[ETrider]

I am one that too heard it and it was based on a media thing that Victory was to develop a new engine with Harley's released water-cools. Then Crickets.

After the release of the original Indian series, still no hint of Scout. The reason I was paying attention I was about acquire my Vic and was trying to learn more with Indian, a possibility. I just knew I didn't want a Harley and was checking out what was available.

So there may be truth in regards to the engine being patent applied under the name of Polaris and thus assumed it was for a Victory...

Polaris Registers Design for Liquid-Cooled Victory - Motorcycle ...
blog.motorcycle.com › 2014/04/21 › pol...
Apr 21, 2014 - Polaris Industries has registered a design for what ... new Victory cruiser powered by a liquid-cooled V-Twin engine. ... 042114-victory-liquid-cooled-design-patent- 04 ... may end up being used for this new liquid-cooled model.

I am not buying the theory that the Scout was supposed to originally be a Vic. I think what happened is people (even in the press) read that Polaris registered this design, looked at the drawings, considered that it was water-cooled (therefore not a "heritage" bike), and concluded it must be a Vic. When it was released as an Indian, Vic riders felt betrayed.

I'm with you, Teflon, I think the design of the Scout shows too much prior planning.

Also, the first sentence of the article sited above reads:

"Polaris Industries has registered a design patent with the European Union for what appears to be a new liquid-cooled Victory motorcycle." (emphasis mine)

I've always read that to mean that the "appears to be" refers to both the "liquid-cooled" and "Victory" part of the sentence. Others may see it as only pertaining to the "liquid-cooled" part.

Curiosity also leads me to want to know what REALLY happened here...hmmm.

 

[coffeedave]

It was a Victory. Polaris gave it to Indian. The Polaris guys just smile and say naaahh when you ask them but just look at it. It's a Victory with fake pushrods on the engine. Since all the good stuff they put on Indian could have been put on Victory why not steal the entry level bike and ride the wave of success they were realizing with Indian. They ****ed Victory for the sake of Indian. No doubt about it. It sure as hell doesn't resemble the Scouts of the past but it more than resembles a Victory.

 

[Boarhunter]

Is it too late in this discussion to ask what difference it makes at this point what the bike was "supposed to be"? As of the moment and likely hereafter, the Scout is an Indian and not a Victory. And all the debate in the world will not change that fact.

BOARHUNTER

 

[Flyboy]

It was a Victory. Polaris gave it to Indian. The Polaris guys just smile and say naaahh when you ask them but just look at it. It's a Victory with fake pushrods on the engine. Since all the good stuff they put on Indian could have been put on Victory why not steal the entry level bike and ride the wave of success they were realizing with Indian. They ****ed Victory for the sake of Indian. No doubt about it. It sure as hell doesn't resemble the Scouts of the past but it more than resembles a Victory.

Not to belabor the point, but Victory will benefit from the situation by having a refined and better product. An example is one of the things that I do not like is the fake pushrods and actually that alone would keep me from purchase. Now make it real and yes the second water cooled will be at least cool...

 

[Teflon Mike]

It was a Victory. Polaris gave it to Indian. The Polaris guys just smile and say naaahh when you ask them but just look at it. It's a Victory with fake pushrods on the engine. Since all the good stuff they put on Indian could have been put on Victory why not steal the entry level bike and ride the wave of success they were realizing with Indian. They ****ed Victory for the sake of Indian. No doubt about it. It sure as hell doesn't resemble the Scouts of the past but it more than resembles a Victory.

Ok, let's say you're right, and Indian stole the Vic model and badged it scout. What will your angle be if victory comes out with the ignition sporting a beefed up scout platform? They still getting the shaft from Polaris? I don't see it. Polaris is dumping gobs of cash into victory. They literally just released an electric bike. I just don't see any issue, in fact I see them backing their company vision with Indian being heratige oriented and victory being performance oriented. It's exciting and I can't wait to see what they have planned for both Vic and Indian.

 

[Teflon Mike]

Is it too late in this discussion to ask what difference it makes at this point what the bike was "supposed to be"? As of the moment and likely hereafter, the Scout is an Indian and not a Victory. And all the debate in the world will not change that fact.

BOARHUNTER

I feel like coffeedave feels like the brand is on its way out and to prove his point, he's using the unsubstantiated rumor that Polaris had plans for a new Vic bike, but instead gave it to Indian. You're right, it doesn't make a difference and now we have an Indian scout and we have victory doing whatever the hell they're doing trying to stay on the cutting edge of what they feel is performance.

I guess some hold it against Vic, or Indian, or Polaris that Indian (the brand new acquisition they've spent hundreds of million of dollars on reviving) got dibs on a platform. Whereas me personally, am just curious to know if that was the case and why it should reflect poorly on any party, given that we have an Indian scout and more than likely an upgraded version for the victory line.

 

[robsvision]

I believe the bean counters suggested that putting Indian on the the tank would double sales of that bike.
Think about it.
Who is the head of the Motorcycle division of Polaris ?
I bet he made the decision based on what name would sell more bikes.
And I think everyone he spoke to agreed..............

 

[ETrider]

It was a Victory. Polaris gave it to Indian.

That may very well be the case, but please forgive me for requiring more than a "because I said so and I'm all butt-hurt so it must be true" argument as proof positive.

No doubt about it. It sure as hell doesn't resemble the Scouts of the past but it more than resembles a Victory.

I disagree. I think the Scout is a modern take on a classic model. It's a "what would the modern Scout look like if Indian had never gone out of business" take on design. In fact, in an article from 2014 (2015 Indian Scout Comparison - Motorcycle USA), it was said of Indian's approach that, "It wanted something that paid tribute to Scouts of the past, without living in the past. Indian envisioned what the Scout would have become, had it been given the chance to evolve without an almost 70-year gap in production."

I don't mean to offend, but your last two sentences reminded me of this scene from the movie O Brother, Where Art Thou?:

 

[Muzza]

There's a mini doco that I've been searching for to post that gets played at my factory dealership.. It covers everything from the history to the design of the scout and interviews all the major players throughout the whole process I.e. filmed during the initial design phase through to release....

The scout was never a Vic!!!!!

 

[Teflon Mike]

There's a mini doco that I've been searching for to post that gets played at my factory dealership.. It covers everything from the history to the design of the scout and interviews all the major players throughout the whole process I.e. filmed during the initial design phase through to release....

The scout was never a Vic!!!!!

I'd love to see it

 

[ETrider]

There's a mini doco that I've been searching for to post that gets played at my factory dealership.. It covers everything from the history to the design of the scout and interviews all the major players throughout the whole process I.e. filmed during the initial design phase through to release....

Is this it?

 

[2edgesword]

The ultimate success or failure of the Scout isn't going to be determined in one year. The fact that Indian is now going to introduced a downsized version indicates to me that there may have been marketing issues (price point to high) that, even with the much better HP/TQ numbers over the mid-range models (Honda Shadow, Iron 883, Yamaha Bolt, etc.) from other manufacturers, has Polaris thinking the future for the bike is in the $7K ~ $8K range versus $11K ~ $12K.

 

[Muzza]

Is this it?

Same guys but a different flick...

A scout is a scout without a doubt!!!!

 

[Ghostrider25]

I would say that you can safely take the word failure out of the equation for the Scout. The bike is a hit. Does it have shortcomings? Yes it does. The suspensions is average at best. And it's small; but that is my problem, not the bike's!

But make no mistake, this bike is selling well, and will most likely continue to do so. So it is appropriate that the Scout is in the Indian family. It's a good fit. All this does is free up Vic to come to market with a bike that is bigger, more powerful, more modern in design and better handling. Which I believe is the plan. We will just have to wait for 2017 to see it. And that is OK. Far better to take your time and do it right than rush things and fail.

 

[Ghostrider25]

Same guys but a different flick...

A scout is a scout without a doubt!!!!

I will not ride it on the plains, I will not ride it next to trains, on this bike I will not sit, for I don't like it... 'cause I don't fit!

 

[Muzza]

I would say that you can safely take the word failure out of the equation for the Scout. The bike is a hit. Does it have shortcomings? Yes it does. The suspensions is average at best. And it's small; but that is my problem, not the bike's!

But make no mistake, this bike is selling well, and will most likely continue to do so. So it is appropriate that the Scout is in the Indian family. It's a good fit. All this does is free up Vic to come to market with a bike that is bigger, more powerful, more modern in design and better handling. Which I believe is the plan. We will just have to wait for 2017 to see it. And that is OK. Far better to take your time and do it right than rush things and fail.

With the concept bikes being released last year I'm sure we were told that the production version would be unveiled this year?? 2017 is for ma Vic to unvail some more goodies....

 

[Ghostrider25]

With the concept bikes being released last year I'm sure we were told that the production version would be unveiled this year?? 2017 is for ma Vic to unvail some more goodies....

Well, it's certainly possible! We did just start 2016, so they have plenty of time to roll out some stuff this year. For whatever reason my internal forecasting mechanism is placing more emphasis on 2017. Of course there is always that Grey area where a late 2016 release would in fact be classified as a 2017 model. But that may be considered

LOL!!

 

[SubDude]

The ultimate success or failure of the Scout isn't going to be determined in one year. The fact that Indian is now going to introduced a downsized version indicates to me that there may have been marketing issues (price point to high) that, even with the much better HP/TQ numbers over the mid-range models (Honda Shadow, Iron 883, Yamaha Bolt, etc.) from other manufacturers, has Polaris thinking the future for the bike is in the $7K ~ $8K range versus $11K ~ $12K.

I don't believe it was a marketing issue at all. I think they want people who are looking at $9K price point to consider the Scout sixty. Why ride a 750 street HD when you can have the legend Scout between your thighs. That's what I think.

 

[SubDude]

Well, it's certainly possible! We did just start 2016, so they have plenty of time to roll out some stuff this year. For whatever reason my internal forecasting mechanism is placing more emphasis on 2017. Of course there is always that Grey area where a late 2016 release would in fact be classified as a 2017 model. But that may be considered

LOL!!

Like the 2016 Dark Horse being released March of 2015 right? They could unveil a 2017 at any moment!

 

[poptop]

Oh yeah of little faith ,listen to one of the converted! Patience my friends as we wait for the release 2017 ,will be the year of the Victory,Once agian it's star will shine! Not without a teaser sometimes early to mid 2016!
Be prepared to be totally amazed for I have seen what lays ahead of us all!
Fear not the day is near for what may be ultimately called the revelation of the evelution of Motercycles lays in all of our immediate future!