Since there are a few VOG Members who enjoy debating politics, and since the 2012 Election Campaign has now officially started, I thought it best to start this SINGLE thread so that the Members can voice their opinions without the need to start multiple Political Threads. It might be interesting to use this thread as a documentary on the feelings of motorcycle riders towards the political race as it develops and later check back on it to see what has changed. It will also be interesting to use this as a documentary of various political promises and see if the candidates change their promises midstream. I'll kick off this thread with a segment from MSNBC about "what could be the first Billion Dollar Campaign in US History":
The Official 2012 Election Thread
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Andy
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Speaking of McCain, did you see his rant about the "ugly Canadian bus" President Obama is riding around in? We definitely made the correct choice choosing Obama over McCain. McCain is now certifiably having severe dementia issues. He seems to forget that he rode around in a bus made by the same company, and so did President Bush. I watched the debate last night and kept having to check if it was on Comedy Channel or Onion News. No current republican Presidential candidates are ready for prime-time.
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Yeah, the debate was pretty bad. I always try to judge individuals on thier merits and debates usually don't figure in. That said they sucked. I feel any one of them could do the job as good or better than the guy sitting in office now. I mean really...how could you do worse? The sad thing is the chances of Obama being re-elected are good and that will only speed up the decline of our country, not entirely because of Obama but a combination of a totally inneffective Congress that can't get anything done, a group of advisors that can't find their asses with both hands AND a man in the job that is too far left, too liberal and much to inexperienced and incompetent. The wrecking ball just got bigger. Sorry Biggie, I know the man excites you a great deal, I just can't figure out why. For the sake of our country i would love to eat crow and be wrong but I doubt it. He is the great divider.
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A closer look @ the folks Biggie, Obama & Pelosi support. Doug Schoen (Bill Clinton's pollster), had his firm interview the OWS folks - here is his revealing article - in the Wall Street Journal. Doug Schoen concludes: Obama is making a critical error embracing OWS. (Keep doing it) 1. The OWS movement is dangerously out of touch with the broad mass of American people. 2. The OWS folks are deeply committed to radical, left wing policies. 3. OWS is not ideologically diverse. 4. OWS believes in radical redistribution of wealth. 5. OWS believes in civil disobedience. 6. 31% believe in violence to advance their agenda. 7. Vast majority of OWS protestors ARE employed. 8. 15% of OWS protestors not employed. 9. Overwhelming majority of OWS folks supported Obama in 2008. 10. 51% of OWS disapprove of Obama now. 11. 44% of OWS say they will vote to re-elect Obama in 2012. 12. A few items bind the OWS protestors together: A. Deep commitment to left wing policies. B. Opposition to free market capitalism. C. Support for radical redistribution of wealth. D. Intense regulation of the private sector. E. Protectionist policies to keep jobs from going overseas. F. 65% of OWS say the Govt. has a moral obligation to provide affordable health care, college education & secure retirement - No Matter the Cost. 13. 77% OWS support raising taxes on the wealthy. 14. 58% OWS oppose raising taxes on everybody - "get them, not me." 15. Basically 50/50 on whether bailouts were necessary. 16. OWS folks are disillusioned with the capitalistic system - identify as progressives (liberals) "Polling the Occupy Wall Street Crowd" October 18, 2011 In interviews, protesters show that they are leftists out of step with most American voters. Yet Democrats are embracing them anyway. By DOUGLAS SCHOEN President Obama and the Democratic leadership are making a critical error in embracing the Occupy Wall Street movement-and it may cost them the 2012 election. Last week, senior White House adviser David Plouffe said that "the protests you're seeing are the same conversations people are having in living rooms and kitchens all across America. . . . People are frustrated by an economy that does not reward hard work and responsibility, where Wall Street and Main Street don't seem to play by the same set of rules." Nancy Pelosi and others have echoed the message. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204479504576637082965745362.html
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If you want to know why Biggie supports Obama - look @ the items listed in Post #344. Those people & their agenda are supported by both Obama & Biggie. There's your answer. Pretty simple. Their agenda is not good for America. I disagree with you about Obama's chance to get re-elected. There is a chance - but not a good one. Today, Obama's Presidential job approval - "Daily Presidential Tracking Poll" Wednesday, October 19, 2011 "The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday shows that 19% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Forty-one percent (41%) Strongly Disapprove, giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -22."clif02 said:
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I read the article in post #344 yesterday, and there is nothing there that surprised me. The one that absolutley gets my blood boiling though, is point "F" (65% of OWS say the Govt. has a moral obligation to provide affordable health care, college education & secure retirement - No Matter the Cost). Think about that for more than 5 seconds.......if this does not explain the ignorance of the socially unmotivated I don't know what does. My wife and I had this talk just 2 days ago discussing the debt burden and our "social obligations". Can anyone please explain to me why "WE, the people" (that would be our Government) has a social and moral obligation to take care of anyone?.....I so badly wanted to use about 50 ?'s there but I promised Biggie I wouldn't.
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Point by point; Health care-we are the only major democratic country that doesn't. We spend more on health care per capita than any of the other countries (Pre The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act). College education-when I was younger, there were several States that offered free college to residents. California and New York being two of them. A high school education isn't worth sh!t anymore if you want a middle class lifestyle. If we continue to support our inadequate education system, then we deserve to collapses as a nation. A secure retirement-I read that as keep your hands off of my Social Security and Medi-Care. This used to be a TEA party demand. (Don't kill Grandma) I have no problem with those goals. You can raise my taxes 5% to support these goals.phoenix9 said:
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It's true California use to offer free Junior College education to all California, tax paying residents. Then the incredible influx of illegals & drain on the govt. programs & entitlements went through the roof. (Medical clinics, hospital emergency room care, schools, police, jails, state prisons, 911 calls to fire for EMS, etc.) The a growing number of cities and the State of California are bankrupt - it's very relevant - the demands placed on the public coffers are overwhelming. Now the OWS crowd wants more. Schoen's poll is a very nice snap shot of the liberal/socialist agenda & desires - now the democratic agenda embraced by Obama.bigfoot said:
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Here's one of the reasons California is bankruupt and does not provide affordable Junior College to the citizens of California anymore. The liberal agenda has ruined the state. "Illegal Immigration Costs California Over Ten Billion Annually" State's "cheap labor" costs average household $1,183 a year In hosting America's largest population of illegal immigrants, California bears a huge cost to provide basic human services for this fast growing, low-income segment of its population. A new study from the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) examines the costs of education, health care and incarceration of illegal aliens, and concludes that the costs to Californians is $10.5 billion per year. Among the key finding of the report are that the state's already struggling K-12 education system spends approximately $7.7 billion a year to school the children of illegal aliens who now constitute 15 percent of the student body. Another $1.4 billion of the taxpayers' money goes toward providing health care to illegal aliens and their families, the same amount that is spent incarcerating illegal aliens criminals.
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Biggie, The part of the statement that "made my blood boil" was the "No matter the cost"....this is the part of the conversation where Liberals disappear from the conversation. Now, your last sentence tries to cover that up, but I have 2 questions for you: 1-Your 5% tax increase won't even come close to funding these items. It will need to be more like 27%. Are you willing to give an extra 27%? 2-Are you willing to have the 47% who currently do not pay taxes give up this kind of household income to pay for these things? ....that sound you hear is all your liberal friends leaving the building right now....but I'm sure they'll be back when the topic of actually "paying" for things has subsided. OWS is about getting others to pay for the good of all....cough-communism-cough......bigfoot said:
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The Free College for it's residents in New York ended in the 1970's. It would be simply ludicrous to infer that something that happened 30-40 years ago would have any relevance to today's New York revenue shortage caused by the banking/Wall Street crisis of 2007.dsjr70 said:
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Isn't that the same thing Mr. Obama campaigned for...to end Putocracy? Then spent nearly a billion dollars getting elected? How's that working out for us? While I don't see any "Rockefellers" running for President, it sure would be nice to have someone in Office who has experience running a business. Not to bash our President (after all, he is OUR President), but how in the world can anyone expect someone who has never had a job to create jobs?bigfoot said:
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I don't understand where you get the 27% in additional taxes from? References please. If you would give the poor the choice of paying "X" amount of Federal Taxes so that they would have Health Care, Free college eductions for their children, and Social Security for all as we know it, they would buy into the deal. I've shown before that raising Social Security's top taxation level to $120,000 from it's present $107,000 would fully fund it for at least 40 additional years. That is not such a big leap. It certainly beats the HELL out of what the 999 plan would do to the poor. I don't really have a dog in this fight because I have UNION provided health care and pension, and my children are both done with their 4 years of college.phoenix9 said:
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