thing they could have done. This engine, as good as it is, needs some refinement. It could be much better than it already is if they would just give it a little love. This what Suzuki did with the Bandit engine. They refined it and improved it over a period of years until it became the bullet proof beast that it is today. I'm not bashing at all. I'm just saying that the 106 could be so much better, stronger and more quiet and most importantly, just as reliable.

Look there is no getting around it, the new release buzz that was created for this model year was a dudd. That should not be allowed to happen again. If ya don't have anything new to offer, that's cool; just don't create a buzz and then roll out nothin!

 

[Bujee1]

Well, the 106 IS a great engine, and it's because it's a great engine that it has afforded Polaris the luxury of completely ignoring it. I don't really think this was the smartest thing they could have done. This engine, as good as it is, needs some refinement. It could be much better than it already is if they would just give it a little love. This what Suzuki did with the Bandit engine. They refined it and improved it over a period of years until it became the bullet proof beast that it is today. I'm not bashing at all. I'm just saying that the 106 could be so much better, stronger and more quiet and most importantly, just as reliable.

Look there is no getting around it, the new release buzz that was created for this model year was a dudd. That should not be allowed to happen again. If ya don't have anything new to offer, that's cool; just don't create a buzz and then roll out nothin!

Ok. You got me there. They should have hyped the electric bike and called it a day.

 

[Flyboy]

You said-There haven't been a lot of changes to the 106 because they aren't needed. Not true its because the Indian line was coming out and they wanted it to take off. They didn't want family rivalry so they would never come out with two new designs each from Indian and Victory at the same time.

I would say they used lessons learned in the Vic engines to build a better Indian engine as well as sub componets. In the future both gain and the scout is most likely sporting the liguid cooled rumored for Vic... No harm as they know they a winner, now do you want that in Vanilla or chocolate spice, as Vic benefited this time...

 

[98741]

Not many people are trading in their Vic's for Indians.

Trading in or not had nothing to do with it. The Indian has a better engine as that's what my post was based on . some are Vic riders some are Indian and Duca riders. And again you are incorrect I have seen many traded going from Victory to Indian. if you like the history of Indian you would tend to migrate to one. I love the history and though I think it's over all a better bike in some areas indian
doesn't do anything for me. the Victory does it for me.

 

[RedRyder]

1. I agree a 4 cyl India would be sweet. Then add the "old" technology of cooling with oil from Victory and the heat is solved.

2. On a rainy night at The Chip I was talking with Victory performance guys and Victory "staff". All of them told me to be patient and wait for the "new" Vision coming. Always trusting this group I have started my new Vision savings account. Sometimes rain is good.

 

[slickvic]

1. I agree a 4 cyl India would be sweet. Then add the "old" technology of cooling with oil from Victory and the heat is solved.

2. On a rainy night at The Chip I was talking with Victory performance guys and Victory "staff". All of them told me to be patient and wait for the "new" Vision coming. Always trusting this group I have started my new Vision savings account. Sometimes rain is good.

Ahhhh that is good news. I knew they wouldn't give up on their beloved in your face model of yesterday year. 8 yrs ago Vision made the world look at Victory. Love it or hate it the Vision captured bikers of all brands. I would love to make my XC a custom 1 up only bike by lowering it and raking it a bit with a 23 wheel. I would love a comfy tourer for me n Honey to ride 2 up on. Looks like I wait. Not that I was in any hurry.

 

[Bujee1]

Trading in or not had nothing to do with it. The Indian has a better engine as that's what my post was based on . some are Vic riders some are Indian and Duca riders. And again you are incorrect I have seen many traded going from Victory to Indian. if you like the history of Indian you would tend to migrate to one. I love the history and though I think it's over all a better bike in some areas indian
doesn't do anything for me. the Victory does it for me.

I am only incorrect based on your opinion. "What you see". You have no real data to support your claim. What surprises me is later in your post you support my point. You are not buying an Indian because the Victory does it for you. Do you think that you are the exception? I am willing to hazard a guess that Victory does it for many of us to the point that we, ( like you) feel that Victory meets our needs enough that it isn't worth the switch to Indian. Indian's growth comes from people who were riding something else.

 

[98741]

If you just asked what is it I don't like about the Indian I would have told you its the styling. if you are asking for data in terms of trading Victory for Indians its about 10%, Now How would I know? I simply asked the biggest dealers in New England. Next is HD at about 18% comprised of older HD mostly or second HD as a trade in, as it was implied that the majority of HD riders had 2 of them and traded one in to have both the Indian and HD.
The rest is mixed from various Bikes and long time riders who took time off getting back in.

I didn't say Victory meets or doesn't my needs enough to prevent me from switching , I did however switch a year ago. Why because it didn't meet one particular criteria . That doesn't mean I don't like Victory , I have a special place for them. When they meet my needs or they change I will be back in one. The Vision I demoed came close. Let me know what I can clarify for you if I was not clear? thank you.

 

[Ghostrider25]

1. I agree a 4 cyl India would be sweet. Then add the "old" technology of cooling with oil from Victory and the heat is solved.

2. On a rainy night at The Chip I was talking with Victory performance guys and Victory "staff". All of them told me to be patient and wait for the "new" Vision coming. Always trusting this group I have started my new Vision savings account. Sometimes rain is good.

Ah, more utterings of a new Vision. The real question is just how much longer are we supposed to wait? A lot of guys have been waiting since 2012 or so because they bought in 2009/2010 and the "new Vision is coming" talk has been floating around for a while now. These are the guys that are going to get tired of waiting and move onto something else. And it may or may not be Indian. Not everyone is into that heritage look. So I hope they don't wait too much longer. Speaking only for myself, I can wait because I'm only a year in and I am in no hurry to move to another bike. And as much as I love that Thunderstroke engine and tranny, I won't move to an Indian. They just don't do it for me.

Bottom line, Victory is in good shape with a strong product line, a good R&D dept. and a future that looks pretty bright. It just seems to me that their communication skills need improvement. Both with their Dealers and with the user base. Clean that up and improve your dealer network / customer support arms and get more spare parts in the pipeline and things will be much brighter indeed.

 

[Iron Ranger]

After six stitches in my clutch hand and a month and a half of rain I finally rode the Vision to work today. Holy Cow I love this machine! A second generation Vision would be great but I'm in no hurry to give up my Vision. Of course there is room for improvement, this is still the best riding motorcycle I've ever had. I still can't believe it weighs 900 lbs. I rode the CVO Road Glide at Daytona back in the spring and found it nice but cramped. The ride home on the Vision was an hour and a half of pure comfort.
Power windshields will really spoil a guy. What buffeting? Ride safe my friends.

 

[Bujee1]

If you just asked what is it I don't like about the Indian I would have told you its the styling. if you are asking for data in terms of trading Victory for Indians its about 10%, Now How would I know? I simply asked the biggest dealers in New England. Next is HD at about 18% comprised of older HD mostly or second HD as a trade in, as it was implied that the majority of HD riders had 2 of them and traded one in to have both the Indian and HD.
The rest is mixed from various Bikes and long time riders who took time off getting back in.

I didn't say Victory meets or doesn't my needs enough to prevent me from switching , I did however switch a year ago. Why because it didn't meet one particular criteria . That doesn't mean I don't like Victory , I have a special place for them. When they meet my needs or they change I will be back in one. The Vision I demoed came close. Let me know what I can clarify for you if I was not clear? thank you.

What is clear to me is you believe that your opinion is more valid than mine because you spoke to some dealers in New England. The world is bigger than that.
My point is people vote with their wallet. If people are truly unhappy with their bike they will get something else. If you look at this site you will find representative opinions from all over the world. How many threads do you see saying " The Indian is so much better than the Victory I traded it in?"
Granted the people on this site are not average consumer but that further makes my point.

 

[Ironman]

Y'all don't think it's going to be based off one of the designs "leaked" before the release of the Scout? Here are a couple of them:

The Scout looked almost exactly like its drawing. What do y'all think the odds are of the Octane being designed like one of these concept drawings?

I mentioned before when these design exercises were released that they were two different bikes. The drive belt location alone indicates Victory vs. Indian.

 

[98741]

What is clear to me is you believe that your opinion is more valid than mine because you spoke to some dealers in New England. The world is bigger than that.
My point is people vote with their wallet. If people are truly unhappy with their bike they will get something else. If you look at this site you will find representative opinions from all over the world. How many threads do you see saying " The Indian is so much better than the Victory I traded it in?"
Granted the people on this site are not average consumer but that further makes my point.

1-You ask for data I gave it to you UR -un happy,
2- An opinion is just that am opinion, it is my own just like you have your, -UR -unhappy
3-One better than the other is based on Comparing and making a decision based on what you consider better. , I am not interested in an Indian so I personally do not have an interest. But if you want to find out you may consider polling the question. But let me answer it for you, I have tried all of the Polaris other than the slingshot. there are differences to sway you either way, the Indian has a better motor Period wether you like it or not thats fact. So now you want proof? Ok Poll the question and find out.
Looks like have a sore spot for Indian,
I think as soon as I have a different opinion than yours you instantly take offense and become defensive. You saying people vote with their wallet implies they will purchase the cheapest? I would say they will purchase the best for their money..

Ok life goes on now. be happy.

 

[Bujee1]

1-You ask for data I gave it to you UR -un happy,
2- An opinion is just that am opinion, it is my own just like you have your, -UR -unhappy
3-One better than the other is based on Comparing and making a decision based on what you consider better. , I am not interested in an Indian so I personally do not have an interest. But if you want to find out you may consider polling the question. But let me answer it for you, I have tried all of the Polaris other than the slingshot. there are differences to sway you either way, the Indian has a better motor Period wether you like it or not thats fact. So now you want proof? Ok Poll the question and find out.
Looks like have a sore spot for Indian,
I think as soon as I have a different opinion than yours you instantly take offense and become defensive. You saying people vote with their wallet implies they will purchase the cheapest? I would say they will purchase the best for their money..

Ok life goes on now. be happy.

First of all, there is a difference between anecdotal information and data. You should look it up. Second, my happiness is a non issue here.
Third, I agree with you that when people vote with their wallets they go for the best value that meets their needs. Granted, the Indian motor is better than the Vic motor but it isn't great enough to get most to switch. There is more to a bike than the motor if the motor does what it is supposed.
Lastly,
This is my opinion, it is ok to disagree with it, but it is not ok to say that it is incorrect unless you have a citation or reference to support your position.
Thanks for playing.

 

[Keith Grey]

Trading in or not had nothing to do with it. The Indian has a better engine as that's what my post was based on . some are Vic riders some are Indian and Duca riders. And again you are incorrect I have seen many traded going from Victory to Indian. if you like the history of Indian you would tend to migrate to one. I love the history and though I think it's over all a better bike in some areas indian
doesn't do anything for me. the Victory does it for me.

I do not agree that the 111 is a better engine. If I thought it was I would be riding one.

It certainly is much better than the engine it was designed to replace, the HD 103-110 push Rod engine.

With its better tranny (so far), and upgraded electronics, I would have purchased a Chieftain if the engine was actually better. It isn't.

What it is is a very nice pushrod engine that exceeds HDs offerings, but doesn't have the upper RPM, or Torque Curve to be a replacement for a decently cammed and tuned 106/6.

Maybe someday, but not yet. And even then, as long as it has rods, Still not as good as a Freedom motor for upgrades and performance.

 

[Oldman47]

What is clear to me is you believe that your opinion is more valid than mine because you spoke to some dealers in New England. The world is bigger than that.
My point is people vote with their wallet. If people are truly unhappy with their bike they will get something else. If you look at this site you will find representative opinions from all over the world. How many threads do you see saying " The Indian is so much better than the Victory I traded it in?"
Granted the people on this site are not average consumer but that further makes my point.

Actually, if you go back to when the Indians first came on the scene, there were lots of posts like that. Lots of the folks here at the time made that trade but it was a short lived phenomenon. After that short fad-like move, it was all over and things went back to normal.