Well, I guess it's been a few weeks since we had an oil thread so it was about time. Next time do a search, there's probably 500 posts on the subject. Just remember, the factory oil spec is 20w-40 JASO-MA and as far as I know the only 2 oils available in the US that meet that spec 100% are Victory oil and Castrol Actevo X-Tra 4T, both are synthetic blends.

 

rut row....

 

rut row....

And away we goooooo ........ LOL! As Homer Simpson sez: " D'oh! "

 

Well, I guess it's been a few weeks since we had an oil thread so it was about time. Next time do a search, there's probably 500 posts on the subject. Just remember, the factory oil spec is 20w-40 JASO-MA and as far as I know the only 2 oils available in the US that meet that spec 100% are Victory oil and Castrol Actevo X-Tra 4T, both are synthetic blends.

Just remember... that sometimes people give advice that just isn't true. First of all there are many oil brands out there in this new century which meet or exceed JASO-MA standards which are called for by the factory specs. Secondly, most factory recommendations are not only minimum specs, but are motivated by their wish to sell their products and make additional profit. While the oils mentioned are surely good enough to run in your new bike, they are not the end all of lubricants which do more than a satisfactory job. I have had 30 or so bikes over the past 48 years of riding and have used many different brands of lubricants with nary (knock on wood) an engine problem. Currently I am running Rotella T6 5W-40W, which by the way is a full synthetic and meets JASO-MA standards. I like the 5W for the first start up of the day... just a personal preference for cold starting, and the 40W seems to be enough to get on thru the hot days. Would run a 5W-50W or even 60W in the summer if it were available. But as mentioned, do a search and read all the opinions on here about different oils and form your own plan according to your climate needs and your personal performance desires.

 

Summer: Mobil 1 20W-50 V-Twin Winter: Mobil 1 10W 40 Racing 4T (Changed yesterday to winter) Both are fully synthetic, motorcycle specific oils and cost around $10/Qt and are readily available at Auto Zone. That's all.

 

Summer: Mobil 1 20W-50 V-Twin Winter: Mobil 1 10W 40 Racing 4T (Changed yesterday to winter) Both are fully synthetic, motorcycle specific oils and cost around $10/Qt and are readily available at Auto Zone. That's all.

No, that is not all. Do you run a stock clutch pack with stock springs? Trust me, I have been a fervent supporter of full synthetics on every board I frequent and have used thousands of dollars of top shelf synthetic products in vehicles for decades and even made some enemies on the various Victory boards when I called a BS on the "no full synthetics" mantra Kevinx and others expoused until I ran Mobil 1 V-Twin in my stock Cross Country and developed noticeable cluch slippage at higher rpms. The problem isn't about engine protection, lower temps or quieting down the top end. The problem is the marginal clutch package in the Freedom 106 when you bolt it into a 1000 lb plus package (loaded weight). So far I have used Victory, Castrol 20w-40 semi syn and Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w-50 full syn and only the Mobil 1 caused clutch slippage. Take it for what it's worth but that's been mine and others experience as documented on various boards.

 

No, that is not all. Do you run a stock clutch pack with stock springs? Trust me, I have been a fervent supporter of full synthetics on every board I frequent and have used thousands of dollars of top shelf synthetic products in vehicles for decades and even made some enemies on the various Victory boards when I called a BS on the "no full synthetics" mantra Kevinx and others expoused until I ran Mobil 1 V-Twin in my stock Cross Country and developed noticeable cluch slippage at higher rpms. The problem isn't about engine protection, lower temps or quieting down the top end. The problem is the marginal clutch package in the Freedom 106 when you bolt it into a 1000 lb plus package (loaded weight). So far I have used Victory, Castrol 20w-40 semi syn and Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w-50 full syn and only the Mobil 1 caused clutch slippage. Take it for what it's worth but that's been mine and others experience as documented on various boards.

 

I have run both the Mobil 1 V-Twin 20-50W and the Rotella T6... both full synthetics and have experienced ZERO clutch slippage. Why do some slip and some don't? Is it the manner of shifting or the adjustment or what?

 

I have run both the Mobil 1 V-Twin 20-50W and the Rotella T6... both full synthetics and have experienced ZERO clutch slippage. Why do some slip and some don't? Is it the manner of shifting or the adjustment or what?

The 2011 trans update may help a bit but I suspect it's a borderline thing so some will and some won't. I will say that mine never slipped at low RPM under load like off the line, which most people consider clutch slippage. When mine slipped it was on the higher gear changes, say 3rd at WOT. The feeling is the equivalent of feathering the clutch when you want to be smooth. Instead of an immediate drop in RPM down to the new gear's ratio it's a gradual slip into gear and again, only at high RPM, high load situations. I noticed it the most in the mountains riding hard uphill under high load. The problem went away when I switched back to Victory oil. I've ridden bikes in the past where the owner claimed no clutch slippage and could immediately feel the slippage by riding it outside the parameters they were using. Mostly it's people who are very smooth on the clutch and rarely "hammer" the bike up through the gears who can run whatever they want and never feel a difference, I'm not one of those types of riders

 

Before the motor was built, stock clutch, never a clutch slippage issue with either Amsoil or Mobil 1, making 93 HP back then.

 

No, that is not all. Do you run a stock clutch pack with stock springs? So far I have used Victory, Castrol 20w-40 semi syn and Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w-50 full syn and only the Mobil 1 caused clutch slippage. Take it for what it's worth but that's been mine and others experience as documented on various boards.

It it were me, I'd invest in a better clutch spring and run whatever oil I wanted... There's no reason for wet-clutch-compatible oil to cause clutch slip. It's not the oil's fault.

 

It it were me, I'd invest in a better clutch spring and run whatever oil I wanted... There's no reason for wet-clutch-compatible oil to cause clutch slip. It's not the oil's fault.

I'm not going to "invest" one f***ig dime on a brand new bike to upgrade it's clutch and I shouldn't have to. I had this exact argument with my dealer as well as Kevin, who's a dealer mechanic and they both said, " they can't do a thing if it doesn't do it with Victory oil". I do agree with you that a clutch that slips with a motorcycle spec oil is either defective or under engineered, you can decide what the situation is with the core bikes. It's quite well documented that a number of Vision and Cross bike owners have had slippage issues with Mobil 1 and Amsoil V-Twin oils. Surf the web or call up a couple of Victory wrenches like Kevin or Lloyd, they will confirm it. They will also confirm the problem clears when the owner goes back to Victory oil. One person i know ran Mobil 1 for 10000 miles in a stock Vision without a problem. When he did the Lloyd'z cam upgrade he noticed it right away in the upper rpms, just like me. He went back to Vic oil at Lloyd's suggestion and the problem went away. Perhaps the problem has never plagued tube frame or 100ci owners but it has happened with 106ci core bikes, which the OP owns.

 

I'm not going to "invest" one f***ig dime on a brand new bike to upgrade it's clutch and I shouldn't have to.

Ultimately, it's your bike and if you won't spend a dime to improve the OEM clutch that's your call. What I said was that I would (and have). If it were MY bike it would get the spring AND the primary support plate too because I'm not going to ride a bike with a 'marginal' clutch... nor will I waste any time complaining about the marginal clutch when the fix is cheap and easily done. Every motorcycle I ever owned needed some sort of 'improvements' and this one is no different. The geaing SUCKED... so I fixed that ($300). The license plate bracket was HIDEOUS... I replaced it ($125). No bike is perfect out of the box. If the marginal clutch is the only issue you have you should consider yourself lucky.

 

Thanks for the answers, I didnt mean to start a debate. I did a search on preferred oil and came back nothing found. I guess I should have made it more simple. Thanks again.

 

Lets talk about winter oil, the Vic 20w-40w does seem a bit thick for cold morning starts.

 

Ride yesterday for 3 hours with the Mobil 1 10W-40 that I put in for the winter. I might run that year-round.

 

I use Amsoil 20/50. I have used it all year in Chicago and I use it all year in NC. I do not ride if the temp is lower than 40. I have used it on a 2000C, 2002 TCD, 2007 Hammer S, 2009 Vision TP (with Cams), 2011 XC and an 05 KP. I have never had issues. I would say I am a normal rider. I am not real aggressive. Maybe this is why I have never had an issue.

 

Ultimately, it's your bike and if you won't spend a dime to improve the OEM clutch that's your call. What I said was that I would (and have). If it were MY bike it would get the spring AND the primary support plate too because I'm not going to ride a bike with a 'marginal' clutch... nor will I waste any time complaining about the marginal clutch when the fix is cheap and easily done. Every motorcycle I ever owned needed some sort of 'improvements' and this one is no different. The geaing SUCKED... so I fixed that ($300). The license plate bracket was HIDEOUS... I replaced it ($125). No bike is perfect out of the box. If the marginal clutch is the only issue you have you should consider yourself lucky.

HC, On most of this we agree and I've changed out a lot on my bike to make it perfect for me. Where we diverge is the idea that I should have to replace something mechanical like the clutch pack to correct a factory deficiency. The issue really becomes one of perception. As long as the bike performs up to spec with the Vic oil the factory won't admit to or correct the clutch issue. I argued the same as you that ANY JASO MA/MA2 oil should work and if it doesn't then the part is defective and should be replaced, they didn't buy the argument. I only posted this to let the OP know that SOME people have had clutch issues with Full Syn, most notably Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50, that's all. Hopefully we're all good, I respect your opinions and experience and absolutely love your "sleeper" KP.

 

Thanks for the answers, I didnt mean to start a debate. I did a search on preferred oil and came back nothing found. I guess I should have made it more simple. Thanks again.

Hey, it's an oil thread, it wouldn't be any fun if we all agreed I think the biggest reason you don't we a large group of people with a preference is due to the relative quality and price of the Vic oil. If this were a Harley or Honda forum and we were being asked to pay $11+ / QT for a marginal semi-synthetic blend with known issues (H-D Syn 3 has a dubious history) then you would see more defectors. All in all the Vic oil is pretty good stuff at a decent price if your dealer isn't gouging you.

 

Ride yesterday for 3 hours with the Mobil 1 10W-40 that I put in for the winter. I might run that year-round.

I just filled the crank case of my XC with some Amsoil 10W-40 that I had in the cabinet from my wifes old SV-650 and so far it's working great. After trying a couple 20W-50 oils I'm thinking the 10W-40's are really a better fit for this motor.

 

Why do some slip and some don't?

That is a good question... I had 2 08 Vegas's with the same pipe set up and one backfired like crazy and the other one very rarely.

 

Where we diverge is the idea that I should have to replace something mechanical like the clutch pack to correct a factory deficiency.

You won't need the 'clutch pack', just a spring. http://www.lloydz.com/store/item_view.asp?estore_itemid=1000033 I hear that the complete Barnett unit "Creeps" in gear with the clutch in. The support plate is just added insurance. http://www.lloydz.com/store/item_view.asp?estore_itemid=1000007 That's all I have. $270 for both. Everything for this bike has been $300. I agree that you shouldn't have to do it. But if they won't step up.....

 

You won't need the 'clutch pack', just a spring. http://www.lloydz.com/store/item_view.asp?estore_itemid=1000033 I hear that the complete Barnett unit "Creeps" in gear with the clutch in. The support plate is just added insurance. http://www.lloydz.com/store/item_view.asp?estore_itemid=1000007 That's all I have. $270 for both. Everything for this bike has been $300. I agree that you shouldn't have to do it. But if they won't step up.....

That's exactly what I plan to do when I put in the cams, hopefully over the winter though that is our prime riding season here in FL

 

Vic clutch with the right oil will hold up to 120FtLb with no mods, and last 100K of abuse. Does not sound like a problem with the clutch to me

 

After extensive online searching, I will stick with Victory's oil. (No performance mods)

 

"I argued the same as you that ANY JASO MA/MA2 oil should work and if it doesn't then the part is defective and should be replaced, they didn't buy the argument." What part didn't they buy????? Per VICTORY'S own owners manual the recommendation on page 99 is Vic oil OR equivalent motorcycle oil that is approved for wet clutch transmissions such as those with a JASO MA rating.. So they are telling us that we can follow their own owners manual and they won't warranty an issue..?