Since there are a few VOG Members who enjoy debating politics, and since the 2012 Election Campaign has now officially started, I thought it best to start this SINGLE thread so that the Members can voice their opinions without the need to start multiple Political Threads. It might be interesting to use this thread as a documentary on the feelings of motorcycle riders towards the political race as it develops and later check back on it to see what has changed. It will also be interesting to use this as a documentary of various political promises and see if the candidates change their promises midstream. I'll kick off this thread with a segment from MSNBC about "what could be the first Billion Dollar Campaign in US History":
The Official 2012 Election Thread
Andy
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Since there are a few VOG Members who enjoy debating politics, and since the 2012 Election Campaign has now officially started, I thought it best to start this SINGLE thread so that the Members can voice their opinions without the need to start multiple Political Threads. It might be interesting to use this thread as a documentary on the feelings of motorcycle riders towards the political race as it develops and later check back on it to see what has changed. It will also be interesting to use this as a documentary of various political promises and see if the candidates change their promises midstream. I'll kick off this thread with a segment from MSNBC about "what could be the first Billion Dollar Campaign in US History":
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Yeah,I got through about 3 minutes of it and realized why I can't stand MSNBC. For me, being a motorcycle rider has little to do with how I vote. I have higher political priorities that don't tie directly into motorcycling. That being said, I can't wait to see how Obama campaigns on broken promises, failed economic policies, blaming everyone but himself, and dragging our country down into ruin (though we've been headed that way for a while, he's speeding it up).
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Nacho wrote; That being said, I can't wait to see how Obama campaigns on broken promises, failed economic policies, blaming everyone but himself, and dragging our country down into ruin (though we've been headed that way for a while, he's speeding it up). You paint with a very broad brush. Specifics please.
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I am pretty sure about one of them. She probably has no chance being as he she is from Alaska golly darn. :10500: Now is not the time for them to run a new face. Newt? Good ole Huck? Romney won't run IMHO. His states health care is the kiss of death for Republicans.
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Why not start a fantasy political debate.We can choose two members and they can debate on questions given by the forum members.It won't work if it's not taken seriously. Since i do read all of the political threads i know who my two candidates would be.If anyone thinks this is a good idea then post your candidates. It could be interesting. Just my two bucks, Scott,
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I usually avoid these political threads completely as there are far better places for intelligent debate on the subject, and this is for motorcycles (IMO). However, I peeked inside this thread and was ready to run when I saw your comment and simply couldn't believe what I read. Are you really so clueless as to suggest Obama (or any other politician) hasn't routinely said one thing and done another? Do you really think there is no evidence of Obama promising many things and taking many positions during his campaign to get elected and doing nothing or the opposite? Really? I know I will regret this, but here is a 'short' list of his promises - NONE of which has been fulfilled. And please don't tell me the reason was opposition on the right, preventing him from succeeding. As you should know, he has had a super majority for most of his presidency and in many cases he just didn't even attempt to do what he promised, opposition notwithstanding. Also, for a nice video summation of Obama's promise breaking and policy reversals, even embracing the very Bush policies he self-righteously campaigned against, see this site for LIBERAL Jon Stewart's list of them: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-15-2010/respect-my-authoritah And don't tell me how he's a comedian - listen to the poinst made by this big Obama supporter. SO here's a little list of "promises" by Mr. Obama for all to consider: Promise: Increase capital gains and dividends taxes from 15 to 20 percent for those making more than $250,000 (couples) or $200,000 Promise: Introduce a comprehensive immigration bill in the first year "I cannot guarantee that it is going to be in the first 100 days. But what I can guarantee is that we will have in the first year an immigration bill that I strongly support and that I'm promoting. Broken Promise: No more renditions and no more suspension of Habeus Corpus which is considered contrary to Supreme Court rulings, especially for the detainees in Baghram: Broken Promise: Repeal the Bush tax cuts for those making more than $250,000 (couples) or $200,000 Broken Promise: End income tax for seniors making less than $50,000 "Will eliminate all income taxation of seniors making less than $50,000 per year. This will eliminate taxes for 7 million seniors Broken Promise: Allow five days of public comment before signing bills To reduce bills rushed through Congress and to the president before the public has the opportunity to review them, Obama "will not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days." Broken Promise: Eliminate the use of Executive Signing Statements Broken Promise: Negotiate health care reform in public sessions televised on C-SPAN To achieve health care reform, "I'm going to have all the negotiations around a big table. We'll have doctors and nurses and hospital administrators. Insurance companies, drug companies -- they'll get a seat at the table, they just won't be able to buy every chair. But what we will do is, we'll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN, so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies. Shamelessly broken and takes an award in private for transparency. Promise: Allow imported prescription drugs "Allow Americans to buy their medicines from other developed countries if the drugs are safe and prices are lower outside the U.S. Broken Promise: Tougher rules against revolving door for lobbyists and former officials "No political appointees in an Obama-Biden administration will be permitted to work on regulations or contracts directly and substantially related to their prior employer for two years. And no political appointee will be able to lobby the executive branch after leaving government service during the remainder of the administration." Broken Promise: Reduce earmarks to 1994 levels "Barack Obama is committed to returning earmarks to less than $7.8 billion a year, the level they were at before 1994." Broken Promise: No family making less than $250,000 will see "any form of tax increase." "I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes." Broken Promise: Enact windfall profits tax for oil companies "Will require oil companies to take a reasonable share of their record-breaking windfall profits and use it to provide direct relief worth $500 for an individual and $1,000 for a married couple. The relief would be delivered as quickly as possible to help families cope with the rising price of gasoline, food and other necessities. The rebates would be fully paid for with five years of a windfall profits tax on record oil company profits." As of March 2011: Three budget plans, no proposals for windfall profits tax - Broken Close the Guantanamo Bay Detention Center The Promise: "As president, Barack Obama will close the detention facility at Guantanamo." As of April 2011: Obama announces changes to Guantanamo detention policy and detainees will be tried there. BROKEN Create a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners The Promise: Create a $10 billion fund to help homeowners refinance or sell their homes. "The Fund will not help speculators, people who bought vacation homes or people who falsely represented their incomes." As of March 2011: Foreclosure prevention fund a "colossal failure," special inspector says BROKEN Forbid companies in bankruptcy from giving executives bonuses The Promise: "Protect the jobs and benefits of workers and retirees when corporations file for bankruptcy by telling companies that they cannot issue bonuses for executives during bankruptcy while their workers watch their pensions disappear." No sign of action on promise about executive bonuses - BROKENbigfoot said:
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Can we do 3? Well since it is a fantasy why not have a third Party? I nominate the following: Representing the Rush Right - Our favorite son from Mayberry, the new and improved version 2.0 - Shawn! Representing the Pelosi Left - The one with the infamous advatar, hailing from parts unknown Ohio and representing old school unions - Biggie Representing mainstream America - and speaking for the radical, weird people that believe in the Constitution, hailing from San Antonio, Texas SATXRON! (insert applause) Lastly, our moderator for this event should be no other then Mark "I am glad to be out of Chicago" Phoniex!!!scottb said:
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You know Andy - the "Hillary question" is very interesting. There are Democratic "heavy hitters" that would love to see Hillary run against Obama. A good number of folks that voted for Obama are have "buyers remorse" and wishing Hillary was in the Oval Office. She certainly would not have made the amateur mistakes Obama has made. I don't think Hillary would be happy as VP to someone she is certainly better qualified than. If she jumps in - I think it will be for all the marbles. The decision to run against a sitting President - in your own party - that's a very tough decision. As time gets closer - I think the drum beats for Hillary to run will intensify. I suspect Hillary won't do it - even though she would like to. There is no question Hillary's skill set & decision making ability is superior to Obama's. But, I think the "window of opportunity" may have closed on her. It's too bad. I think Hillary would have made a fine President.Andy said:
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