[Keith Grey]

I agree with those who see a liquid cooled Small cruiser being added to the Vic line up. No matter what all the forum geniuses said about not selling well, it killed it for Indian w/ Scout and would do the same for Vic.

OTOH, if it comes in much over $12k it better be a Hammer/Vegas replacement with a large engine or it will not do as well as Scout.

Scout hit a perfect storm of tech, price point, and size.

Any bigger/$$$$ and Vic would need to be premiering its new replacement power plant for all models.

 

[Keith Grey]

I hope that we do see a Vic based off the Scout, call it the Anti-Christ for all I care... I just don't think we will. No spy picks, no drawings, nada...

I hope I'm wrong but I would bet that the Octane is with the Water-Cooled Vision.

Personally, I believe whatever the Octane became will be revealed this Winter and the water cooled 2 cyl power train will be the baby brother to the future Victory Powerplant.

Why not? They still sell Indian 111 if folks just got to have an air cooled V-Twin, and it lets them morph Vic into the real performance/ tech side of the house.

 

[Keith Grey]

Who posted the disagree and what part are they disagreeing with?

MDAllen,,,,

Sorry Watertown! I broke under interrogation,,,,

 

[Keith Grey]

Thanks as I suspected, but lost the trail somewhere, now to figure what part and It was, it is obviously the oil part. Damn, hate to go hunting for the clip explaining the oil reduction logic... Guess he just likes the air principle.

You are released as a principle as you clearly self disclosed knowledge and open for reward from X-stoppers...

Snitches get stitches!!!! but I'll take the 30 pieces of silver,,,,,,

 

[Keith Grey]

The Scout has ONE thing the Octane will never have, the word "Indian" on the tank. That alone was a huge driver of Scout sales IMO. Remember all of the spy shots and breathless articles about the "new liquid cooled Victory" that became the Scout? Lack of confidence in Victory to be able to represent the new bike strongly enough?

I've often wondered how Victorys would sell if they had "Indian" on the tank...

True. And as a former Pirate I would say that is significant.

BUT, to the majority of the motorcycle market, that do not ride HD, that "Tradition & Heritage" marketing non-sense might as well be ducks quacking.

Time will tell, but I see 2 possible paths for Vic:

• New, smaller cruiser, water cooled, higher tech as precursor to an all water cooled line up
• Large, 1800cc or better, water cooled, replacement for the 106/6 boldly launched for one model (p.o.c.)

Management Teams being Group think in nature, I still think the former is very likely, the latter less so

Jmtc

 

[Keith Grey]

Yes thank you for that I meant Polaris as a company has made great progress in the last five years not just victory. Victory is obviously stepping back and taking a new approach. Indian saved victory in my opinion. Look at the traffic their stores have created with the victory lineup also included in those stores.

Actually ,Victory has shown enough growth over the last 10 years to afford Polaris the Luxury of saving Indian from it's Kings Mountain kidnappers.

Now, everyone who owns an Indian just say, "THANK YOU CROSS COUNTRY AND CROSS ROADS OWNERS!" because without them, your 111" bikes probably wouldn't exist, and the water-cooled Scout would probably be the new Vegas.

 

[Keith Grey]

Trading in or not had nothing to do with it. The Indian has a better engine as that's what my post was based on . some are Vic riders some are Indian and Duca riders. And again you are incorrect I have seen many traded going from Victory to Indian. if you like the history of Indian you would tend to migrate to one. I love the history and though I think it's over all a better bike in some areas indian
doesn't do anything for me. the Victory does it for me.

I do not agree that the 111 is a better engine. If I thought it was I would be riding one.

It certainly is much better than the engine it was designed to replace, the HD 103-110 push Rod engine.

With its better tranny (so far), and upgraded electronics, I would have purchased a Chieftain if the engine was actually better. It isn't.

What it is is a very nice pushrod engine that exceeds HDs offerings, but doesn't have the upper RPM, or Torque Curve to be a replacement for a decently cammed and tuned 106/6.

Maybe someday, but not yet. And even then, as long as it has rods, Still not as good as a Freedom motor for upgrades and performance.

 

[Keith Grey]

Did you notice Harley FINALLY updated the suspension on the Sportster line? Competition is a wonderful thing...usually. Not sure about a company spending the money to design, produce, market, and provide a distribution network for a model that is in direct competition with another model it sells. Seems like a fairly schizophrenic management decision to me.

Indian did well with starter bike, guarantee Vic tries it sooner or later. Different customer base should be enough separation, but who knows? HD made a mint out of being their own competition.

 

[Keith Grey]

One of the many reasons HD survives, and bikes like the Wing keep on selling is because they are not throw away bikes.
Todays society wants something new everyday. They need to keep up with the Joneses or Kardashians.
I am happy with my "old stuff". I am all for minor upgrades or fixes, but it is nice to be able to get parts and doo dads for my 1974 HD, my 68 Ford.
I absolutely love to drive my old truck around, its reliable, looks good, comfortable, fairly economical. That's what I want in a motorcycle.
I would be happy to be riding my Vision 20-30 years from now. And when the youngsters see it, they would say "Now that's a real bike, back when America meant something".

As I look back at what I just wrote all I really had to say is.....
"I want a motorcycle that is like my old truck".

Lol, see if you can get your hands on an HD Fatboy then, mine rode like an old truck.

 

[Keith Grey]

What bike of their's competes with another? If I had to make that comparison, the closest two I can think of are the two VSRCs, but they hardly sell any of those anyway. And the Muscle has quite a bit more of a clam shell riding position.

First, 17 variations on a Dyna or Softail set up seems counterintuitive for a company that also sells customization

VRods vs every other bike they have except touring

Street glide vs Electra-glide

Bottom line, I just do not believe the Indian Scout and the coming Vic water cooled bike are competing with each other the way HD does with itself.

The demand for scout is high enough to tolerate a Vic of similar stature.

Time will tell

 

[Keith Grey]

You make a reasonable point there, but then so did Vic when they sold a Judge, a Boardwalk, a Vegas, a Hammer, a Gunner, a Highball, and a Jackpot. From an experienced rider standpoint, yeah, we know with enough money we can make anything with any of them, but they all had styles to win over some demographic. Me thinks the "Indian" badge does most of the talking these days.

I don't see that one at all. There is nothing about a Vrod that evokes a "wild outlaw gang guy" image. Go check out the Harley forum. The threads with all the numbers are the ones about black bikes that emulate things they saw on SOA.

Suspensionless bar hopper that makes you look like a rider at the bar vs Posh two up highway mile eater?

The demand for the Scout is enough to make Harley spend a couple bucks to make their Sportsters half way decent. It will be enough to make Vic go begging...

LOL, I would have used Vic as the example with the Vegas frame, but Vic doesn't have a customization revenue stream worth talking about, so they are 99% all in on the sale and normal maintenance.

HD actually makes bank on upgrading and customizing, so multiple variations seem counterintuitive, yet it works.