I get it. Biggie hits on the head my observation. The jobs are not here anymore and will not come back in the form we are used to seeing. I don't care about regulations. If I can get a machine to work 24/7 and not ask for a lunch break, a shop steward, or vacation, he is hired.

I think that the point you are making is that the "old" jobs are no longer to be found. Yes, many companies are seeking candidates for "skilled" jobs. But skilled today is not what is was 20 years ago. Back then, skilled meant that you could operate a machine. Today it means that you can program it. If you want to have a job today, you need to have the types of skills that companies are seeking. I saw a story on the news yesterday that Siemans was having difficultly filling 3,400 jobs in the USA as they cannot find qualified candidates. They are paying well for these jobs, but need people who have the skills to work in a 21st century environment.

 

Yeah! What he said :thumbup1:

 

I get it. Biggie hits on the head my observation. The jobs are not here anymore and will not come back in the form we are used to seeing. I don't care about regulations. If I can get a machine to work 24/7 and not ask for a lunch break, a shop steward, or vacation, he is hired. Great example! My trash guy used to have 3 guys hanging on the truck. Now my one guy with the camera and articulating arm goes as fast or faster. 3 full salaries and benefit packages buys a lot of articulating arms a year. I figure the retrofitted trucks are paid for in a year easy. To be perfectly honest, I really do not wish to live in a nation without EEOC, OSHA, disability insurance and workers comp. We have all these things because when we did not have them, business proved just how badly it would act if allowed to abuse and ignore workers. I think there are many, (not singling any one person or group)That still think the W.Virgina coal mines 75 years ago were just fine and the company store was really convenient for the workers. Workers had to organize or die. Unions have simply outlived their usefulness. Now they are a drain on the economy. Why? because public employees should not be allowed to be a union. You don't want to work for the government? Don't. The government does not make a profit. Every demand is another reach into my pocket. The pendulum has gone too far the other way. Unfortunately take away the regulations and business will again teach us just what its ugly definition of fair is. I agree, Obamacare is a horrible violation of my rights. The very idea that a government can threaten a citizen with jail or fines not to buy a private product makes me cringe.

What kind of backassward logic are you spitballin here? according you logic, there won't be any need for the EEOC or OSHA........There won't BE anymore workers to protect. Just machines. Mayberry

 

Warning!!! Long drawn out post to make a point to our Anti Government Friend: This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the food and drug administration. At the appropriate time as regulated by the US congress and kept accurate by the national institute of standards and technology and the US naval observatory, I get into my national highway traffic safety administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the environmental protection agency, using legal tender issed by the federal reserve bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US postal service and drop the kids off at the public school. After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the department of labor and the occupational safety and health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to ny house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all it's valuables thanks to the local police department. I then log on to the internet which was developed by the defense advanced research projects administration and post on freerepublic.com and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM IS RUINING THIS COUNTRY

The points Keith Gray makes are valid - true - and I agree with. Up till the last paragraph where you become TIC (sarcastic). That's Ok - sarcasm is fun & it helps makes your point. I do not believe that Govt. is bad. Unlimited & all powerful Govt. that is not responsive to the will & desire of the people it governs is bad. It is true - the Govt. does many wonderful things - because they have the power to tax & do projects with our collective money. But - where does all the money come from to "do" all the wonderful projects you list in your post? From private enterprise of course. The private sector. Let me emphasize - the Successful & Profitable Private Sector. I do not dislike Govt. I don't know if you lump me into the "anti-govt." category. If you do, it's not accurate nor true. I love our Constitution & our Govt. that comes from that document. Let's get back to basics - what is the point & purpose of our Constitution? It is a Govt. Limiting document. That was the purpose of our Founding Fathers - to limit the Govt. that they established! Remember the Revolutionary War? Of course. Why did the Founding Father break away from England? Because the Govt. of England stuck their "Govt. hand" too deep into our pockets too many times. It's that simple. Enough was enough. So - Govt. is not bad - Govt. is good & does good - when it is controlled & limited. Here is the crux - exactly where is that balance / limiting point between Govt. & the private sector? That is the precise point of discussion. That is the battleground. Remember - in taxing & regulating - you must be VERY CAREFUL - you cannot kill the goose that lays the "Golden Egg." Obviously, that goose is a successful, profitable, private sector.

 

Warning!!! Long drawn out post to make a point to our Anti Government Friend: This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the food and drug administration. At the appropriate time as regulated by the US congress and kept accurate by the national institute of standards and technology and the US naval observatory, I get into my national highway traffic safety administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the environmental protection agency, using legal tender issed by the federal reserve bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US postal service and drop the kids off at the public school. After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the department of labor and the occupational safety and health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to ny house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all it's valuables thanks to the local police department. I then log on to the internet which was developed by the defense advanced research projects administration and post on freerepublic.com and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM IS RUINING THIS COUNTRY

I'm sorry. Your post was to long for me to finish. Maybe I'll take a nap and be back to finish it. Mayberry

 

I think that the point you are making is that the "old" jobs are no longer to be found. Yes, many companies are seeking candidates for "skilled" jobs. But skilled today is not what is was 20 years ago. Back then, skilled meant that you could operate a machine. Today it means that you can program it. If you want to have a job today, you need to have the types of skills that companies are seeking. I saw a story on the news yesterday that Siemans was having difficultly filling 3,400 jobs in the USA as they cannot find qualified candidates. They are paying well for these jobs, but need people who have the skills to work in a 21st century environment.

Here's the story:

 

After thinking about or unskilled work force, and reading Sax and Biggies posts I've been convinced. I've come to the conclusion that you guys are right. These people are doomed to a life of poverty and misery. Without an Education or vocational skills it's over. So why don't we just do the humane thing for them. We should round them all up, hurd them into the showers and crank up the gas. We need to end the suffering of their useless pathetic lives while they are still blissfully ignorant of the misery to come. OR!!!! Hey!......We could try that lowering the mimimum wage thingy! Maybe THEN they could LEARN useful job skill from employers that are willing to train them! Then maybe one day they could actually achieve excellence in a skilled field and make a pretty good living! NAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! That'll never work. Just Fu*king gas'em. Mayberry

 

OR!!!! Hey!......We could try that lowering the mimimum wage thingy! Maybe THEN they could LEARN useful job skill from employers that are willing to train them! Then maybe one day they could actually achieve excellence in a skilled field and make a pretty good living!

LOL, careful Shawn. a greedy self serving agenda is showing here. Certainly not yours of course, I mean some business man who thinks he has done employees a favor to teach them how to be more profitable for HIM,,,,but you know ,at indentured servant wages,,,

 

LOL, careful Shawn. a greedy self serving agenda is showing here. Certainly not yours of course, I mean some business man who thinks he has done employees a favor to teach them how to be more profitable for HIM,,,,but you know ,at indentured servant wages,,,

Its not greed... My industry has been hit hard by the raise in minimum wage. I cant find employees to work for $8 doing ditch digging because they can go to McDonalds and make the same wage. I cant afford to pay unskilled labor more then that so I just get rent a drunks or rent equipment to replace the worker. You guys dont realize that on top of his salary I am paying for his books and schooling in the FEAT program. This is not cheap, it works out to 3-4 bucks more an hour. In 4 years they would have a career and a skill. and no, I can not pay them more because my customers wont pay me more because I am a nice guy...

 

I don't have any problem with elimination of the minimum wage. Without education or vocational skills it is over. They are doomed to live in poverty. How did I misspeak? Don is willing to pay them a few dollars per hour once in a while. He is not the exception. That is the way it works. People with money want goods and services for cheap. Business ensures it is the cheapest to sell those goods and services. The unskilled worker is incidental. They will be treated only to the lowest level they will tolerate. The more hungry they are the more they will tolerate.

 

I don't have any problem with elimination of the minimum wage. Without education or vocational skills it is over. They are doomed to live in poverty. How did I misspeak? Don is willing to pay them a few dollars per hour once in a while. He is not the exception. That is the way it works. People with money want goods and services for cheap. Business ensures it is the cheapest to sell those goods and services. The unskilled worker is incidental. They will be treated only to the lowest level they will tolerate. The more hungry they are the more they will tolerate.

Thats the first time I can honestly say you lost me?

 

Its not greed...

Really, so you've decided to hire the most workers possible by dropping your profit margins where you are only earning 3x what your top guys make? Because that's what the Mason did who paid me $10 an hour to carry cinderblocks and dig footers back in the late 70s. He weathered his economic problems quite well, and all without a single homeless drug fiend or illegal. Extended unemployment, Disability for every punk kid who's Mom was about to lose her welfare, the illegal aliens some businesses with no sense of Patriotism Hire, these are the reason there aren't enough workers who will break their back for a few years learning a trade. At least thats what I think. I could be wrong.

 

Really, so you've decided to hire the most workers possible by dropping your profit margins where you are only earning 3x what your top guys make? Because that's what the Mason did who paid me $10 an hour to carry cinderblocks and dig footers back in the late 70s. He weathered his economic problems quite well, and all without a single homeless drug fiend or illegal. Extended unemployment, Disability for every punk kid who's Mom was about to lose her welfare, the illegal aliens some businesses with no sense of Patriotism Hire, these are the reason there aren't enough workers who will break their back for a few years learning a trade. At least thats what I think. I could be wrong.

First, I do not make 3x what my top guys make, they make more then me because I pay them on a bonus system. Trust me, I get perks but draw a very small salary. My point was that I can not find unskilled labor that is willing to go through training for as little as I can afford to pay them. I would love to start everyone at 100k a year but I would be out of business. An $8.00 hr employee cost me $3.35 hr to send to school so in reality I am paying him $12.35. But he doesnt care and doesnt think school cost money, he just cares about his check. With the raise in the minimum wage he gets about the same bagging groceries which is allot easier and air conditioned so he goes there. He is not thinking about his future, heck I was there all I could think about was having enough money to go out on Friday night to the DQ and get a 12 pack of beer afterwards. and an FYI, my profit margin when I hard bid a project is 0%, I hope to make it up with doing the job efficently and buying out the commodities. Lastly, if I did make 3x my top guys who cares? I am the one taking the chance on every project, not them. If I go under they get another job.

 

Now the 'Bamster is blaming the economy on aliens from mars

 

First, I do not make 3x what my top guys make, they make more then me because I pay them on a bonus system. Trust me, I get perks but draw a very small salary. My point was that I can not find unskilled labor that is willing to go through training for as little as I can afford to pay them. I would love to start everyone at 100k a year but I would be out of business. An $8.00 hr employee cost me $3.35 hr to send to school so in reality I am paying him $12.35. But he doesnt care and doesnt think school cost money, he just cares about his check. With the raise in the minimum wage he gets about the same bagging groceries which is allot easier and air conditioned so he goes there. He is not thinking about his future, heck I was there all I could think about was having enough money to go out on Friday night to the DQ and get a 12 pack of beer afterwards. and an FYI, my profit margin when I hard bid a project is 0%, I hope to make it up with doing the job efficently and buying out the commodities. Lastly, if I did make 3x my top guys who cares? I am the one taking the chance on every project, not them. If I go under they get another job.

You're never going to convince a Marxist that you are not the Greedy Business man he believes you are. It's a loosing battle. He doesn't get it and never will. Mayberry

 

LOL, careful Shawn. a greedy self serving agenda is showing here. Certainly not yours of course, I mean some business man who thinks he has done employees a favor to teach them how to be more profitable for HIM,,,,but you know ,at indentured servant wages,,,

Uuuhhhhhh........How do you think "I" Learned? I have no College degree. My father was a Master Chief in the Navy. No Silver spoon here. I learned to drive truck by offering to do it part time for NOTHING. I wanted the license so that I would have a skill to market. Now I didn't think of it in those terms at the time. I was just a kid. But that's exactly what I did though. By the way. Is there something WRONG with making a "Profit" Kieth? To a small guy like me, Profit is really just another word for "Wage". After I pay every bill in life that I incur for a given month, what it left is "Profit". That's what I use to put food on the family table, invest back into my business or retirement, or pay for my kids College. You would have me feel guilty for that? This makes me a "Self serving" person? Mayberry

 

I got news for all you so called or self called rich guys on this forum. You don't make squat compared to the guys on Wall Street. There are guys running Wall Street "funds" that make a Billion dollars a year and pay Federal Taxes at the 15% rate. These are the top 2%ers, not you. Now here is something to think about, and it is Shawn's constant gripe. The bottom 51% don't pay Federal Taxes. IF the Bush Tax cuts, now the Obama tax cuts were to expire, the increased tax revenue would equal 1/2 of the Gross pay of the bottom 51%. Put another way. If the bottom 51% were to pay Federal Taxes at a 50% rate, it would equal the same amount of Federal income tax revenue from the elimination of the Bush/Obama tax cuts. You can't get blood out of a turnip. Income tax revenue is presently at 14% of GDP. Historically, it is 18%. WE HAVE A REVENUE PROBLEM.

 

I got news for all you so called or self called rich guys on this forum. You don't make squat compared to the guys on Wall Street. There are guys running Wall Street "funds" that make a Billion dollars a year and pay Federal Taxes at the 15% rate. These are the top 2%ers, not you. Now here is something to think about, and it is Shawn's constant gripe. The bottom 51% don't pay Federal Taxes. IF the Bush Tax cuts, now the Obama tax cuts were to expire, the increased tax revenue would equal 1/2 of the Gross pay of the bottom 51%. Put another way. If the bottom 51% were to pay Federal Taxes at a 50% rate, it would equal the same amount of Federal income tax revenue from the elimination of the Bush/Obama tax cuts. You can't get blood out of a turnip. Income tax revenue is presently at 14% of GDP. Historically, it is 18%. WE HAVE A REVENUE PROBLEM.

But to put it another way: If the bottom 51% paid something that should raise the GDP back up to 18%. We dont have a REVENUE problem we have a spending problem... Where do you come up with this crap?

 

Shawn of Mayberry wrote; 3) Drilling. Have you noticed that you haven't seen much in the way of stories about the Gulf Oil Spill lately? Why I wonder? Because you know damn well that the Greenies would not be able to help themselves if there was still a wide spread problem down there. They wouldn't miss a single chance to cast the Oil companies as greedy, heartless polluters. Same thing with natural gas. There is no reason we should be paying $4.00 a Gallon right now. First, I'm paying $3.47 per gallon. Try watching some educational channels once in a while. Shell oil in Africa is a MASSIVE polluter, because there aren't any regulations to prevent them from doing so. Here you will find a list of the most recent World-wide oil spills. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_spills Video of the African devastation. http://www.reuters.com/video/2011/08/04/un-report-slams-shell-for-nigeria-oil-po?videoId=217897922 Another Video, more graphic (I wonder why?) http://english.aljazeera.net/video/africa/2011/08/2011812145513678643.html

 

First, I'm paying $3.47 per gallon.

You run regular in your bike? Shame on you...

 

Satxron wrote; I agree, Obamacare is a horrible violation of my rights. The very idea that a government can threaten a citizen with jail or fines not to buy a private product makes me cringe. There was NEVER any jail time associated with the bill. The fine was a maximum of $600.00

 

Satxron wrote; I agree, Obamacare is a horrible violation of my rights. The very idea that a government can threaten a citizen with jail or fines not to buy a private product makes me cringe. There was NEVER any jail time associated with the bill. The fine was a maximum of $600.00

and if you dont pay the fine? Now you are in violation of a Court order and can be put in jail...

 

KeithGrey wrote; This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the food and drug administration. At the appropriate time as regulated by the US congress and kept accurate by the national institute of standards and technology and the US naval observatory, I get into my national highway traffic safety administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the environmental protection agency, using legal tender issed by the federal reserve bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US postal service and drop the kids off at the public school. After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the department of labor and the occupational safety and health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to ny house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all it's valuables thanks to the local police department. I then log on to the internet which was developed by the defense advanced research projects administration and post on freerepublic.com and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM IS RUINING THIS COUNTRY Yep, what he said. unk: I'm sure that he forgot a few other socialist things too.

 

Shawn of Mayberry wrote; You could start with abolishing the minimum wage. New hires very often are not worth the minimum wage. They have no job skills and need to be fully trained. You want me to pay a kid right out of high School $8.50 an hour? Honestly Shawn, how does a person with an $8.50 job (you want to pay him less), stimulate the economy? $17,000 per year and no benefits? We don't need those kinds of jobs, we need middle class jobs that will suport a family. You know; Buy food Pay rent Buy clothes Pay utilities Never mind, scratch the last two because the money's gone.

 

Mayberry wrote; I'm sorry. Your post was to long for me to finish. Maybe I'll take a nap and be back to finish it. And you make my point. Republicans can't be free thinkers. They can't stay focused on complex issues. They can only handle 3 and 4 word phrases taught to them by Faux News. NO MORE TAXES DON'T KILL GRANDMA GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE HANDS OFF MY MEDICARE (recently changed to eliminate Medicare) If it can't fit on a bumper sticker, it can't stick in their brain.