More cars were sold in China than in the USA in 2009 and again in 2010. China will most likely remain the #1 market for autos for the foreseeable future. Would you prefer our businesses be kept out of that market?

That's an interesting question. Why would I prefer GM not sell cars in China? What would prompt a question of that nature?

 

Now I know I read somewhere on this forum that Doctors were leaving their practices by the droves because Medicare was bankrupting them.:wink:

From the New England Journal of Medicine - argue with them" "ObamaCare: 46% of Primary Care Physicians Will Quit According to New England Journal of Medicine" By Scott Schaefer The New England Journal of Medicine reports in its March-April 2010 issue that 46.3% of Primary Care Physicians will likely leave the practice of medicine if ObamaCare passes. What a raging endorsement for Obama's health care reform plan from the liberal leaning NEJM. The Dear Leader and leading socialists - I'm sorry, Democrats - should be so proud. They should also be so proud for finding every parliamentary trick available to back door into passing this legislation. Back door being a key phrase, because that's where they are sticking it to Americans. The Democrats clearly don't have the courage of their convictions, which is no surprise, because they have no convictions. Before you Democrats out there cast your final vote on ObamaCare this week, consider the results of the New England Journal of Medicine study; just another of the unintended consequences of the worst legislation ever in America. Also, consider the rest of the results of the survey: Physician Support of Health Reform in General 62.7% of physicians feel that health reform is needed but should be implemented in a more targeted, gradual way, as opposed to the sweeping overhaul that is in legislation. 28.7% of physicians are in favor of a public option. 3.6% of physicians prefer the "status quo" and feel that the U.S. health care system is best "as is. Health Reform and Primary Care Physicians 46.3% of primary care physicians (family medicine and internal medicine) feel that the passing of health reform will either force them out of medicine or make them want to leave medicine. Health Reform, Public Option, and Practice Revenue (Physician Income) 41% of physicians feel that income and practice revenue will "decline or worsen dramatically" with a public option. 30% feel income will "decline or worsen somewhat" with a public option. 9% feel income will "improve somewhat" with a public option, and 0.8% feel income will "improve dramatically" with a public option. Health Reform, Public Option, and Physician Supply 72% of physicians feel that a public option would have a negative impact on physician supply, with 45% feeling it will "decline or worsen dramatically" and 27% predicting it will "decline or worsen somewhat. 24% of physicians think they will try to retire early if a public option is implemented. 21% of physicians would try to leave medicine if a public option is implemented, even if not near retirement age at the time. Health Reform and Recommending Medicine to Others as a Career 36% of physicians would not recommend medicine as a career, regardless of health reform. 27% would recommend medicine as a career but not if health reform passes. 25% of physicians would recommend medicine as a career regardless of health reform. 12% would not recommend medicine as a career now but feel that they would recommend it as a career if health reform passes"

 

Here is an interesting read on Ford in China and it's Chinese partners, http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2010/09/ford-will-build-a-second-engine-plant-in-china/ and from here; http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/25/business/la-fi-autos-gm-20110125 GM's China sales top U.S. total, a first for the automaker General Motors' sales in China increased nearly 29% in 2010 while U.S. sales rose just 6%. GM is one of the best-positioned automakers in emerging markets, even better than Toyota, says one expert. January 25, 2011|By Jerry Hirsch, Los Angeles Times What's good for China has been good for General Motors Co. GM sold more cars and trucks in China than it did in the U.S. last year, marking the first time that a foreign market has outpaced the automaker's domestic sales in its 102-year history.

Can't believe you and I are on the same side of this arguement! Thanks for posting the article though. The first paragraph addresses EXACTLY what I've been talking about. American businesses don't like to talk about this much. It would be VERY BAD for there image here at home if this were widely known. Bottom line though......We get what we deserve. If we're going to allow them to bend us over like this, then we deserve to lose the jobs. If there are going to place such "Over-the-top" kinds of demands on US companies doing business there.........Then I'm with Don. We shouldn't back away from making demands of them as a condition of doing business here. Personally, I don't ask for much. Just one of there legal aged Chinese Gymnasts to squeeze my face with her thighs. Shawn from Mayberry.

 

Obama care passed about a year ago. The repeal failed. It is still heading forward at full speed. The court did not stop it. Did they quit or are you just pasting crap for something to do? A real estate agent with a blog and an article from a year ago? Sheesh! I keep my eyes open and have not seen a single thing about doctors quitting. Or do they mean when its implemented in a few years giving them a chance to make another few million? What a crock of crap. Fear mongering is the Republicans favorite tool. That is why people have simply had a full belly of this stuff. It is nauseating. I am still being vigilant and looking for any day now for them to find WMDs in Iraq roflmao. Obama care sucks because we are ordered to buy something by the government. That is it, there ain't no more. Stop arguing if its good or bad. It is not constitutional! Sometimes I think the Republicans are always gonna be the dumbest people in the room. They get drawn into arguments about peripheral stuff and forgot what the real issues were. I question if they ever really knew what the real issues were or are. The issue has nothing to do with breaking the bank, doctors, or the quality of care. They don't have the right to do it! Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Crap! Nobody with above room temperature IQ believes 1/2 the doctors are gonna quit. I can just see that brain surgeon now. "Dang Obama Care! That does it, I am going to be a 7th grade science teacher instead!" But say it to the fringe, not too bright, folks and you can scare the bejesus outta them. You know the ones, the ones that pass on the emails that Obama is not a citizen. As if that matters two years post election. lol Biggie, you are are real pain. You throw up this stuff, watch Shawn bite at it then sit back and laugh at him.

 

Obama care passed about a year ago. The repeal failed. It is still heading forward at full speed. The court did not stop it. Did they quit or are you just pasting crap for something to do? A real estate agent with a blog and an article from a year ago? Sheesh! I keep my eyes open and have not seen a single thing about doctors quitting. Or do they mean when its implemented in a few years giving them a chance to make another few million? What a crock of crap. Fear mongering is the Republicans favorite tool. That is why people have simply had a full belly of this stuff. It is nauseating. I am still being vigilant and looking for any day now for them to find WMDs in Iraq roflmao. Obama care sucks because we are ordered to buy something by the government. That is it, there ain't no more. Stop arguing if its good or bad. It is not constitutional! Sometimes I think the Republicans are always gonna be the dumbest people in the room. They get drawn into arguments about peripheral stuff and forgot what the real issues were. I question if they ever really knew what the real issues were or are. The issue has nothing to do with breaking the bank, doctors, or the quality of care. They don't have the right to do it! Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Crap! Nobody with above room temperature IQ believes 1/2 the doctors are gonna quit. I can just see that brain surgeon now. "Dang Obama Care! That does it, I am going to be a 7th grade science teacher instead!" But say it to the fringe, not too bright, folks and you can scare the bejesus outta them. You know the ones, the ones that pass on the emails that Obama is not a citizen. As if that matters two years post election. lol Biggie, you are are real pain. You throw up this stuff, watch Shawn bite at it then sit back and laugh at him.

Doctors "Quiting" is only half the equation. Will we be enrolling FEWER medical students because of the Health Care Law? You need to put yourself in a very motivated and intelligent young persons shoes. Would you go into a highly regulated salery field with the amount of debt that you would leave School with at the end? I can't see enrollment for medical School going up in the future. I think that's probably a given. Shawn From Mayberry

 

The point was that China is a major consumer of products we make and sell. The post justified the original China assertion by you that the Chinese market is hotly sought after. Keep track of what you say please. Again please clarify the 51% assertion or was that just rambling?

Who are you talking to? Who needs to keep track of what they say?

 

Nobody with above room temperature IQ believes 1/2 the doctors are gonna quit.

Who believes that? Who believes 50% of all the doctors are going to quit. Apparently you have a very high opinion of your IQ - Mr. Einstein. So, who believes that?

 

Here's the latest for all you Obama Lover Boys - "Poll: Obama's approval hits new low" Half of the registered voters surveyed for the poll think that the president does not deserve a second term in office, while 41 percent say he does. In another Quinnipiac poll released just four weeks ago, 45 percent said the president did not deserve reelection, while 47 percent said he did. The decline in support for a second Obama term comes as his approval rating has dropped 4 percentage points since early March, landing at 42 percent - a record low - in the poll released Wednesday. His disapproval rating has risen from 46 percent to 48 percent. The downward shift may in part be the result of dissatisfaction over U.S involvement in Libya, with 47 percent of those surveyed saying they oppose it. By a margin of 58 percent to 29 percent, registered voters said that Obama has not clearly stated U.S. goals for the mission. The poll as conducted March 22-28 and surveyed 2,069 registered voters. The error margin is plus or minus 2.2 percentage points.

 

I could be wrong, but I am aware of no other Country that makes it a pre-condition that they must be 51% partner and have access to our companies technology to trade with them.

I have been trying to get the answer from Shawn on this. Forgot to put his name at the beginning of my sentence when I answered you on the China car thing and whats the point. I was responding to you when you posted that ridiculous poll from over a year ago that everybody knows has not come to be a reality. Apparently you believe 46% of the primary care doctors are going to quit or you would not have posted that poll. If you don't believe it which you should not, it is scare tactics alone with no purpose.

 

Here's the latest for all you Obama Lover Boys - "Poll: Obama's approval hits new low" Half of the registered voters surveyed for the poll think that the president does not deserve a second term in office, while 41 percent say he does. In another Quinnipiac poll released just four weeks ago, 45 percent said the president did not deserve reelection, while 47 percent said he did. The decline in support for a second Obama term comes as his approval rating has dropped 4 percentage points since early March, landing at 42 percent - a record low - in the poll released Wednesday. His disapproval rating has risen from 46 percent to 48 percent. The downward shift may in part be the result of dissatisfaction over U.S involvement in Libya, with 47 percent of those surveyed saying they oppose it. By a margin of 58 percent to 29 percent, registered voters said that Obama has not clearly stated U.S. goals for the mission. The poll as conducted March 22-28 and surveyed 2,069 registered voters. The error margin is plus or minus 2.2 percentage points.

I am wondering where was the poll conducted? One city, random state wide, national. So if his disapproval rating went from 46 to 48 with a margin of error of 2.2 he could really have gone up in approval. So, with no scientific surety someone is saying it hit a new low. Then again, for me, he can't hit a new low. Polls don't allow negative numbers.

 

I was responding to you when you posted that ridiculous poll from over a year ago that everybody knows has not come to be a reality. Apparently you believe 46% of the primary care doctors are going to quit or you would not have posted that poll.

Sax-Dawg, Yes that Poll is an old one. It was conducted by the New England Journal of Medicine. The question posed to the doctors was "Will you quit or does it make you feel like you want to quit." I posted it in response to a silly posting of Bigfoot. No, I do not believe that 46% of the doctors are going to quit. The point is - 46% od the doctors did NOT support Obamacare so severely - they either wanted to quit medicine or were seriously considering it. Any way you slice it - that is not good. Now, a year later, there is still weak support for Obamacare. It is still moving through the Courts. It will end up in the U.S. Supreme Court. Yes, Obama is going full speed to implement it - hoping he can push it far enough along that it will be impossible to stop - like advanced cancer. I will post the latest Poll about Obamacare. But, I believe those favoring repeal - after 1 year - are hovering around 56%. The majority do not support it.

 

"ObamaCare: 46% of Primary Care Physicians Will Quit According to New England Journal of Medicine"

The above is the framing. The scare tactic. (WILL QUIT) That very 1st line is the frame that everybody jumps on. That is what Schaefer intended to frame. That is what makes so much crap going to the people who only remember the first line or the last email they got. Again, a thinking person needs to ask. How many doctors were polled? What is the normal turnover rate on family care doctors? Did they send the poll to all doctors who subscribe. Do they even know if a doctor is the one that filled out the poll. I don't even know if they did a poll. Tried to search the New England Journal of Medicine and came up empty. Probably because its so old. My point being that polls mean next to nothing in a discussion. ============================== 51% of all statistics are made up on the spot. lol then 3 bloggers paste it. Next thing you know you have a factoid!

 

Here's the latest Rasamussen Poll on Obamacare. You cannot discount all Polls. Depending on who conducts the poll & how the question is asked - it can be accurate - or not. And of course - there are "Push Polls" that are propaganda. But a professionally conducted poll is useful as a "snapshot" at that time & used by both sides of the aisle - relentlessly. Here it is - you will notice the 56% I posted was low. Rasmussen has it @ 58%. "Health Care Law" 58% Now Favor Health Care Repeal Monday, March 28, 2011 While voters still favor repeal of the national health care law, concerns that the law will force them to change their existing health insurance are lower than a year ago. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 58% of Likely U.S. Voters at least somewhat favor repeal of the health care law while 36% are opposed. These figures include 46% who Strongly Favor repeal and 27% who Strongly Oppose it. (To see survey question wording, click here.) This is the 54th weekly survey tracking support for repeal of the health care law. Support for repeal has ranged from a low of 50% to a high of 63%. In 53 out of the 54 weeks, support for repeal has topped opposition by double digits. Consistently, Democrats have strongly opposed repeal while Republicans overwhelmingly favor it. Among those not affiliated with either major party, 55% favor repeal and 36% are opposed."

 

Oh, I believe people don't want the current health care law. Its the little one liners that lie or distort that bother me. Frame or distort something and you may as well shout out "This is for all you stupid people to take and run with." So you really don't find anything wrong with Shaefer's framing?

 

The above is the framing. The scare tactic. (WILL QUIT) That very 1st line is the frame that everybody jumps on. That is what Schaefer intended to frame. That is what makes so much crap going to the people who only remember the first line or the last email they got. Again, a thinking person needs to ask. How many doctors were polled? What is the normal turnover rate on family care doctors? Did they send the poll to all doctors who subscribe. Do they even know if a doctor is the one that filled out the poll. I don't even know if they did a poll. Tried to search the New England Journal of Medicine and came up empty. Probably because its so old. My point being that polls mean next to nothing in a discussion. ============================== 51% of all statistics are made up on the spot. lol then 3 bloggers paste it. Next thing you know you have a factoid!

So everyone is lying about everything all the time. So what's the point in having a discussion or, for that matter, even paying attention. Look, there are reputable pollseters that BOTH sides use to get as clear a picture as possible. The two parties may lie to you and me, but they can't aford to lie to themselfs. These are the polling organizations i pay more attention to. Shawn from Mayberry

 

I have been trying to get the answer from Shawn on this. Forgot to put his name at the beginning of my sentence when I answered you on the China car thing and whats the point. I was responding to you when you posted that ridiculous poll from over a year ago that everybody knows has not come to be a reality. Apparently you believe 46% of the primary care doctors are going to quit or you would not have posted that poll. If you don't believe it which you should not, it is scare tactics alone with no purpose.

Honestly???? I had heard this said about a year ago by God knows who. I guess I didn't pay much attention. But much more recently I have listen to Donald Trump say this A NUMBER OF TIMES being interviewed ON A NUMBER OF DIFERENT NETWORKS. Ok, go ahead and burn me for repeating something "I heard". If I read it, would THAT make it more credible to you? When I get my information I consider the source. If Donald trump is repeating this "Lie", then I'm sure he will be called out on it right quick. That he's been saying it for weeks now, and no one is calling him on it says something to me. Is he saying that it's happening to ALL COMPANIES....No. MAybe they don't care about Walmart. Hell, most of what Walmart sells ALREADY COMES FROM CHINA....LOL. So what is to be learned from that? But a technology company on the other hand..............Now "Partnering" with THOSE companies is a cheap and easy way to get caught up with America real fast. By the way, Donald trump isn't the first one to point this out. You somehow seem to doubt that it's happening. Why? Shawn From Mayberry

 

Just because I'm too busy to go dig up the facts to copy and paste, doesn't mean I just post BS or make Sh!t just for the hell of it. Link to full story: http://www.uncoverage.net/2011/01/u-s-companies-selling-out-50-to-partner-with-china/ "The recent General Motors IPO opened the door to foreign ownership of America's car company. Of greater concern is the access China now has to GM technology, which can be adapted to any use. I warned about GM's military contracts and national security being jeopardized by partnering with China. Here is a story today showing how General Electric ( which is closely aligned with Obama and "cap and trade" carbon credits investing) is now going to sell "non-military avionics" to China. Who is to say the technology for such can't be converted to military use??? We are already funding the huge build-up in the China military with our "free trade" agreement, now we are saving them decades of time by "giving" them our technology? And, as predicted, within weeks of the IPO, General Motors has "rolled over" and is giving away the store."

 

The Partnering issue is not my only "Beef" with China. They totally ignore our intellectual property rights. If any western European comapny tried this crap, we would have them in a court in THERE OWN COUNTRY, and probably thrown in jail. Link to page: http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/01/22/CAS_V_CHINA.ART_ART_01-22-10_A1_RIGCIOC.html?sid=101 "We've experienced a widespread and growing problem of theft to our SciFinder product," said Christine McCue, vice president of marketing at Chemical Abstracts. SciFinder is a subscription service that allows customers access to a multitude of information. "There are groups or individuals in China who are stealing SciFinder and then reselling it to others within China," she said. "It's a widespread commercial effort." Google, based in Mountain View, Calif., said a sophisticated attack in December from China was aimed at the company's infrastructure and those of at least 20 other major companies from the Internet, financial services, technology, media and chemical industries. Chemical Abstracts serves 1,700 universities around the world, including 50 in China that buy access to its information. The Chinese universities also have been alerted about the problem, McCue said. "It's interesting that it's coming from China, which is known for not having a lax regulatory regime," said Alex Brown, a partner with Bricker & Eckler who focuses on technology law. "That lends credence to the idea that if China can control users' access to the Internet, how can they not have control over these very sophisticated attacks on secure accounts?"

 

I don't like tarriffs. You can't just roll over though when a GOVERNMENT is totally disrespecting you. Our Companies are being extorted, then just shrugging there shoulders and saying "I guess that just the price of doing business in China". REALLY??? So what do you think Don would do, if I hired him to do a large job, and then had my people steal tools and materials from his job site? My guess is he would have me arrested and taken to jail. So what if the cops never come? Worse yet....what if the cops are IN ON IT WITH ME?! Then Don has a decision to make doesn't he. If he's making enough money on the job, maybe he just ignores it and considers it "The cost of doing business with Shawn from Mayberry". Does that mean that he's "OK" with doing business this way? No. It means that he's "Gotta-do-what-he's-gotta-do" because there is no rule of law to protect him. Trump my not be your pick as President (Probably isn't serious anyway), but he's dead right about this kind of "look the other way" policy towards China is dangerous and costing us hundreds of thousands of jobs HERE. Shawn from Mayberry.

 

I am wondering where was the poll conducted? One city, random state wide, national. So if his disapproval rating went from 46 to 48 with a margin of error of 2.2 he could really have gone up in approval. So, with no scientific surety someone is saying it hit a new low. Then again, for me, he can't hit a new low. Polls don't allow negative numbers.

This is all "Psycho Babble." If you want top have an intelligent & meaningful discussion - fine. If you want to discount reliable pollsters - and yes - the evaluate & keep track of the accuracy of pollsters so they can be objectively evaluated. But - this pretzel logic baloney has no point. I'm far too busy w/ my work. See you @ the poll's in November & we'll see how much the public supports Obama. Just like last November - he was squashed. Ride safe.

 

Shawn? Donald Trump? He is a firm believer in Tariffs. High 25% tariffs on imports. As we are 4 years apart but have the same educational background, I know where he gets those ideas. I also believe we need tariffs in place temporarily until the country restructures. The problem is, we won't restructure. That is evident with our impotent house majority. I am pretty much alone in that thinking. It is the only thing at this time that will get us under control with our dept. I think we owe china something like .8 trillion now. Who do you think pays the tariff? It gets paid ultimately at the cash register. Even at a 25% tariff they still make stuff cheaper than we can here. I have heard you talk about free market systems and how they work so won't bore you with it. 51% OK you heard it somewhere. Donald Trump graduated from Wharton School of Business. That would be a pretty bizarre thing for him to say. Even for him. If you heard him say it, ok. I will leave it alone. China is a most favored nation not our enemy. I say that tongue in cheek. Get one of your right/republican politicians to say anything else. The left loves China, the right loves China, and our business leaders love China.

 

This is all "Psycho Babble." If you want top have an intelligent & meaningful discussion - fine. If you want to discount reliable pollsters - and yes - the evaluate & keep track of the accuracy of pollsters so they can be objectively evaluated. But - this pretzel logic baloney has no point. I'm far too busy w/ my work. See you @ the poll's in November & we'll see how much the public supports Obama. Just like last November - he was squashed.

November 2012 I assume. Depends on unemployment numbers and who runs. Run Palin and I would take that bet. Going to Libya sure ain't helping ole Barry. What a dim light bulb he is. You have to always question polls! If not, they will think for you rather than you form your own thoughts. We shouldn't even get polls! The politicians should. Polls should mean absolutely nothing to a person with conviction and thought. I really don't care what everybody else wants. I vote my way. The only reason I have become aggressive in this thread is that you and Shawn are just like Biggie. Partisan talking points setting out to disagree just because of who posted it regardless of the content.

 

Shawn? Donald Trump? He is a firm believer in Tariffs. High 25% tariffs on imports. As we are 4 years apart but have the same educational background, I know where he gets those ideas. I also believe we need tariffs in place temporarily until the country restructures. The problem is, we won't restructure. That is evident with our impotent house majority. I am pretty much alone in that thinking. It is the only thing at this time that will get us under control with our dept. I think we owe china something like .8 trillion now. Who do you think pays the tariff? It gets paid ultimately at the cash register. Even at a 25% tariff they still make stuff cheaper than we can here. I have heard you talk about free market systems and how they work so won't bore you with it. 51% OK you heard it somewhere. Donald Trump graduated from Wharton School of Business. That would be a pretty bizarre thing for him to say. Even for him. If you heard him say it, ok. I will leave it alone. China is a most favored nation not our enemy. I say that tongue in cheek. Get one of your right/republican politicians to say anything else. The left loves China, the right loves China, and our business leaders love China.

I HATE tarriffs!!!! They are a last resort. What Trump is saying makes total sense to me as a small business guy. I can't just pretend that people who do business fairly with me are the same as those that don't. OPEC is a Cartel. Cartel's by definition are an attempt (if not the incarnation of)at a monopoly. China is manipulating it's currency for the EXPRESS PURPOSE of creating an uneven playing field to trade with us on. They are not "Partnering" with our companies to make a profit with them. That's just a bye product of the moment. They want to steal the technology and then require our companies to reinvest the profits BACK into China. Sure the shareholders win, but what about THE COUNTRY? Is this actually good for OUR COUNTRY? I know I'm sounding like some marxist UAW guy right now. There is a larger question to be answered though. Is allowing China to bend us over like this, really good for the Country? I'm in favor of FREE trade, not just ANY trade, at ANY price. Shawn from Mayberry

 

November 2012 I assume. Depends on unemployment numbers and who runs. Run Palin and I would take that bet. Going to Libya sure ain't helping ole Barry. What a dim light bulb he is. You have to always question polls! If not, they will think for you rather than you form your own thoughts. We shouldn't even get polls! The politicians should. Polls should mean absolutely nothing to a person with conviction and thought. I really don't care what everybody else wants. I vote my way. The only reason I have become aggressive in this thread is that you and Shawn are just like Biggie. Partisan talking points setting out to disagree just because of who posted it regardless of the content.

There is a rumor floating around out here, that our Camp Lejune Marines have "Been told" to prepare to deploy. The rumor is they are heading by ship off the Coast of Libya. Again........RUMOR ONLY! By the way. Polls DO have an effect on elections. No one likes to lose. Those that don't have strong convictions are easily swayed by "popular Opinion". It's how we ended up with This President to begin with. Shawn from Mayberry.

 

Satxron wrote; Biggie, you are are real pain. You throw up this stuff, watch Shawn bite at it then sit back and laugh at him. I just like to present opposing views in a non-hysterical way to get my fellow Americans to think instead of being told what to think. When I first started posting in the OT area, there was nothing but a bunch of people agreeing with each other. What fun is that?