Interesting article on ethanol in the gas.
http://www.cycleworld.com/real-world-look-at-alcohol-in-your-tank
http://www.cycleworld.com/real-world-look-at-alcohol-in-your-tank
Effects of ethanol
recumbentbob
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About 5 yrs ago read article in a boating magazine. Seems a graduate student tested various stations and areas and found ethanol can vary from 5% to 16% even though marked 10%. Just can't find it on web but here's a link to.."recalling gasoline for 30% ethanol levels"..Oh yea recalling gasoline.. kinda like 're-calling' an x wife on the phone, just so easy and fun too~!
Gasoline recalled for unacceptably high levels of ethanol, Oklahoma and Cleveland counties affected
Gasoline recalled for unacceptably high levels of ethanol, Oklahoma and Cleveland counties affected
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Man what a topic~! Found this from someone who works on pumps at gas stations...just sayin'...link appears to be related to anti-corrosion & other interests LINK at bottom.
My words are italics. This is about "stress corrosion cracking" of steel gas tanks purported to be caused by ethanol. ITRC is Interstate Technology Reg. Council.
No personal attack, criticism or drama please. I just been hearing about this specific issue. I'm no authority much less engineer. It concerns me though.
A half-million storage tanks installed below 156,000 gas stations in the United States could be harboring a "hidden hazard" in need of a pricey fix, federal scientists are warning. A new study by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) "has demonstrated severe corrosion-rapidly eating through 1 millimeter of wall thickness per year-on steel alloy samples exposed to ethanol and acetic acid vapors."
In recent years, field inspectors in nine states have reported many rapidly corroding gas storage tank components such as sump pumps, NIST announced. The problems have been generally found in tanks that hold gasoline-ethanol blends.
![Image]()
.
2 E85 pumps see site...by the Interstate Technology & Regulatory Council showed corrosion in two E85 STP sumps "likely caused by degradation products of ethanol vapors."
Study: Vapors and Immersion
NIST followed up those field reports with a 30-day laboratory study of sump pump components, which are located above the tanks and directly below the access covers at gas stations.
The researchers developed new test methods and equipment to mimic the immersion, vapor and bacteria exposures of copper and steel alloy sump pumps.
The study "confirmed damage similar to that seen on sump pumps by field inspectors," NIST reported.
Steel exposed to vapors fared the worst, showing flaking iron oxide. Copper in both the liquid and vapor environments corroded more slowly.
![Image]()
NIST
Optical micrographs show severe corrosion on steel alloy samples exposed to ethanol and acetic acid vapors-typical conditions for USTs-after 355 hours, 643 hours, and 932 hours.
Ethanol Challenges:
Ethanol's corrosion implications are well documented.
(Unknown posters comments, looks like some may work in the field, not sure and front lines of "stress corrosion cracking" of steel lined tanks we pump out of)
Comment from Tony Rangus, (8/7/2014, 10:46 AM)
Makes one wonder what all those additional corrosion products are doing to the internal combustion engine that burns it?
Comment from Tom Schwerdt, (8/7/2014, 8:36 AM)
Not surprising. As the article comments, ethanol is known to cause these issues - particularly in equipment designed for straight hydrocarbons.
Comment from M. Halliwell, (8/7/2014, 2:23 PM)
Tony, probably part of the reason so much of a modern engine is aluminum. :/ Tom, I found it interesting too....after years and years of just dealing with the natural processes getting at tanks and piping from the outside, the fuel makers change the mix and make it that much easier to kill a tank from the inside. It looks like I have job security for the rest of my career cleaning up these messes.
Comment from Frank Tomasi, (8/7/2014, 5:00 PM)
Two years ago the state of Florida banned the metal tanks causing all gas stations in the state to go to thick walled fiberglass tanks. The savings of 10% of fossil fuel is a bad trade off.
Comment from M. Halliwell, (8/12/2014, 10:56 AM)
Tom, no criticism taken.
I've worked with a lot of "mom and pop" service stations in my career and it's heart-breaking to see the financial and emotional burden a leaking tank can be...now we're getting a new mix of fuels that will potentially kill tanks faster and contribute to even more environmental messes and clean ups and more little small service stations being faced with huge remediations. It is job security for me, just not the way I'd rather have it...it comes with a high price.
Link
http://www.paintsquare.com/news/?fuseaction=view&id=11804
http://www.itrcweb.org/Guidance/GetDocument?documentID=13
My words are italics. This is about "stress corrosion cracking" of steel gas tanks purported to be caused by ethanol. ITRC is Interstate Technology Reg. Council.
No personal attack, criticism or drama please. I just been hearing about this specific issue. I'm no authority much less engineer. It concerns me though.
A half-million storage tanks installed below 156,000 gas stations in the United States could be harboring a "hidden hazard" in need of a pricey fix, federal scientists are warning. A new study by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) "has demonstrated severe corrosion-rapidly eating through 1 millimeter of wall thickness per year-on steel alloy samples exposed to ethanol and acetic acid vapors."
In recent years, field inspectors in nine states have reported many rapidly corroding gas storage tank components such as sump pumps, NIST announced. The problems have been generally found in tanks that hold gasoline-ethanol blends.
2 E85 pumps see site...by the Interstate Technology & Regulatory Council showed corrosion in two E85 STP sumps "likely caused by degradation products of ethanol vapors."
Study: Vapors and Immersion
NIST followed up those field reports with a 30-day laboratory study of sump pump components, which are located above the tanks and directly below the access covers at gas stations.
The researchers developed new test methods and equipment to mimic the immersion, vapor and bacteria exposures of copper and steel alloy sump pumps.
The study "confirmed damage similar to that seen on sump pumps by field inspectors," NIST reported.
Steel exposed to vapors fared the worst, showing flaking iron oxide. Copper in both the liquid and vapor environments corroded more slowly.
NIST
Optical micrographs show severe corrosion on steel alloy samples exposed to ethanol and acetic acid vapors-typical conditions for USTs-after 355 hours, 643 hours, and 932 hours.
Ethanol Challenges:
Ethanol's corrosion implications are well documented.
(Unknown posters comments, looks like some may work in the field, not sure and front lines of "stress corrosion cracking" of steel lined tanks we pump out of)
Comment from Tony Rangus, (8/7/2014, 10:46 AM)
Makes one wonder what all those additional corrosion products are doing to the internal combustion engine that burns it?
Comment from Tom Schwerdt, (8/7/2014, 8:36 AM)
Not surprising. As the article comments, ethanol is known to cause these issues - particularly in equipment designed for straight hydrocarbons.
Comment from M. Halliwell, (8/7/2014, 2:23 PM)
Tony, probably part of the reason so much of a modern engine is aluminum. :/ Tom, I found it interesting too....after years and years of just dealing with the natural processes getting at tanks and piping from the outside, the fuel makers change the mix and make it that much easier to kill a tank from the inside. It looks like I have job security for the rest of my career cleaning up these messes.
Comment from Frank Tomasi, (8/7/2014, 5:00 PM)
Two years ago the state of Florida banned the metal tanks causing all gas stations in the state to go to thick walled fiberglass tanks. The savings of 10% of fossil fuel is a bad trade off.
Comment from M. Halliwell, (8/12/2014, 10:56 AM)
Tom, no criticism taken.
I've worked with a lot of "mom and pop" service stations in my career and it's heart-breaking to see the financial and emotional burden a leaking tank can be...now we're getting a new mix of fuels that will potentially kill tanks faster and contribute to even more environmental messes and clean ups and more little small service stations being faced with huge remediations. It is job security for me, just not the way I'd rather have it...it comes with a high price. Link
http://www.paintsquare.com/news/?fuseaction=view&id=11804
http://www.itrcweb.org/Guidance/GetDocument?documentID=13
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