[bd14cct]

Hey guys, looking for your input on this situation please. I brought my XCT to a shop/ tuner that I will not name for now. They did an oil change, plugs, Lloydz 505 cams, and Dyno tuned it.
On my way home from the shop, a few times when I was twisting the throttle, the bike felt like it was stuttering or maybe even misfiring. At that point it was too late in the day to bring the bike back to them and they are quite a ways away from me. I put new plug wires on it hoping it would save me from having to bring the bike to them.
Nope, I took the bike out again and it still ran like crap, but to make matters worse, now the clutch is slipping too!!!! So I start reading around and hear of a few Victory owners that had clutch problems after switching to full synthetic Amsoil.

 

[Chattanooga_Mark]

My advice is:
1. Only use a semi synthetic JASO-MA/2 rated oil. I could care less what the Amsoil fanboys/resellers/marketing has to say.

2. You may need to add some free play to your clutch. These bikes need more clutch free play than you think would be needed.

3. It sounds like the tune they gave you has some issues. That in and of itself isn’t a deal breaker. Maybe they ran out of time or they just downloaded a ‘canned’ tune, ie: someone else’s. If so, that seems lazy on their part. Is the tune through a Power Commander PCV or a Maximus directly to the ECM?

What made you decide on the 505 cams versus the 501’s or the Andrews cams?

I don’t need all the digits on one hand to count off all those I’d trust to tune my Victory. My Maximus kit from @NOEMTZ came in today. I’ll be removing the oem O2 sensors tonight and calling Noe in the morning.

 

[MagVic CCT]

Dyno tuned it with What?

 

[bd14cct]

I changed the oil myself back to Victory oil and VOILA, no more clutch slipping. But the bike still runs like crap. I of course told the mechanic about that, and he assured me that Amsoil does not cause problems for Victory's.
Anyway, I bring the bike back to them and they call me and say that the bike runs like crap and there's no way it left their shop like that. He says the fuel pump is failing and it's gonna take awhile to get a new one/ rebuild kit.
Am I crazy for being suspicious? I mean I cured the clutch slipping by putting the recommended oil back in it, and also checked the free play of the clutch just to be sure. But when he called me he blamed the slipping clutch on the free play. On top of that, the bike was stuttering within a few miles of leaving their shop. Obviously I'm bummed, and I hate to automatically assume the worst, but does any of this sound fishy to you guys???

 

[bd14cct]

They tune the ECM directly, not sure with what.

 

[MagVic CCT]

You have to ask yourself, how can they (especially if not a Victory mechanic with proper software) access the ECU? Only way I know of is with Maximus and you can do it with dyno, but if they know what they are doing, don't have to. What about other factors, such as intake and exhaust? And if they say that freeplay is causing a slipping clutch, then you are dealing with morons. Too much free play will make it difficult to shift and/or make the bike want to take off even when clutch lever is pulled, but will not cause slippage. Cable too tight can cause slippage as clutch may not be fully engaged. Bad fuel pump? They know this over the phone? Has anyone put a meter on it testing the pressure? You are being screwed and about to need to provide your own vasoline.

 

[Chattanooga_Mark]

Are they by chance a H-D tuning shop that specializes in Powervision (for H-D, not for Victory) tuning software? Or did they get you a Maximus license from TechnoResearch? If they somehow broke into your ECM on their own, that could be a real problem.

How long before you can get the bike back to them for them to see the bike’s tune is off? Give them an opportunity to make things right.

A bad fuel pump likely wouldn’t only be bad at certain rpm range.

 

[bd14cct]

The bike is with them now. I had issues as soon as I left their shop but they are blaming a bad fuel pump. It is certainly possible but the fact that it ran like crap as soon as I picked up the bike the first time and they say no way it left their shop like that makes me suspicious. To me, if it were a bad fuel pump, they would have had issues on the Dyno. The bike runs great except for a small range of a few hundred RPM where it sputters. Interestingly, the RPMs where it sputters correspond with a dip in power on the Dyno sheet

 

[normthenomad]

Don't believe I'd leave MY motorcycle at that shop.
I'd certainly ask them how they did a "tune" with the stock ECM in place.

 

[Bikesofbrads]

the RPMs where it sputters correspond with a dip in power on the Dyno sheet

What air filter / exhaust are you running, matching wrong parts can do that as well. Maybe a iav & a tps reset would clear up that rough running patch

 

[shoman94]

I'm with everyone here. I certainly don't believe a failing fuel pump will cause some stutter in specific RPMs.

 

[bd14cct]

I am of the same mindset although I am no mechanic. Just seems shady that the bike ran absolutely fine until it went to their shop. I solved the clutch slipping and they won't admit that the oil was the cause. The bike was stuttering at certain RPMs as soon as I picked it up from them and it's a fuel pump? I would think that a bad fuel pump would cause starting issues and if anything, would maybe cause stuttering at full throttle when fuel demands are highest. My bike is stuttering around 2700-2900 rpm. Either way, I feel like I have no choice but to let this guy continue working on it, but damn do I have a bad taste in my mouth about all of this. I'm just not sure I feel comfortable bringing it to someone who doesn't know what this guy did in the ECU.

 

[Alwhite00]

What were the dyno numbers?
My tuning guy said he would rather get in the ecm and tune (I don’t recall what he used but basically a $200 license fee to get in.) I had already purchased a tuner so he used that.

 

[Chattanooga_Mark]

The only license I know of that allows direct tuning to your Victory ECM is called Maximus, from TechnoResearch.

There are several Power Commander type add on boxes (PCV, PC6, the old Lloyds boxes etc) that go between your ECM and the coils & injectors.

A stutter specifically between 2700 to 2900 rpm seems odd because the bike is, or should be, spending a lot of time between 2700 to 3300 rpm.

I suspect the shop re-tuning this particular bike will get it sorted out via their tune, not a fuel pump.

 

[wvrider1]

Did the Dyno operator ride the bike when he was done? If not, I'm not sure how many chances he would get.

 

[shoman94]

I am of the same mindset although I am no mechanic. Just seems shady that the bike ran absolutely fine until it went to their shop. I solved the clutch slipping and they won't admit that the oil was the cause. The bike was stuttering at certain RPMs as soon as I picked it up from them and it's a fuel pump? I would think that a bad fuel pump would cause starting issues and if anything, would maybe cause stuttering at full throttle when fuel demands are highest. My bike is stuttering around 2700-2900 rpm. Either way, I feel like I have no choice but to let this guy continue working on it, but damn do I have a bad taste in my mouth about all of this. I'm just not sure I feel comfortable bringing it to someone who doesn't know what this guy did in the ECU.

What was the outcome with this?

 

[bd14cct]

Although I still have my doubts about what really happened, I ended up paying for a OEM fuel pump and labor and they re-tuned the bike. A horrendous experience overall, but I am happy to put it behind me and have a stronger running bike... Although I'm already wondering about an underdrive pulley. Doesn't take long to get used to extra power!

 

[bd14cct]

The baseline run showed 86.7hp/ 110.8ft-lbs.
Initial tune showed 110.6hp/ 122.9ft-lbs.
After fuel pump and re-tuned it came up to 116hp/ 127.3ft-lbs. So yeah it was a long road but I'm satisfied.

 

[shoman94]

116/127 holy crap!

 

[slickvic]

That’s a generous dynamometer. With 505 cams you’re not doing better than 116 ft lbs realistically. Do we know yet what tuner was used to tune your bike ?