[samsplace]

Says Indian and Honda lowering prices .... Didn't see that at the Indian Dealer...

Harley sees stock sink after warning Wall Street of steeper competition, missing estimates

 

[FoFo]

That probably means they will wind down operations.

 

[FoFo]

Interesting, revenue down, but net income up. Say what you will about the bike, but management knows what it's doing. They saw sales slowing, so they found ways to reduce costs and ultimately increase their bottom line. It's almost like running a business.

Whatever Polaris!

 

[40caliber]

The liquidation of all the victories could have a dampening effect on prices as well. I know there was talk about polaris trying to give trade support to victory traders to indian to kee'capture market share

 

[ETrider]

I know there was talk about polaris trying to give trade support to victory traders to indian to kee'capture market share

When everything is said and done, you can be sure more was said than done.

 

[FoFo]

When everything is said and done, you can be sure more was said than done.

Well said.

 

[rodhotter]

a friend of mine formerly a small ducati dealer mentioned how motorcycle manufactures lie when guestimating sales, + consider models on dealer floors sold. many outdoor toy sales slow this time of year as its quite cold, with snow + ice in many parts of the USA. for every big indian sold thats likely one less HD, a good thing as too much of anything is just too much!!

 

[Oldman47]

HD sales have been down every quarter for several years now. I am happy to see they have figured out a way to show a profit through financial engineering but would feel better about their future if it was through increased sales instead.
I am, in general terms, a stockholder in my IRA but no way a HOG stockholder. HOG stock is like so many other companies recently who maintain stock profits per share by buying back shares to reduce the number of owners that share in the results of their sales. That is OK while I am a very minor owner but what happens when I end up being a major holder because of their actions? Frankly I do not consider financial engineering as a positive for anything that I own.

 

[poppamark]

When everything is said and done, you can be sure more was said than done.

I'm done.

 

[rodhotter]

well put OM, corporations are quite shifty to say the least!!! being into health + nutrition for years + reading a lot its amazing what big multinational corporations get away with by lobbying aka paying the right people to make the right laws + closing their eyes to anything that does not benefit $$$$. a lot going on with vaccines these days as 3 times as many are given compared to years ago + many times ruining young lives all for $$$. vaccines containing thimerosal a preservative which contains MERCURY, the amount ot mercury received in multiple doses exceeds safe limits!!!! they average it out making it sound less. big pharma is surely a killer for $$$$$ where our lives mean oooooooooooo!!! i can't forget amalgams, the dental filling comprised of 50% MERCURY, now outlawed in some countries, but not USA!!!!

 

[1stVictory]

Interesting, revenue down, but net income up. Say what you will about the bike, but management knows what it's doing. They saw sales slowing, so they found ways to reduce costs and ultimately increase their bottom line.

Bike sales down. T-shirt sales up. How many shirt sales = the profit on a bike?

Not everyone can afford the bike but they continually buy those stupid shirts. In droves.

 

[rodhotter]

cheaper than ***** shirts, yes but you are sooooo right

 

[40caliber]

When everything is said and done, you can be sure more was said than done.

They currently have a $2000 rebate and $2000 from the factory to the dealer for victories and last year they added $1500 for any non indian traded for an indian. If they just renewed last years indian trade money, it would be " done."

 

[ETrider]

I know there was talk about polaris trying to give trade support to victory traders to indian to kee'capture market share

last year they added $1500 for any non indian traded for an indian.

I didn't know about the Indian deals.

However, giving rebates to all "non Indian" trades does not obtain to preferential treatment given exclusively to Vic traders implied in your "trade support to victory traders" statement. I'm not impressed with deals given to all customers except those who've already purchased your mark.

When they give deals to guys trading in Vics that they won't give anyone else, then I'll be surprised.

 

[poppamark]

Ya then you could trade your perfectly good vic for an over priced too small retro lookin piece of ...

 

[2edgesword]

Until this economy really turns around I don't anticipate any company that is in the business of sell relatively expensive motorcycles is going to be doing a gangbuster business. If Polaris only sold 10,000 bikes a year, even if Harley got half that business, it's not going to significantly impact their total sales (HD sells ~260K units per year). I don't think HD is considering a pick up of former Victory buyers as have a meaningful impact for them (although better to gain them than not). Holding onto that business (lost Victory sales) means much more to Polaris, via sales of Indian motorcycles, then it does to HD.

 

[ETrider]

Holding onto that business (lost Victory sales) means much more to Polaris, via sales of Indian motorcycles, then it does to HD.

I agree...though one would hardly discern that from the flippant and disingenuous way in which Polaris orchestrated the demise of Victory (over a period of years) and then implemented this decision.

 

[2edgesword]

I agree...though one would hardly discern that from the flippant and disingenuous way in which Polaris orchestrated the demise of Victory (over a period of years) and then implemented this decision.

I think HD has a tough road ahead of them but since motorcycles is there only business there is little chance you will see the end of the HD brand even if economic growth remains stagnant.

On the other hand Victory was a relatively small segment of the Polaris universe. While a lot hadn't been put into the Victory line over the last few years, resources diverted to launch the Indian line, I have to believe that once Indian was up and running they were going to add the support need to maintain and grow the Victory brand. There was a lot invested in developing the Octane and a lot of rumors that they were working on something bigger for the Victory cruiser/touring class.

I think the length and weakness of the economic "recovery", cost of buying and developing the Indian brand and the huge drain the recalls had reached a tipping point forcing their hand to cut something and the Victory line, as painful as it was for those inside Polaris who worked to develop, build and market the brand, and those on the outside, riders devoted to the brand, it was the only place to cut that would free enough resources to deal with the financial issues they are facing. Beyond that it was, as far as business politics is concerned, easier to justify cutting a line that had been around for 18 years with revenue that remained relatively flat versus cutting new products (Slingshot and Indian) that you promoted as big revenue generators as recently as 3 or 4 years ago.

 

[Oldman47]

The HD execs took advantage of a publicity opportunity today by arriving at the White House on a couple of HDs. They had been invited for lunch.

 

[rodhotter]

the USA bailed them out years ago or they may not be here today!!! big money always has connections + that recent donation aka fine gotta be worth a free meal anyhow!!!!!