[iabob]

Fuel Moro, Jim’s, Zippers, S&S. All better options.

 

[iabob]

Then what ?

Better than the Harley 131 package. Pretty much garaunteed you get more power for less money going aftermarket. If memory serves the bike in the video came in about 125 hp, 135 tq. Certainly not bad numbers, they're about 10 each higher than mine. Of course mine is also 200 lbs lighter and only 100". I've seen aftermarket Harley M8 big bore kits from the companies I mentioned, 124", 127", 131"...numbers more like 140-150. If I've learned one thing about motorcycles these last dozen years or so, doesn't matter if it's Victory, Indian, or Harley. Skip the factory "performance" upgrades and go aftermarket.

 

[iabob]

@iabob cant argue that when I was into power never went factory

Back in the day I could've gone to the dealer for a stage 1 set up, plus a stage 3 kit installed on my 2007 Kingpin. This would have given me a new intake, cams, pipes, and reflash. Would have cost over 3k total and moved me from about 78 hp stock to mid-high 90's. Maybe 99-95 tq to 105-110. For close to the same money after market got me 116 hp and 124 tq

 

[iabob]

At the crank. These numbers are rear wheel. Atleast that's what they are showing on the Dyno graphs.
Still the Challenger is a great platform to build on. Like a Freedom 106

Just googled it, 103 hp and 113 tq at the wheel. Comes up short against a cammed Vic.

 

[iabob]

Stock out of the box not bad

I have no doubt it's a nice motor. We've known Swiss Auto can build a good motor even before the Scout and Octane came out. But that does date back to 2014. It's been six years, where are the cam choices? Whose making a big bore kit? Will Challenger buyer have to wait seven years for substantial upgrades while Harley guy has more choices than fingers already?

 

[iabob]

It's up to Lloyd at this point. Who else is going to do the job? HD has has been around so long doing the same thing for so long you have to ask ...... are they concerned about their after market following ? Yes ..... After all these people make a living because of HD. Because of HD loyalty there is plenty of bikes and so plenty business.
It's a win win to be an HD after market performance shop even today. Hell I showed my buddy with a 107 the video and he called zippers and set up a sleeper kit for him self. Instead of taking the bike to Maryland ...... zippers has a recommended shop here in our area that he works close with. This makes for a good network like Lloydz used to have.

With a new product like the Challenger I would be hesitant to build and R&D parts until I've seen sales. Lots and lots of sales. The benefit to Lloydz being a dealer/ partner is he sells these bikes and then performs the upgrades. Him being the guy that develops this stuff for Indians ? Winner for him but they have to sell bikes.

It's something that makes me scratch my head. I'm sure there's more too it than I know, but still I'm puzzled. I think Lloyd's VM-1 cams showed up around 4-5 years after the Freedom motor was introduced, about 8-9 years after the pre- Freedom which shared much of the architecture. Tourque Tubes didn't show up until a couple years later still. Lloyd is a great guy and I love what he's done, without him Victory never would have got as far as it did, Polaris probably quit motorcycles before buying Indian. So this isn't a knock on him and what he's accomplished, but he's no S&S, he doesn't have the deep pockets and R&D department to get this stuff out in year 1 and 2 like Harley's aftermarket does.

So here's the part I don't get. We know Swiss Auto is the company that developed these motors. We know Swiss Auto has the engineering bench to build great racing motors. We know that the architecture behind the Scout-Octane-FTR is what they developed P156 with, and that was on pace to beat some of the fastest bikes in production before it crashed at Pikes Peak. So we know they know how to get a LOT more than 100 hp out of that motor. Lord knows what THEY can get out of an 1800 cc version, which is the Challenger's 108.

So if I'm Polaris....let's set aside for this discussion that I don't get side tracked with a new brand because for this discussion one brand or two brands same dif. Anyway, Polaris can't sell the parts as performance upgrades due to OEM emissions regs. But Swiss Auto isn't the OEM. Nothing stops them from also selling parts to Lloyd! So maybe a little confidentiality and licensing agreement and Swiss Auto could sell cams, intakes, big bore, high compression pistons, programmable ecu etc.etc.etc. Directly to Lloyd to be sold under his brand as aftermarket performance. How many more bikes do you suppose Polaris sells when those that are into hot rodding know the parts to turn these bikes into serious power machines are available? I'm quite certain the availability of these parts for the Freedom engine helped sell Vic's.