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Bad news for Indian

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#9 ·
Good points. I'd bet that the Scout is the best selling American bike on the market, and within that I'd say the Scout bobber is probably the best seller in that line up. It seems as if they all priced themselves out of the market for middle America. I know they have for me, and I do pretty well. I can't imagine paying 25k dollars for a motorcycle, regardless of how much I like it.
 
#43 ·
kaitiff said:
I think Indian would have done far better had Polaris kept Victory. Having both platforms would have been synergistic.. look at the Scout.. taken/stolen from money spent on Vic development. I would bet that if you took the Scout out of the lineup for Indian their sales figures would be a LOT worse. There was and should have been even more overlap with the 2 brands... the money spent on the Indian E-package would have sold a LOT more XC and Visions had it been ported over for example... the locking saddlebags and other amenities as well. Polaris took a very short-sighted path when they closed down Vic and I think it's going to cost them in the long run big.. I don't see Indian succeeding long term with their limited offerings. What they offer appeals to too narrow a segment and they offer very little to the segment that IS buying bikes. I am still stinging from Vic getting shut down.. but I can't say I'll be too broken up when Indian goes under... AGAIN.
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I said something very similar to Brad Bair (owner Bair's power sports). He said "no way"...."the year the Scout and Octane were released, he sold 40 Scouts and 3 Octanes. They sat in the same showroom and the same customers walked right past the Octane and rode the Scout out the door". He went on to say that the same pattern happened all day every day with the rest of the line up. People just generally want the Indian more than a Victory. But then again people generally are sheep.
 
#50 ·
Poseidon said:
Having them both in the same showroom... salesman is going to push the one they make the most money on.
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I've worked in a dealership selling bikes. They would make the same amount on either bike. Salesmen sell what the customer is looking at.
 
#65 ·
sdranger said:
I agree iabob and add to the fact in 2012 Indian was bought. Now I have no idea if they were planning on dumping Victory yet then but I doubt it. No need to have a big fender bike at 13K when you know your going to put another one in at 18K. Hell IMO they could bring the Pin back rename it a Spirit put the 1200cc octane motor in it and it would fit nicely into the Indian line-up... and IMO that would sell like hot cakes. That is exactly what I would buy for my next bike.
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I like this idea, but I'd want a bigger motor.
 
#209 ·
sdranger said:
I think Indian already has this covered (the new FTR platform), and that HD adventure bike is butt-ugly, the street fighter not so bad. But keep in mind these bikes will need a real motor and suspension at a reasonable cost, something they've never had to do before. Electric Bicycles? WTF! Just make a real electric moped FFS.
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I'm not betting on the FTR to be market leader. They'll be popular but I'm betting the price of them will severely limit the number of sales and the bikes won't be something that the average joe will buy and ride as an everyday motorcycle. I don't think that theses ugly ass bikes HD just announced will be market leaders either but they're bringing more choice and options than Indian is, and choice and competition is always a good thing. I hope Indian gets the message and brings a lighter line of bikes to the market soon but there's no sign of that.
 
#351 ·
I think HD took a good step, in the right direction, with the M8. It’s still not a Freedom motor but it’s closer than the Twin cam. To me their biggest draw back other than the price, is the small frames. Riding any Victory (other than an octane) is so much more comfortable compared to any HD. The seating position and leg room are nonexistent on a Harley.
 
#390 ·
Rewindguy said:
Really don't care what Polarass comes out with! I'm done with them!
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I thought that for a while too. But if Indian comes out with the Big Bore water cooled cruiser with long travel suspension and high end components and makes good power out to say 6k rpm, then I'd be interested and would do what I could to support them.
 
#397 ·
iabob said:
I have seen no definitive proof that the EPA has anything to do with it. I have seen people point fingers without any kind of data to back it up, but that's what we call rumors. On the other hand, I have seen Polarass release 50 state legal "S&S Stage 2 cams" that make 20% more power. So if that passed EPA certification to be 50 state legal obviously the stock 106 was fine. Besides that I find it hard to believe that a 2 valve push rod 111" or 116" Indian motor, or up to 117" Harley V-twins can be epa compliant but a 106" OHC 4 valve is somehow magically less efficient than those older designs. The Vic 106 was EPA compliant. It was even Euro 4 compliant. Blaming the EPA is shifting the blame from where it belongs, 100% on Polaris' executives who made bad business decisions.
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Ok here goes nothing..... I have somethings to say or ask you specifically. I admire your knowledge on these bikes and experiences. I respect you (from what I know) so it's not easy for me to challenge you. But I have this nagging thought in my head. For months you vehemently argued EVERYONE who came on here stating that Victory was going away. You argued with stats and reason that sounded very tough to debate. You defended Victory with every breath you had and even got into rather heated debates with people over it. Now a year and a half plus after they're gone you're here daily arguing the fact that Indian is going to die. It makes it tough for me to give any cred to your position. Just sayin.
 
#400 ·
iabob said:
Well first let me say thank you for letting me know you're just sayin what you just said. My response would be you aren't wrong, but you are exaggerating. I was very excited about the future I thought was in store for Victory. And I did engage in discussions and expressed that view. But I've also been very critical of Victory, specifically in regards to over hyping new releases and not doing the kinds of things they said they were going to do. And yes, because of my experiences with being a defender and seeing just what happened by believing Polaris...that absolutely gets taken into account when assessing what's going on with Indian today.

Yep, I'm passionate, engaged, and sometimes out of line and wrong. Sometimes I right too :)
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True story.... my book reads similar to that haha.
 
#403 ·
I must agree that with them being awol from Sturgis makes it look pretty bad. I truly hope they don’t fold though. Victory and Indian are 100% responsible for Harley Stepping up their game. Had it not been for Victory they’d probably still have the 88” motors in their bikes. If Swine pulls the plug we’re doomed to be stuck where we’re at for a looong time in the US motorcycle market.
 
#439 ·
iabob said:
Yeah, I see that the event organizers are promoting demo rides at their event. But that's still odd. Nothing from Polaris/Indian. You would think if this was accurate, and this event is serving as the official reveal of MY2019 bikes that it would be on Indian's website and promoted on social media. I also would have thought if they have something to reveal they would have done it at Sturgis. Heck, even paint and wheel changes should have been at Sturgis right?
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I agree with you. It's very suspicious to say the least. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an announcement similar to the 1/9/17 announcement and I also wouldn't be surprised if there are 2019 models there that are just paint updates.
 
#444 ·
slickvic said:
Has HD ever done next model update announcements like Polaris used to ?
Honda ? I'm not seeing a reason to worry about closing the doors. They may just want to hold off until they develop something new. The whole industry has backed it down and due to decreased sales it's smart to do so at this time. The fact is that it's got people talking and that's a good thing. If they develop nothing for a while it won't bother me as I have enough MC to keep going for years. Live on Victory !! At least in my world. Lol.
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Harley does the new model dealer show in Vegas every year with lots of fanfare and hype. They just did it a few days ago.
 
#454 ·
Half_Crazy said:
Ya know… you don't need stronger rods to do a 116 on a Victory. Doesn't changing the rods require splitting the cases, or are the bikes going to be produced with stronger rods from the factory?
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I just saw a post on FB by "Those Dyno Guys" where they tuned a stage II Indian. 88hp and 112ft/lb to the tire. Why on earth would they need stronger rods for that !? No I don't have a link lol.
 
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