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notaharley

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Came across this new thread as I was perusing the Indian forum---

https://www.indianmotorcycles.net/threads/a-116-i-built.291522/
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I thought the difference in the connecting rods was amazing!

What does a big bore Victory put out? Does the Vic engine keep the stock rods?
My 116 Hammer put out 130hp / 145tq ....bottom end stock.
Added the Supercharger to that 209hp / 179tq ....bottom end still stock.
Ran the bike for 20k miles like this with no issues .

Once I went above the 200hp mark ....Lloyd upgraded the bottom end with the beefier rods ...

Now bike is 252hp / 208tq .

Peter
 
I don't have a Facebook account (since the spring) but I am still able to see this post. Information for those who don't have Facebook.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Yeah, there is some heavy-handed moderator there that keeps deleting my stuff. Says I have to pay to show such things. Here is a synopsis if you can see Facebook: The Runway Performance Indian Motorcycles
Sorry about that--

After it dissapeared, I was afraid someone was stealing pix and posting them as their own.

How do you like working on the Indian engine vs the Victory engine?

Would you mind comparing the two from your perspective as a builder??

I'd love to hear your take on Polaris's two big twins from your vantage point. I think the other meatheads would too.
***edit***
Spellcorrect changed "gearheads" to "meatheads"
Maybe it knows something I don't
 
It was a fun project. The first time I've ever pulled an engine out of an Indian, first time getting it down past the cams. Turns out I really got an intimate look at the engine because we needed to split the cases to access the rods for an upgrade.
In the end it reminded me of my time in a multi-line Japanese bike shop: different, but the same. It'd be like working on Kawi's and Suzuki's. Both are world-class quality engines that are similar, but with certain things that make them unique. In the case of the Indian it was the push rods. It was kind of strange to work on something with traditional style lifters, pushrods and rocker arms. It felt like I was back in high school rebuilding a 350 Chevy!

The Indian is as well engineered as the Vic's are - I mean they are world-class quality stuff. Not "small batch in a over-glorified garage" feel that I get from a Gilroy Indian, a 99 Vic, or a 70's-80's Harley. Well engineered, great quality in stock form. The only thing that blows about the Indian's is that they are just NOT a performance machine. Where the Vics are overbuilt, ready to accept another 50hp easily, the Indian struggles to break 100hp. It's sad really. The engine is built great if you never go past a simple intake, pipe, cam combination. On my dyno that'll bring low to mid 90's for HP. Other than that you'll have to upgrade EVERYTHING in order to get to the next power level. We made fun of Harley's for years for this type of dismal performance. Bummer to see them hobble a freshly designed engine to meet a certain look and sound. But, like I said, it's a high quality, reliable machine with the simple mods, just don't try to get it to meet the performance of a Vic, or I'm sad to say, even the Harley M8.
 
What are your thoughts of the dealer installed 116 upgrade ?
Great post by the way. Always love reading everything you guys do. Ole slick is coming up there. It’s on the list.
Oh yeah back to the 116 question.
Read about your upgrade of the dealer upgrade but just wondering if the dealer stuff is worth the money.
Or just cams intake and exhaust ? For an Injin I’d be good with that. I can alway jump on my VIc. Lol.
 
I'm certainly no performance expert but the few stock 111's I have ridden they seemed to have a lot of grunt but fell flat in the long run. Looks like it takes considerably more labor and expense to build a performance Indian since the rods have to be replaced only to have the torque on par with a Victory 116 but still flat in the HP department.

It will be interesting to hear the seat of the pants impressions of those familiar with both.
 
Like Vic Builder says these Indian's are not built for performance. 116 Vic will kill a 116 Indian all day long. Heck a cammed 106 will probably out run a 116 Indian. Fuelmoto has a 124 kit coming out for the HD 107 next week and a 128 kit coming for the 114/117 motors. Both of these kits make hugh hp and tq. Longevity to be determined. Polaris had a performance line in the making with Victory but decided to go the total opposite direction with Indian. I guess you could argue there new FTR is a performance machine but its not a cruiser or touring bike.
 
All done. What a friggin beast! Red lines represent the average Indian 111 "Stage 1" setup. The Green lines are an average aftermarket cam/intake/pipe combination on your everyday 111". Then the Bue lines are the lines for our maximized 116" build! Holy Hell, look at that torque! She's an animal, but you wouldn't know it. It fires right up, settles into a nice, quiet idle, putts around silky smooth, and then spins that poor rear tire with ease when you lay into the throttle! All with pump gas 91 octane and simple, well chosen parts. I know our customer is going to find it was well worth the extra time and money to do this build the right way!

Image
 
Once again we see how Polaris screwed the pooch by shutting down Victory. If downsizing was needed they could have had the best of both worlds by merging Victory into Indian. The smart money would have decreased the number of Vic's under Indian made so in time they would be worth more due to supply and demand.

Rylan; thank you for your informative and useful comparison between the various brands and the Indian motor. Always good to hear from a pro without bias. Just the unvarnished truth as you see it.
 
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