Ok, I cannot reveal my source, but Victory plans to offer a new, smaller displacement High Ball in early '17 targeting the entry-level rider and this is a pic of the concept bike:

I, for one, am already saving my money to get one as a back-up for my current '15 HB.

BOARHUNTER

 

Ok, I cannot reveal my source, but Victory plans to offer a new, smaller displacement High Ball in early '17 targeting the entry-level rider and this is a pic of the concept bike:

View attachment 12477

I, for one, am already saving my money to get one as a back-up for my current '15 HB.

BOARHUNTER

Awesome, man. Can you get cams for it?!?

As for the whole Indian stealing the Vic concept, I think that bike was always going to be the Scout. The 2 companies have their own plans and development trajectories so I don't think things like this are necessary. I'm no expert, but I am pretty sure that the Scout was a legendary bike back in the day and it was a good move to bring it back. It was a logical follow-up and a pretty nice effort, too.

 

Anyone who thinks that the Scout isn't selling well is dead wrong. Why not add the 60 to the lineup? The original Scout is a rocket on wheels and actually overpowered for a starter bike. The 60 fits that bill perfectly. Now just get something like it to Vic.

 

Coffee Dave talking some sense

 

Well I figured out right away how the 100 , 6 sp like to be run and now it shifts like glass I it purres like a kitten with no noticible lash and it sounds as nasty as I allow it with the control of the trottle! Can, t figure out for the life of me why so many have so many problems! They never were ment to be driven like HD, s there made to be driven like Victories! Thats all there is to it!
Now as to *****! The way I figure it I could give a fat flying Fuuck as Victory and ***** moneys in the end comes out of or goes into the same pot of cash! If one wins so does the other! It, s a great day for all of us when the pot they are filling up is topped up by both and in the end we end up with a more stable company to maintian our product!

 

One thing I find interesting is that Polaris mandates dealers set up a fairly plush Indian environment before bestowing the privilege of selling Indian upon them.

Victorys, on the other hand, are free to mingle among the ATVs, weed wackers, snow mobiles, etc. So I guess Victory is truly the every mans motorcycle...

(Disclaimer - my lawyer advised me to say that this observation is in no way meant to imply Victory has nothing but the brightest of futures, particularly Down Under )

 

There's a mini doco that I've been searching for to post that gets played at my factory dealership.. It covers everything from the history to the design of the scout and interviews all the major players throughout the whole process I.e. filmed during the initial design phase through to release....

The scout was never a Vic!!!!!

 

I'd love to see it

 

Here, this will make it easier for the bar and shield types.. why are there 883 and 1200 Sportsters in HD's lineup? Could it be that they just want to be able to make a more affordable harley for people to ride? Hmm?

 

Obviously HD made a serious marketing mistake with the Sportster. The existence of two models proves it. There can be no other reason!

 

Forgive me fellow VOG members for getting caught up in a cat herding event with a HD troll. I don't know what came over me.

:chair1:

 

I think the writing is on the wall when it comes to the Scout.
The bike magazines gave it a thumbs up.
Yes there are some minor issues, but for the most part every article I read gave resounding compliments on the motor.

I Personaly think it looks great. I don't give Polaris much credit. But they are on a roll with Indian. They have done an amazing job with the bikes.

The roll out of the Scout and then the Scout 60 was a great idea.
And if it was done to kick Harley in the asss based on there entry bikes.......
Well they did it and much more.
Harley's entry bikes arnt even in the same ball park.....

 

In all the reviews I've read the Scout is a fantastic bike but without hard numbers to back-up the superlatives regarding the success of the bike it's all just so much marketing banter. The numbers tell the real story. Without the numbers I have to go with my own personal observations which is I've seen exact one Scout on the road over the last year. Maybe the folks that go to the major bike shows can chime in on their observations.

 

Polaris built Indian to take market share from HD, and succeeded. Victory has always taken its market share from the big bore Jap cruiser, and it will continue to carve that market. Indian may have surprised some in sales numbers, but that was no accident. They put everything the learned in15 years in to that roll out. Victory has also seen a continued growth right along with them. Forward looking design, performance leaning engines, and tech; will define Victory in the coming years. These guys are smart. Look what they have done in the off road market. We will see a re-introduction of Vic this July, and it will take the brand in a more focused, and stronger direction

 

I talked to my wife about the Scout 60
It's all the bike she will ever need and being a bit less expensive makes it even more attractive.
I never thought the Scout was over priced..
But the Scout 60 is 1000 times more appealing then anything Harley has for a beginner bike.
I would be proud to own a Scout 60.
I can't say that about any other starter bike. And that includes the Yamaha bolt and others like it.

I think the 60 was a good move.

 

Was reading a review of the Empulse TT today and part of the conclusion grabbed my attention and I thought it fit in this conversation.

Quote from article:

"Now consider the Gunner Victory's been racing in the Pro Stock classes. Think about the Project 156 bike. Victory's actually competing. What's more American than getting out there and racing hard? Even my beloved H-D hasn't raced seriously in decades. I think (hope!) we're going to see two things: Victory is making a push to become a full-line manufacturer, and Victory is also going to start making some bikes that actually kick a little bit of ass performance-wise.
I've never owned a Vic, and I'm not buying an Empulse. But I love American bikes, and if this is the sporting path Victory is going to take, I'm dying to be a customer. Because if the Empulse gets a guy like me to walk into a showroom - even it it's to buy something else - they can sell but a handful and consider it a raging success."

 

Ok after 11 pages of posts this is what I came up with

 

View attachment 12824 Ok after 11 pages of posts this is what I came up with

Nope. Everything that Victory has ever done, is currently planning, and will ever do, has been covered in a single thread!

 

I still say it's largely about the name and style. Many HD types never "got" Victory. Too modern, "I don't like the swoopy lines", "the engine is ugly", etc. Victory is always going to be an also ran in that market. Enter Indian. Heritage name, heritage looks, to some degree, heritage performance. And the HDers are lapping it up, and acting just like HDers, buying trinkets, gizmos, tee shirts, blahblahblah. It's clear that Victory needs to find a larger, wider market, away from the traditional cruiser/bagger market. Leave that to Indian.

 

Ummm...not to bust up the discussion or anything....but to get back on topic...I was talking with someone the other day who has a long history in the Polaris/Vic/Indian bidness, and we were talking specifically about the amount of space and quality dedicated to the Indian side vs the Vic side. He brought up a few interesting points that helped me understand why things with Vic are the way they are.
He said that regardless of whether he sells 2 Vics or 20 Vics, Polaris allocates him 50 of them per sales year. Period. He also mentioned that for the Victory market, 9 times out of 10 the only sale he's going to make to the customer is the bike itself. The average Vic customer doesn't buy accessories from the dealer, and apparel sales are almost as abysmal. Indian customers are almost completely the polar opposite. Harley customers by a different name, as it were. Shirts, jackets, CHAIRS, for christ's sakes....if it says Indian they want it. Allocation on bikes themselves are at least equal to, if not more than sales demand. The Indian community is a huge part of the way Polaris does business in that regard.
So, having said all that, how can Polaris change things? Even more importantly, why should they? Here's a little bit of my theory....It's well known that in the early days, there was nothing short of a vacuum when it came to parts and accessories. Guys like Jon at Witchdoctors, Coastal Victory, Hot Vic, etc etc etc stepped up from the aftermarket to fill that void. The quality and degree to which they filled that void all but pushed Vic dealers completely out of the picture. I don't think this is a lesson that Polaris suffered lightly, and they are NOT gonna miss the boat this time around on Indian. So, Polaris claims that Victory is going to be the performance side of the equation while Indian will represent the heritage side. The question still remains, do we see Polaris working to change Victory's presence, even within it's own dealerships? Why should they?

We all know just how over priced anything for a Vic is from the dealer. I paid crazy prices for the passenger grab handles and the rack on the trunk was ludicrous .... Have I bought anything else NO... Way over priced....
Wait I lied .... I bought a Victory Jacket with 2 liners, and a Victory brain bucket.

I would have liked to have the CB when they had it listed. It was over priced and didn't work right. Major complaints of no output power. And on top of that they didn't sell it as a complete kit. No you had to buy wiring harnesses ect ect ect. But they didn't tell you all the items you needed to wire it up on there web site..
I bought the Bluetooth dongle. Then they took weeks to find out I also needed a special over priced cable too. And in the end it didn't work..

So I hold them at blame for dismal accessory sales. Poorly done web sites. Pisss poor descriptions and pictures, lack of nessesary information to go with the incomplete kit you were trying to buy.

Just another devision that needs a kick in the asss and some people fired...

 

I just went through researching the Dongle idea, pros/cons and so forth on another thread and I agree with you. By the time I would have got done what I wanted to accomplish (wife and I simply tuning in to local stations simultaneously through our headsets at road speed rather than blaring the bikes speakers to hear them through the shield and padding of a helmet and doing so with the handlebar controls) 2 Dongles, Y harness, main harness, friggin' near $500!!!! Too many parts to order, too much monkey business and for pete's sake "NO INFORMATION ON THE PRODUCT PAGE TELLING ME WHAT I NEED TO BUY TO DO A SIMPLE TASK"!!!!!

Solution? doing the same thing sharing TuneIn or Iheart radio app from my phone to both helmets @ $00.00.......

 

Let's put that 111 pony into my Kingpin and Little pony will be come Big F^&%&*^ Horse

To gain what?
This is the Indian 111 (73/101):

This is a stock Vic 106" (84/97):

This is a stock Vic 100" (75/94):

 

I will say this... Vic has the advantage of being a progressive company and as such can change directions and think outside of the box at will. But will they? Not sure at this point. Indian is... well, Indian. They are locked into the heritage shtick. If you like that, it's a very good build of bike and it will have its audience. I'm fairly certain both brands have a nice future ahead. The wild thing with Vic is, all speculation aside we really don't know which way things will go. Me, I'm riding a badass Vision and can wait things out. I'm having fun with all this!

 

I am also 5 -8, or on a tall day, 5 -9 and I absolutely love the room on the CCT. I can only imagine the big guys really enjoy the extra room.

 

Believe me, brother, we do. We do indeed. To this day I have no idea what the guys at Indian were thinkin. Every bike in the line is cramped. If it were me I would have come with 2 frames that had some degree of adjustability at the controls. The Scout doesn't count in this, as it came later and it's a small bike anyway.

 

I believe that is true to make a push for Indian, but victory is not out they should be going to a hard focus with victory for 2017. Victory could use a starter bike and some electronic upgrades for the tourers but other than that they are already great bikes in my opinion.

 

Is it too late in this discussion to ask what difference it makes at this point what the bike was "supposed to be"? As of the moment and likely hereafter, the Scout is an Indian and not a Victory. And all the debate in the world will not change that fact.

BOARHUNTER

 

I feel like coffeedave feels like the brand is on its way out and to prove his point, he's using the unsubstantiated rumor that Polaris had plans for a new Vic bike, but instead gave it to Indian. You're right, it doesn't make a difference and now we have an Indian scout and we have victory doing whatever the hell they're doing trying to stay on the cutting edge of what they feel is performance.

I guess some hold it against Vic, or Indian, or Polaris that Indian (the brand new acquisition they've spent hundreds of million of dollars on reviving) got dibs on a platform. Whereas me personally, am just curious to know if that was the case and why it should reflect poorly on any party, given that we have an Indian scout and more than likely an upgraded version for the victory line.

 

Yes ! Iabob Finally. Someone brings up oil. That's what I'm talking about. Ok let's have a real discussion. Enough of this boring economic political factual who gives a crap BS. Besides in this country there are a lot of wealthy people. Middle class and upper class buying again thanks to low interest finance options and the desire to be cool again. Mid life crisis purchases will always be in our American culture.

Have you ever noticed though ....... HD owners trade their bikes in for newer HDs quite often. Mostly in anticipation that the next model will be better than the last then further down the road again they trade after yet another attempt to get the right bike until then .......... they finally decide on either an Indian or Victory?
I say Polaris timing and the future of Victory is looking very promising.

 

Ummm...not to bust up the discussion or anything....but to get back on topic...I was talking with someone the other day who has a long history in the Polaris/Vic/Indian bidness, and we were talking specifically about the amount of space and quality dedicated to the Indian side vs the Vic side. He brought up a few interesting points that helped me understand why things with Vic are the way they are.
He said that regardless of whether he sells 2 Vics or 20 Vics, Polaris allocates him 50 of them per sales year. Period. He also mentioned that for the Victory market, 9 times out of 10 the only sale he's going to make to the customer is the bike itself. The average Vic customer doesn't buy accessories from the dealer, and apparel sales are almost as abysmal. Indian customers are almost completely the polar opposite. Harley customers by a different name, as it were. Shirts, jackets, CHAIRS, for christ's sakes....if it says Indian they want it. Allocation on bikes themselves are at least equal to, if not more than sales demand. The Indian community is a huge part of the way Polaris does business in that regard.
So, having said all that, how can Polaris change things? Even more importantly, why should they? Here's a little bit of my theory....It's well known that in the early days, there was nothing short of a vacuum when it came to parts and accessories. Guys like Jon at Witchdoctors, Coastal Victory, Hot Vic, etc etc etc stepped up from the aftermarket to fill that void. The quality and degree to which they filled that void all but pushed Vic dealers completely out of the picture. I don't think this is a lesson that Polaris suffered lightly, and they are NOT gonna miss the boat this time around on Indian. So, Polaris claims that Victory is going to be the performance side of the equation while Indian will represent the heritage side. The question still remains, do we see Polaris working to change Victory's presence, even within it's own dealerships? Why should they?

 

Ummm...not to bust up the discussion or anything....but to get back on topic...I was talking with someone the other day who has a long history in the Polaris/Vic/Indian bidness, and we were talking specifically about the amount of space and quality dedicated to the Indian side vs the Vic side. He brought up a few interesting points that helped me understand why things with Vic are the way they are.
He said that regardless of whether he sells 2 Vics or 20 Vics, Polaris allocates him 50 of them per sales year. Period. He also mentioned that for the Victory market, 9 times out of 10 the only sale he's going to make to the customer is the bike itself. The average Vic customer doesn't buy accessories from the dealer, and apparel sales are almost as abysmal. Indian customers are almost completely the polar opposite. Harley customers by a different name, as it were. Shirts, jackets, CHAIRS, for christ's sakes....if it says Indian they want it. Allocation on bikes themselves are at least equal to, if not more than sales demand. The Indian community is a huge part of the way Polaris does business in that regard.
So, having said all that, how can Polaris change things? Even more importantly, why should they? Here's a little bit of my theory....It's well known that in the early days, there was nothing short of a vacuum when it came to parts and accessories. Guys like Jon at Witchdoctors, Coastal Victory, Hot Vic, etc etc etc stepped up from the aftermarket to fill that void. The quality and degree to which they filled that void all but pushed Vic dealers completely out of the picture. I don't think this is a lesson that Polaris suffered lightly, and they are NOT gonna miss the boat this time around on Indian. So, Polaris claims that Victory is going to be the performance side of the equation while Indian will represent the heritage side. The question still remains, do we see Polaris working to change Victory's presence, even within it's own dealerships? Why should they?

Are they working to change the presence ???

Fck yeah!!!!

Man the factory dealers down here share the love of both the Vic and Indian...

The Vic brand is still a baby mate....

Give it time and the merchandise will flow...

Hell I own a dozen Vic shirts and two Vic hoodies!!!

I'll buy some Vic jocks n socks too when they come out!!!

 

No excuse for way overpricing factory items. HD has been getting away with it for years. My friend SG owner just did his sound system front and rear. Wanted to stay all HD. For what he paid vs what he got is just horrible. The reason for aftermarket is improvement IMO.

 

I think Victory's future is brighter than Indian's. Victory has no rules to follow, just keep improving a great product. I could see a water cooled V4 in a CCT, now that would be great. Indians are well done, but they have a box around them so to speak.

 

My local dealer, where I bought mine, has Victory, Indian, and Slingshot. When you walk in, Victory is on the left, Indian on the right, and Slingshot in the middle. Vic and Indian have equal floor space, although they do have more Indians right now. They have more Indian accessories/clothing, but they blamed Polaris on the lack of stuff. Victory is established, Indian (for Polaris) is new. Polaris is trying to get the name back out there and overcome previous quality issues the last time they were sold.

They have two used Indians and no used Vics. I am not worried about Victory. It is normal for a company to have a huge campaign whenever a new model/make is introduced. Besides, Indians are much more expensive than Vics!

 

I still agree with others that noted that they are playing to two different crowds for the most part. If I could afford a second bike I'd have a Chieftain for riding solo once in a while. For no other reason than it's a beautifully styled classic. Styling and fit are worlds apart. I'm only 5'8" and I think the Indian's are too cramped compared to the Vic's. I love that stretched out feel, very roomy. And I like the edgy appearance of the Cross Country. I'll buy another CCT when mine tires out.

I have my wife with me 60-70% of the time. We've sat two up on many a bike from my brother-in-law's Ultra Classic, Indian Roadmaster, Vision's and Wing's just for the sake of comparison before and after we made the purchase. My darling bride said there is "NOTHING" as comfortable as the CCT for her. The closest was the Vision but she said even though it has a nice wrap around effect it felt too stiff. So I have to keep that consideration front and center as well.

To each his own. If I win the Power Ball I'll have to build a separate garage just for the Vic/Indian collection I'd have but I can't worry about that as I haven't purchased a ticket in years. But they are truly the only two brands that appeal to me at all.

 

Oh yeah of little faith ,listen to one of the converted! Patience my friends as we wait for the release 2017 ,will be the year of the Victory,Once agian it's star will shine! Not without a teaser sometimes early to mid 2016!
Be prepared to be totally amazed for I have seen what lays ahead of us all!
Fear not the day is near for what may be ultimately called the revelation of the evelution of Motercycles lays in all of our immediate future!