Well, I meant not everyone is capable of beating someone senseless. But running in and yelling and causing a scene and attracting attention to what's going on immediately is something everyone can do.

 

To prove the power of Penn State, I offer this example; This pervert was caught showering with 2 young kids and observed sexually touching them. The D.A. was informed of this felony and no charges were brought. That is against the law in itself. This scumbag has been molesting children for at least 15 years.

 

I don't know, I just don't remember this kind of thing being a problem when I was younger as it is now. I realize people are more informed and connected now, but even back then when something like that happened it spread like wild fire and there was one, maybe two, instance(s) where something like that happened. It seems things like this are on the rise and I am left wondering in this softer, everyone is a winner and deserves fair treatment, emasculated society we have now if these sick, demented perverted psychos act out more now because they feel they are "ill" and need help and do not take responsibility for their actions in a society that has said, time and time again, it's not the fault of the person but the fault of the "illness." Food for thought.

 

I don't know, I just don't remember this kind of thing being a problem when I was younger as it is now. I realize people are more informed and connected now, but even back then when something like that happened it spread like wild fire and there was one, maybe two, instance(s) where something like that happened. It seems things like this are on the rise and I am left wondering in this softer, everyone is a winner and deserves fair treatment, emasculated society we have now if these sick, demented perverted psychos act out more now because they feel they are "ill" and need help and do not take responsibility for their actions in a society that has said, time and time again, it's not the fault of the person but the fault of the "illness." Food for thought.

I do not agree. There is NO justification for child sexual predators. No one defends this as a sickness that can be cured. That's why sexual predators have to register when they get out of jail and have strict limitations as to where they can live. Child abusers are at great physical risk when they enter the penal system, which is probably the only thing that has any deterrence value. There were plenty of instances just like this occurring during my youth. Priests and politician have been doing these things for thousands of years. The Greeks and Romans were infamous for such sexual provocations. I dated 2 girls who confided in me that their fathers were sexually abusing them. I reported both of them to other family members and both sicko's spent a few years in jail. The wife of one of them was super pissed at me for exposing this, and she welcomed him back into their lives when he was released. In my estimation, the children should have been removed from her too.

 

I was making a statement as to how the PREDATORS think of themselves as the victims with a "sickness" in this society where no one seems accountable for their own actions it's always the fault of an illness or a condition. I was NOT justifying that behavior, or saying there is a justification for that behavior, even remotely.

 

I dated 2 girls who confided in me that their fathers were sexually abusing them. I reported both of them to other family members and both sicko's spent a few years in jail. The wife of one of them was super pissed at me for exposing this, and she welcomed him back into their lives when he was released. In my estimation, the children should have been removed from her too.

Do you really want me to express the irony in this above statement as it relates to those who are condemning Joe Paterno for "only" following the law and reporting what he heard to his superiors?

 

Well, I meant not everyone is capable of beating someone senseless. But running in and yelling and causing a scene and attracting attention to what's going on immediately is something everyone can do.

Gotcha!

 

whether the team should even finish the season.

That is one of the most ridiculous & flat out stupid statements I have ever read. Even for you Biggie - a knee jerk reactionary - that is over the top dumb. The players on the Penn St. football team have nothing to do with what Jerry Sandusky did. You do not punish the innocent players. FYI - Jerry Sandusky retired from Penn St. football in 1999.

 

Do you really want me to express the irony in this above statement as it relates to those who are condemning Joe Paterno for "only" following the law and reporting what he heard to his superiors?

Are you comparing a 16-17 year old's responsibility to basically the CEO of a 50 million dollar business? There wasn't even such a thing as calling 911 in my teenage years.

 

Paterno had come under increasing criticism - including from within the community known as Happy Valley - for not doing more to stop the alleged abuse by former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, who has been charged with molesting eight boys over 15 years. Some of the assaults took place at the Penn State football complex, including a 2002 incident witnessed by then-graduate assistant and current assistant coach Mike McQueary. McQueary went to Paterno and reported seeing Sandusky assaulting a young boy in the Penn State showers. Paterno notified the athletic director, Tim Curley, and a vice president, Gary Schultz, who in turn notified Spanier. Curley and Schultz have been charged with failing to report the incident to authorities, and Pennsylvania Attorney General Linda Kelly earlier this week refused to rule out charges against Spanier. Paterno is not a target of the criminal investigation, but the state police commissioner called his failure to contact police himself a lapse in "moral responsibility."

 

Are you comparing a 16-17 year old's responsibility to basically the CEO of a 50 million dollar business? There wasn't even such a thing as calling 911 in my teenage years.

Yes, I am....and I am quite dissapointed at your hypocrisy. What you did was the correct action, because you did what you thought was correct. It is Obvious That you have an agenda against this man when you use terms like "CEO of a $50 Million dollar business". Joe Paterno was a 73 year old man who thought he was doing the right thing. He is a FOOTBALL coach, not a CEO. He is a simple man with straight forward princicples and a non-bending character. He has admitted that, in hindsight, he wishes he had done more. He admits that he made an error. I know you do not care because you are obviously on a witch hunt, but the Ast coach who witnessed the action, was just a "kid" himself when this occurred, and it was reported to Joe Paterno as "horsing around", or "inappropriate activity".....but you choose to paint the picture as Joe Paterno was told graphically that a child was being raped. The words you choose show your agenda, and your passive aggressive nature to which you wish to paint a picture of perfect and higher moral character. You have your agenda and I am extremely dissapointed in your portrayal. I love how everyone can armchair quarterback this situation and in THEIR story they always manage to tell us how they would have never made a mistake and made all the right moves. I don't defend the actions or the outcome, but I will defend this man's character.

 

To add to the story, the ast. coach who witnessed the activity, was so shocked and confused, that he contacted his dad to ask him for advice. Those who believe that the human mind works in a perfect way really need to back up a step and do a little more learning, and a little less posting.

 

Mr. Phoenix, It does amaze me that you know more about this than everyone who has all the details and made the final decisions. The CEO, Head Coaches, Presidents, whatever always take responsibility for anything that happens under their leadership. I don't give a rats a$$ about Penn State or Joe Paterno and his beloved football team. All I care about is the children. Maybe you should sob for them instead of Joe. The sordid details will come out in due time.

 

You completely missed the point...Ignore your hypocrisy if that makes you feel better.

 

Paterno had come under increasing criticism - including from within the community known as Happy Valley - for not doing more to stop the alleged abuse by former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, who has been charged with molesting eight boys over 15 years. Some of the assaults took place at the Penn State football complex, including a 2002 incident witnessed by then-graduate assistant and current assistant coach Mike McQueary. McQueary went to Paterno and reported seeing Sandusky assaulting a young boy in the Penn State showers. Paterno notified the athletic director, Tim Curley, and a vice president, Gary Schultz, who in turn notified Spanier. Curley and Schultz have been charged with failing to report the incident to authorities, and Pennsylvania Attorney General Linda Kelly earlier this week refused to rule out charges against Spanier. Paterno is not a target of the criminal investigation, but the state police commissioner called his failure to contact police himself a lapse in "moral responsibility."

Ok Biggie - why did you underline the portion about Asst. Coach Mike McQueary? It's all over the news & it's part of the story. Everyone knows about Asst Coach Mike & what he saw in the shower in 2002. Why the underline? What's the point you are making?

 

Yes, I am....and I am quite dissapointed at your hypocrisy. What you did was the correct action, because you did what you thought was correct. It is Obvious That you have an agenda against this man when you use terms like "CEO of a $50 Million dollar business". Joe Paterno was a 73 year old man who thought he was doing the right thing. He is a FOOTBALL coach, not a CEO. He is a simple man with straight forward princicples and a non-bending moral character. He has admitted that, in hindsight, he wishes he had done more. He admits that he made an error. I know you do not care because you are obviously on a witch hunt, but the Ast coach who witnessed the action, was just a "kid" himself when this occurred, and it was reported to Joe Paterno as "horsing around", or "inappropriate activity".....but you choose to paint the picture as Joe Paterno was told graphically that a child was being raped. The words you choose show your agenda, and your passive aggressive nature to which you wish to paint a picture of perfect and higher moral character. You have your agenda and I am extremely dissapointed in your portrayal. I love how everyone can armchair quarterback this situation and in THEIR story they always manage to tell us how they would have never made a mistake and made all the right moves. I don't defend the actions or the outcome, but I will defend this man's character.

Bingo! Classic Biggie selective moral outrage.

 

FYI - Jerry Sandusky retired from Penn St. football in 1999.

 

In all the posts I have read from some of our members, this topic is one of the most passionate and seemingly biased. Were any of you an alumnus of Penn? Did you train under Joe Pa? Help me understand all this anger from an unusually well informed forum. Joe is personally OK, he just lost his job for a rather large mistake in judgement. This $1million dollar a year Coach allowed his employee to continue to be alone and naked with children in a facility where Joe's word was law. If Joe told the Dean to fire the man he would be fired. His silence was tantamount to complicity. Joe was relieved of his position, not charged with a crime. Nor has the University vilified him in the press. He had a position of responsibility and doing the minimum was deemed unacceptable by the school. Would you tell me what a great man of honor and integrity he was if one of the boys molested in the early 2000s was the son of a friend of mine? Believe me, I have no Liberal agenda on issues like this, because I think that first time offenders should get life in a prison psych ward. KG

 

Don't think there has been a single person on this thread that doesn't think Joe Paterno made a big mistake in judgement. Don never defended what Joe did, he just brought up the law requirements. I never defended the action, just an 84 year old guy's life and career....and just for the record (for the 2nd time) I have never been a fan of PSU, never lived in Pennsylvania, never went to school at PSU, never met the man. Why is it that if you recognize a man's quality life (while also agreeing that he made a big mistake) then by default you must be pro-child molestation? I also brought up the troubling state of mind that the young graduate assistant must have been in when he witnessed the event. I see posters talk about how they would turn into John Wayne, yet here was a kid, who witnessed an egregious action and he panicked. He had no idea what he should do....he called his dad because he was so confused.....but then again, he didn't have the benefit of reading about the incident on a forum board and taking a couple hours to compose his really cool response. Those who want to paint this situation as Black or White are going to have a really really really hard time.

 

The entire coaching staff is culpable and should be relieved of their duties. My 2cents.

 

Don't think there has been a single person on this thread that doesn't think Joe Paterno made a big mistake in judgement. Don never defended what Joe did, he just brought up the law requirements. I never defended the action, just an 84 year old guy's life and career....and just for the record (for the 2nd time) I have never been a fan of PSU, never lived in Pennsylvania, never went to school at PSU, never met the man. Why is it that if you recognize a man's quality life (while also agreeing that he made a big mistake) then by default you must be pro-child molestation? I also brought up the troubling state of mind that the young graduate assistant must have been in when he witnessed the event. I see posters talk about how they would turn into John Wayne, yet here was a kid, who witnessed an egregious action and he panicked. He had no idea what he should do....he called his dad because he was so confused.....but then again, he didn't have the benefit of reading about the incident on a forum board and taking a couple hours to compose his really cool response. Those who want to paint this situation as Black or White are going to have a really really really hard time.

So, for comparison, Michael Jackson's household staff and security team were OK to let the crap he was doing continue? Or at worst, only made a mistake? As far as the Graduate student assistant coach, I can't read his mind (neither can you btw) but the dilemma seems more focused on job preservation than confusion. Any scene of a naked grown man touching a naked 11yo boy in a shower, doesn't take John Wayne to act like a man and do whats right. No one has said any VOG member supports child molestation, you are misinterpreting to help defend an untenable position. J. Paterno has no more moral standing as a football coach (to me) than a cashier at a supermarket. He was paid a ton as an educator, and did not meet the high standards of his institution and was fired. As far as allowing the team to play, I'm ambivalent personally, but i do know whole teams are disqualified if one recruiter offers one applicant a cash incentive and gets caught.

 

As far as allowing the team to play, I'm ambivalent personally, but i do know whole teams are disqualified if one recruiter offers one applicant a cash incentive and gets caught.

I cant see how ruining the lives of the current players would help anything. Most of the time when sanctions are handed down to whole teams it is because it effects the current team. If not sanctions are passed down to individual players and coaches, like in the instance of Miami this year. To hold a team responsible for something that happened a decade ago would not be fair. The people that are responsible should pay not the kids.

 

I cant see how ruining the lives of the current players would help anything. Most of the time when sanctions are handed down to whole teams it is because it effects the current team. If not sanctions are passed down to individual players and coaches, like in the instance of Miami this year. To hold a team responsible for something that happened a decade ago would not be fair. The people that are responsible should pay not the kids.

Like I said, I'm ambivalent, but it wouldn't be the first time the actions of a few changed the lives of many on a College football team. And Don, do you really believe NOT playing a season of ball "Ruins" lives? Whats with the drama? I was responding to the position that it would be a ridiculous position to take the team out of play for the actions of: two assistant coaches, one head coach, two administrators and the president of the Institution. "Originally posted by Bigfoot: whether the team should even finish the season. Then Ddawg replied: That is one of the most ridiculous & flat out stupid statements I have ever read. Even for you Biggie - a knee jerk reactionary - that is over the top dumb. The players on the Penn St. football team have nothing to do with what Jerry Sandusky did. You do not punish the innocent players. FYI - Jerry Sandusky retired from Penn St. football in 1999."

 

And Don, do you really believe NOT playing a season of ball "Ruins" lives? Whats with the drama?

Yes it would, you have to look at the big picture. I went to college on a full ride baseball scholarship and schools do not have to honor scholarships if the program is sanctioned. If they sanction the whole team these kids lose their money for the year (the sanctions would start next year after appeals). A few of them probably have rich enough families to pay their tuition but the rest would have to fend for themselves and out of State tuition is close to $30k without books or lab fees or dorms. If this had happened to me I would not be where I am today. So the sanctions would only effect the poor people and we cant have that in this day and age....

 

............ Then Phoenix replied: That is one of the most ridiculous & flat out stupid statements I have ever read. Even for you Biggie - a knee jerk reactionary - that is over the top dumb. The players on the Penn St. football team have nothing to do with what Jerry Sandusky did. You do not punish the innocent players. FYI - Jerry Sandusky retired from Penn St. football in 1999."

That's interesting. I never made that statement. I have never made a similar statement ANYWHERE in this thread.