He also reitterated Polaris's belief that Indian will outsell Vic in 2-3 years.

Honestly, I think that's an accurate prediction as IMHO, I think Indian already has a better name brand recognition than Victory.

My question is: If the new Indian lives up to the hype and pre-orders exceed expections, where does the production capacity come from? Will Polaris hold off on production until new facilities can be built, or will they take over some of Victory's production capacity?

Remember, Polaris is a public company and it's all about generating cash and making a profit.

Please don't shoot the messenger. It's my job to ask the questions.

 

Honestly, I think that's an accurate prediction as IMHO, I think Indian already has a better name brand recognition than Victory.

My question is: If the new Indian lives up to the hype and pre-orders exceed expections, where does the production capacity come from? Will Polaris hold off on production until new facilities can be built, or will they take over some of Victory's production capacity?

Remember, Polaris is a public company and it's all about generating cash and making a profit.

Please don't shoot the messenger. It's my job to ask the questions.

Probably not a realistic scenario. They have built a second assembly line for Indian pretty much right next to the Vic line. It has it's own tooling and Vic has it's own. I don't think making fewer Vics on the Vic line so they can run more Indians on it is an option. Just by doing a little mental addition from talking to the factory workers I think a "line" at Spirit Lake has a capacity of close to 60,000 bikes a year. Asumming that demand got that high and they added a second or third shift. I think where your question comes in is lets just say in a few years Indian is running three shifts and maxed out capacity while Victory is still just running one shift and even it is under capacity. Polaris has ample space at a new building they just bought about ten miles south. Will they invest in a third line or would they kill Victory alltogether and retool that line for Indian... As an investor I'm hoping to see some new stuff from Indian AND Victory and would love to see a third and fourth line added in Milford (the new space). I really think Victory is on the cusp of breaking out of the "niche" catagory, the Cross has been phenomenal and I think if they just released a streetable CORE those two models alone would take them to the next level. From the business end I get that killing Victory for Indian's second line might make for a better return on investment than if they add a third line. OR...maybe a new Victory model does take off and a recall problem sees Indian falter. Maybe they kill Indian to add more Victory...either scenario I get why it might make sense. But I don't think either will happen.

 

I see Victory sticking to progressive new styles like the cross bikes and vision. Indian will stick to the more traditional old-school styling that traditionalists will like and hope to convert some HD owners over.

But...thats just my prediction. For all we know the new 2014 Chief will look worse than the george jetson looking vision.

 

As an investor I'm hoping to see some new stuff from Indian AND Victory and would love to see a third and fourth line added in Milford (the new space). I really think Victory is on the cusp of breaking out of the "niche" catagory, the Cross has been phenomenal and I think if they just released a streetable CORE those two models alone would take them to the next level. From the business end I get that killing Victory for Indian's second line might make for a better return on investment than if they add a third line. OR...maybe a new Victory model does take off and a recall problem sees Indian falter. Maybe they kill Indian to add more Victory...either scenario I get why it might make sense. But I don't think either will happen.

There's a lot of merit to your post. Personally, I think it would be fantastic to see Polaris update the Victory's stronger sellers and launch some new bikes under the Victory name and combined with Indian, truly become a force in the motorcycle market.

We'll see the direction they are taking soon enough!

 

I think forPolaris to be successful they should provide with the dealer in house training for mechanics. I'm talking a couple months or whatever it takes. Harley has the Harley Mechanics courses at a few colleges sponsered by them which I assume is a huge help for dealers. Victory and Indian need to provide in house training for mechanics to become knowledgeablewith the bikes. I think that is the biggest improvement that they need. Nothing worse than not trusting a mechanic with your bike or having it not fixed properly. Even basic things like tire changes and after aligning the belt seems a problem for many. You are going down the road at 70 mph on a couple small patches of rubber last thing you need is to doubt the reliability of the shop who put your bike together. So basically they are going to start selling Indian soon and how many of the new dealers will have any training? If they don't improve this they will not be as successful as they could be.

 

Production capacity is not their issue. They recently stated they work one 8 hour shift and can nearly triple that in the same facility by adding personnel. Perhaps Indian is one of the better things to happen to Victory in a while.

 

I hope Indian does very well and could see a future model, like a scout, parked next to my XCT. But I don't see Victory going anywhere but up unless they so something really stupid or make no efforts to clean up their few problem areas. Reason is I get more comments and questions about this XCT than any bike I've owned in 35 years. I mean old guys roll down their windows at stop lights and yell "where did you get that bike!?" with the enthusiasm i would expect were i riding a winged unicorn.

 

K I know I haven't seen the whole bike...but from what people are saying and the rumors that are flying it will be an old school bike full of tradition and heritage. Sounds all too familiar. Now I'm all for a company trying to appeal to as many groups as they can but honestly that whole heritage and old school thing does nothing for me. My grandfather had an indian and it was great. I would never own one. I don't like the look it just isn't for me. Now if Polaris wants to keep both lines and appeal to everyone that is great. I bought my bike because it was "me". I have plans of staying with Victory for my next bike but if they start demolishing everything that made them appeal to me then I will have to walk away. I admire everthing about Indian as a brand and what Polaris is doing with them so far. I just hope Polaris realizes that not everyone is going to want to be a part of the heritage and tradition.

 

I've spoken to a few Victory/Polaris dealers here in the Midwest the last couple of days, inquiring if they will become Indian dealers. Most have said flat out "No". One said they didn't know - but they supposedly "know" one was coming to their city- but that it was up in the air just who would be awarded the dealership.Another dealership in Illinois said he was considering it - because Indian had dropped their buy in from $250k to $175K - but he still wasn't quite yet sold on the idea.

The last dealer I talked to in Wisconcin confirmed he was going to be an Indian dealer, and that they have built a new separate facility from their Victory building. He said technically its not offical because the building is pending inspection by Polaris/Indian - but they are confident they will pass with flying colors. This dealer stressed to me that Polaris is being very cautious and very protective of not only the new bike, but of the dealership experience. He said they want this to be a premium product with dedicated Indian sales and service, and that most of the "mom and pop" Polaris/Victory dealers just wont cut it. He did say there is a big dealer meeting coming up in the next week or two, and only those dealers who have their Indian buildings and plans approved will be shown the new bike. All others will have to wait like the rest of us.

 

Not commited to buying an Indian but definitely curious to see it come out .. From what my Polaris Dealer says it looks like they will be an Indian Dealer and I sure hope so .. Even if decide to stay with the Victory Line definitely be nice to see Indian close by and Hope it kicks ass on the Market ..

 

They sre a public company and have to increase sales as a whole. I do no see them dropping the Vic line. I do see them investing in both lines and getting the whole BIGGER. They have to much invested in getting Vic where it is today.

 

Victory has hit a homerun with the "Cross" bikes and baggers/tourers are the fastest growing segment of the industy. Victory is also the entry way for young riders to the brand, not too many 20 somethings will be looking at Indian.
Polaris is well poised to cover all aspects of the market. The only thing missing from the lineup would be a lighter weight sport/touring model for newer riders and a Naked "Core" bike.

 

Happy to hear that my dealer Mies/Outland will be an Indian dealer, not sure where they have space to add a showroom but am looking forward to seeing the "new" Indians.

 

It will be interesting to see how much momentum Indian can garner in it's first few years.
I'm excited about the rebirth from a real company that has shown some success in bike building.
It's a big gamble for them though, they've clearly invested some serious cash into it's reboot.
What that means for Victory? Hard to say, Victory has shown steady growth over the years and the Cross bikes have been a seemingly successful home run for the brand.
If the Vision get's it's reboot like some are thinking that would be a double punch for the brand.
While I'm assuming they're in the black on Victory has the 10k a year sales made a real dent to HD or other brand? Problably not, I'm sure it garners attention but I don't anyone is worried about Victory/Indian(yet).

 

Happy to hear that my dealer Mies/Outland will be an Indian dealer, not sure where they have space to add a showroom but am looking forward to seeing the "new" Indians.

Since they are your dealer, you will understand this as you have obviously been there. They are knokcing out the glass wall on the north end of the victory showroom and pushing it out into their main parking lot so the building is squared off in the front and even with the front entrance. They will lose some of their parking lot. They are going to build a partial wall between the two showrooms to keep them separate.

 

I am lurking until the Indian is released, I won't buy a Victory until the Indian is released and I want to see if it get's legs unlike the past reincarnations and what will happen to the Victory line as a consequence,

 

Apd4209 sez: "...Off topice about Vics: Asked him why the Boardwalk isnt selling. Says price-point is too high when for 2grand more you can get a cross country. He thinks that is the #1 reason why they arent selling. He is also concerned about base-model Vics like the Vegas fading away. No entry level bikes or smaller framed bikes for females or your bar-hopper bike. Models are getting limited..." My dealer and I asked the same question...it may be price point...the success of the XCT, XCT, and Vision (all 3 best in class in my mind) may have created a market focus that limits the success of the entry level models...maybe a refocus on the current non-tour/non-bagger bikes, or an engine in the 50 in3 to appeal to riders looking for less investment, or who are entry level riders...I read somewhere that the 750 cc--900 cc is the largest segment of motorcyle owners. While not in that engine size, the Vegas, Judge and Boardwalk should compete there in terms of functionality styling, and use. unless already "on the board," a smaller engine would be several (2-4) years out. Indian will certainly have a market share; Victory will have a market share, I don't look at Indian as encroaching on Victory...they will appeal to people looking for different things. I would bet that what is more important to all of us is that both brands perform at or above projection, and that Polaris is happy with their return on investment and the bottom line. Success in both brands will benefit all Polaris brand riders...

 

I would bet that what is more important to all of us is that both brands perform at or above projection, and that Polaris is happy with their return on investment and the bottom line. Success in both brands will benefit all Polaris brand riders...

And negative ROI encountered by any brand will drag down Polaris. May all the 'Heritage at a Premium' prophecies being pushed out to Vic dealers by Polaris be accurate, or, eh, uh,,,

 

Apd4209 sez: "...Off topice about Vics: Asked him why the Boardwalk isnt selling. Says price-point is too high when for 2grand more you can get a cross country. He thinks that is the #1 reason why they arent selling. He is also concerned about base-model Vics like the Vegas fading away. No entry level bikes or smaller framed bikes for females or your bar-hopper bike. Models are getting limited..." My dealer and I asked the same question...it may be price point...the success of the XCT, XCT, and Vision (all 3 best in class in my mind) may have created a market focus that limits the success of the entry level models...maybe a refocus on the current non-tour/non-bagger bikes, or an engine in the 50 in3 to appeal to riders looking for less investment, or who are entry level riders...I read somewhere that the 750 cc--900 cc is the largest segment of motorcyle owners. While not in that engine size, the Vegas, Judge and Boardwalk should compete there in terms of functionality styling, and use. unless already "on the board," a smaller engine would be several (2-4) years out. Indian will certainly have a market share; Victory will have a market share, I don't look at Indian as encroaching on Victory...they will appeal to people looking for different things. I would bet that what is more important to all of us is that both brands perform at or above projection, and that Polaris is happy with their return on investment and the bottom line. Success in both brands will benefit all Polaris brand riders...

Harley is the same. Baggers outsell everything except I think Sportsters. Polaris needs an entry level bike to ladder up to the bigger stuff.

 

The worst thing for current Victory owners is for Indian to be a smashing success and start building sporty scoots using that new motor. The building smaller Scouts to compte with the Sportster for the entry level crowd. I belive they would drop the Victory moniker faster tha the nsame V92.
THAT is why even though I like the Judge as a nice addition to replace the VTX, I would wait a few months or until next year to see what kind of fire the Indian starts. Resale values on used Victorys are very close to the rest of the good metric lines.

 

The worst thing for current Victory owners is for Indian to be a smashing success and start building sporty scoots using that new motor. The building smaller Scouts to compte with the Sportster for the entry level crowd. I belive they would drop the Victory moniker faster tha the nsame V92.
THAT is why even though I like the Judge as a nice addition to replace the VTX, I would wait a few months or until next year to see what kind of fire the Indian starts. Resale values on used Victorys are very close to the rest of the good metric lines.

I have to disagree with that. I think when Indian is successful then that will be good for Vic. It seems like some guys on this board think victory is an utter failure. I think victory is a huge success look how far they have come in only 15 years. A lot of people will come into Victory show rooms because of Indian. Vic's are great bikes and will only get better. I think the future for victory and Indian is very bright.

 

I have to disagree with that. I think when Indian is successful then that will be good for Vic. It seems like some guys on this board think victory is an utter failure. I think victory is a huge success look how far they have come in only 15 years. A lot of people will come into Victory show rooms because of Indian. Vic's are great bikes and will only get better. I think the future for victory and Indian is very bright.

10K bikes a year in 15 years according to someone who corrected me. (I thought they sold 16K a year). In any case that is not "very far" in 15 years, HOWVER their growth is very good in the On Street Divsion. Hopefully Indian helps that. Its a tough crowd in Sturgis,

 

Victory's biggest weakness in the minds of many of us is its lack of Quality of Dealership Service support, Specifically the training of it motorcycle Technicians. You may note I said Technician, not mechanic. Modern bikes, like modern cars, need specifically trained Techs to best perform mid-level services or repairs. Note how in the Automotive field you see more and more shops listed as Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Ford/Lincoln, etc . . . this is because each requires specific training and special tools to properly repair these lines that many of the old time General Repair Shops cannot afford the Time and Money to keep up with. I honestly do not expect some part time Import/Domestic Motorcycle/ATV /Water craft mechanic to be able to provide the best or even truly competent services for my Victory XC, I have already been there sadly.
Many Brands such as Harley, Ducati and hopefully Indian see this and require certain commitments in Training and facilities from their Dealerships to sell their products. My biggest Hope is this will bleed over to Victory and improve our Service support. Maybe have Most Indian Dealerships will also have a Victory Dealership and will have Gold Level or Better trained Techs to work on our bikes. Much like many
Automotive dealerships have their Two Tier set up, like a Lexus/Toyota or Lincoln/Ford, separate yet sharing many resources.
Even if your local Victory Dealership doesn't get a Indian Franchise, having one somewhere in the area that does will hopefully put pressure on them to Step Up their game and dramatically improve their Training and Service Levels or face losing business.
At the same time Victory needs to exploit this concern and make a major push to assist all Dealerships into a program of Factory Level Training and Support on par or better then Harley currently has. Motivate them all to reach a minim Training Level of Gold and a Strong desire to reach Platinum in as many as their Tech as possible. This is what most Automotive Factories do for the Dealerships and the reason that for many major repairs or Service the OE dealership is the best choice. Many of the Factories require , provide and well Reward their Dealerships with HighLevels of Training and Service Excellence.
Do This plus continue to produce a Quality Product and Victory will continue to grow even stronger with a very Loyal Customer Base. Fail Us, well history has enough examples of a Great thing that BOMBED because of exactly these issues.
I'm hoping for the Best Still and will be watching as it unfolds.

I think forPolaris to be successful they should provide with along with the dealer in house training for mechanics. I'm talking a couple months or whatever it takes. Harley has the Harley Mechanics courses at a few colleges sponsered by them which I assume is a huge help for dealers. Victory and Indian need to provide in house training for mechanics to become knowledgeablewith the bikes. I think that is the biggest improvement that they need. Nothing worse than not trusting a mechanic with your bike or having it not fixed properly. Even basic things like tire changes and after aligning the belt seems a problem for many. You are going down the road at 70 mph on a couple small patches of rubber last thing you need is to doubt the reliability of the shop who put your bike together. So basically they are going to start selling Indian soon and how many of the new dealers will have any training? If they don't improve this they will not be as successful as they could be.

 

Victory's biggest weakness in the minds of many of us is its lack of Quality of Dealership Service support, Specifically the training of it motorcycle Technicians. You may note I said Technician, not mechanic. Modern bikes, like modern cars, need specifically trained Techs to best perform mid-level services or repairs. Note how in the Automotive field you see more and more shops listed as Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Ford/Lincoln, etc . . . this is because each requires specific training and special tools to properly repair these lines that many of the old time General Repair Shops cannot afford the Time and Money to keep up with. I honestly do not expect some part time Import/Domestic Motorcycle/ATV /Water craft mechanic to be able to provide the best or even truly competent services for my Victory XC, I have already been there sadly.
Many Brands such as Harley, Ducati and hopefully Indian see this and require certain commitments in Training and facilities from their Dealerships to sell their products. My biggest Hope is this will bleed over to Victory and improve our Service support. Maybe have Most Indian Dealerships will also have a Victory Dealership and will have Gold Level or Better trained Techs to work on our bikes. Much like many
Automotive dealerships have their Two Tier set up, like a Lexus/Toyota or Lincoln/Ford, separate yet sharing many resources.
Even if your local Victory Dealership doesn't get a Indian Franchise, having one somewhere in the area that does will hopefully put pressure on them to Step Up their game and dramatically improve their Training and Service Levels or face losing business.
At the same time Victory needs to exploit this concern and make a major push to assist all Dealerships into a program of Factory Level Training and Support on par or better then Harley currently has. Motivate them all to reach a minim Training Level of Gold and a Strong desire to reach Platinum in as many as their Tech as possible. This is what most Automotive Factories do for the Dealerships and the reason that for many major repairs or Service the OE dealership is the best choice. Many of the Factories require , provide and well Reward their Dealerships with HighLevels of Training and Service Excellence.
Do This plus continue to produce a Quality Product and Victory will continue to grow even stronger with a very Loyal Customer Base. Fail Us, well history has enough examples of a Great thing that BOMBED because of exactly these issues.
I'm hoping for the Best Still and will be watching as it unfolds.

Polaris will step up. This is way to big of an investment in time money and public perception with this Indian launch to treat it like you guys are saying Victory dealers are. People will have to be trained and buyers have the comfort of knowing their purchase is protected and maintained professionally by every dealer who has the good fortune to sell the brand. If anything i would fear the Indian becomeing so big, Victory becomes an also ran the bikes tank in the resale market. (whcih is good for those like me who would love to get a Judge at firesale prices)

 

hey, its all polaris. i think indian is going to grow slowly but surely just like victory is doing." we'll cross that bridge when we get to it " ! its not like all these trained techs and dealerships will all be in place as the first indians roll off the asembly line, come on now , lets be realistic. the vic dealers i've talked to say they're going to do all they can to get an indian on their showroom floor. i don't think many know what the real game plan is, just my 2 cents of course. time will tell.