[Oldman47]

You are wrong here. I have been sued twice as a officer for absolute BS. I have also sat in front of a grand jury twice on baseless claims. On top of that I had a female who was arrested claimed I sexually assaulted her and had to go through all the steps as a regular civilian would. I knew the truth in all of these incidents and knew that I had done nothing wrong.

When the truth came out I was cleared every time, on every thing. Don't be so quick to judge. I may have more experience on both sides than you think.

I can sympathize with your experience on baseless accusations and might even have a bit of understanding about the situation where that put you.
I have no misconceptions on baseless searches. The 4th does not say that I can never be searched but it does give minimal guidance on when a search is legal and court interpretations have further refined when a search is or is not legal. I will never, read that again, never submit to a voluntary search because it gives away any rights I might have under the 4th amendment. Even if a search might otherwise be illegal, if I give in voluntarily I have given up any right to challenge that search and its results after the fact. Sorry, but I will just never go there. If you feel you have a right to search me without my agreement and without a warrant, go ahead and we will fight it out in the courts. I know that I cannot prevent the search but will never yield to your simple suspicion and give away my right to stop an illegal search. If you ignore my rejection of your desire to search, again that is a matter for the courts and if that causes you to receive disciplinary action I have no pity on you. You are the one who chose to violate my rights.

 

[Oldman47]

Illegal searches are just that. It really does not matter the circumstances or the organization that conducts an illegal search. There is no "well its OK if" in the 4th amendment. Anything found in the course of an illegal search is simply never going to be evidence of anything, so there is no point to it. If there is a legitimate reason for a search, a warrant can be obtained, so there is no excuse for conducting an illegal search.
As far as my attitudes, they are formed by my observations as an adult. I can be as friendly as can be with a "peace officer" if they are not trying to f**k with me but I am all done being a victim. Warrant-less searches and discovery type questioning outside of an actual arrest will get you nowhere with me. If I am walking down the street and you decide to stop me you had darned well better have it together or you will be facing disciplinary charges by your own department. Cops, none of them, are my friends. That does not mean I cannot treat them in a civil manner if they are well behaved but I have zero tolerance for BS.

 

[Oldman47]

Did he stop you?

Did the "trigger happy cop" shoot the two of you?

Did you check into him trespassing on your land to find out you were wrong in calling it such?

Did you find out during that fact finding mission that a GW is the ONLY peace officer in Texas that can enter your home without a warrant when looking for evidence?

Let's start out with the obvious as answers.
We went back to shooting after he left. We are both alive today but who knows if we would be if I had not responded with an abundance of caution. I am not going to be wrong on trespassing from any point of view when I call it what it is. I might not be able to have him arrested for it, partly because cops definitely hang together, but that does not change what was happening.
I do not live in Texas and as far as I know the forth amendment has not been suspended here, in Texas or any other place in the US. Nobody gets to search me or my immediately controlled location without a warrant ever unless they are able to show a crime actually in progress.

Where are you working for an over eager LLEA that I need to avoid just so that I don't need to hire an attorney to take you to task for conducting an unconstitutional search? I would find that a bit inconvenient. I have better things to do with my time, like riding. Do not try to stop me and ask to search my vehicle or ask me what I have been doing. I will definitely stand on my rights and you will have more legal fun than you can begin to imagine if you push things. I am not a teenager you can bully with cop attitudes. I never have to identify myself to you but realize I must provide a driver's license to prove I have the privilege of driving. Unless you can cite exactly what you suspect me of doing and can show a warrant, you will not search me or my personally controlled property and finally, I will never even admit to driving down the street even if you have watched me do so. I still have 5th amendment rights and bullying me will be a dead end for you.

 

[Oldman47]

It seems that you are trying very hard to be reasonable within your experiences, just as I am within my experiences. I think the difference is that you have so far not been accused of doing something wrong based on totally baseless assumptions.

When I ran from my home to try to get help for my dying brother who was the victim of a gunshot wound to the heart when I was the ripe old age of 15 I was accused of murder. It took me at least 20 seconds to get control of myself and go back into the house to dial the local emergency number and ask for an ambulance because I was panicking. Nobody but the cops showed up to tend to my dying brother, nobody. That is because only a cop was allowed to call for an ambulance for a gun shot at that time under SOPs. 911 did not exist back then so I had to actually look up an emergency service number but at least we had a sticker on the phone with the number on it.

Does that give you any perspective on why I think you are all out to get me and people like me? The accusation did not last very long after the cops interviewed my younger brother, the shooter, who admitted he had done it or my baby sister, but the local paper did have me down as the killer and never published a retraction. The neighbor that reported me as the shooter never had a clue what went on inside the house but a cop driving by might have easily reached the same conclusion that they did. Would they have shot me for running around in a panic? Who knows.
As far as cops identifying that a person is called in or who it was, it makes no difference to me. As far as I am concerned nobody has a right to search me outside of 4th amendment guidance and I will never talk to a cop who is present on official business. I can incriminate myself easily long before a cop reads me my rights if I am not silent. Ever hear of this? "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law." I will stand on those rights every darned time and will refuse to answer even the most innocent sounding of questions.

Cop: Why are you running around in the street?
Me: I need an ambulance because my brother has a wound in his chest.

OK, what do you think? Am I a suspect after that short exchange?

 

[Oldman47]

Wow! Maybe I was wrong. A person with nothing to hide shouldn't mind a simple chat with an officer. Would you not want them making sure people walking down your street belong there if they are not recognized. I guess you would rather the police leave everyone alone and let the burglars, rapist, and robbers walk freely around our communities easily traveling from victim to victim.

I have no problem with a chat with an officer and have had many such, under purely social circumstances. I do have a problem being approached as if I am a criminal for them to have a "casual conversation" that is no such a thing. When an on-duty cop that I don't know approaches me and tries to act like he is my friend it sets off all kinds of alarms in my head. Yes, I will report suspicious people for the cops to investigate if I think there is reason to do so but that is not the same as them taking it upon themselves to harass anyone out walking around in my neighborhood. I cannot begin to identify everyone in my neighborhood but no way does that make their actions worthy of a follow up. Your statement about burglars, rapists and robbers tells me where your mind set is, and no way do I support that point of view. I own some property out in the sticks and have stopped people who were at least 500 feet down my driveway to challenge why they were there. Instead of being belligerent or calling the cops I actually helped them find the ride they were looking for when they ventured down my un-posted driveway. I am just fine with people who are lost or have strayed from the "norm". Darned few of them are rapists, burglars or robbers and that means that I reject your characterization of them as such.

As far as a search, any search, I am done talking with you about it. You have your mind made up, like many here. You are not interested in a conversation and instead respond as if I said nothing at all. You are set in your ways and without your views you would have nothing to bit8h about so you have to hold them tightly to give you an axe to grind. Otherwise you would have to acknowledge the truth and your argument would have a disliked conclusion. I get it. I guess there are not enough cats in your yard to yell at during the winter up there.

Agreed. We will never come together with me accepting an illegal search.

Done being the victim? Please share the time police made you the victim. I am honestly interested. You make me think of the sovereign nation folks. Is that you? They are a dangerous breed.

If I need to be a sovereign nations person to defend my rights against abuse, I guess I am that person. I am never dangerous to those who merely want to go about their business but I never give up my rights just to fit in either. If that makes me dangerous in your eyes, I truly feel sorry for you. Let me give a quote, if I can get it right.
Attributed to Ben Franklin:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. "

 

[Oldman47]

Let's think about how the LLEA affect my actions. Quite some time ago I was out on my own acreage with my then 14 years old daughter and we were shooting skeet as practice the week before the hunting season opened. Each of us had our own pump shotgun and we were shooting away from the road in a direction where the nearest road was about a mile away. We had been there about 20 minutes and were taking turns shooting. So much for what was really going on.
Now for the attitude that results with the shoot first approach we see all too often in a cop. A local game warden pulled up in the driveway perhaps 200 feet away, parked his car and stepped out behind his car door as a shield. My first thought was make sure I don't pose a threat so open the action on my shotgun and point it at the ground. That thought lasted maybe a full second before I told my daughter to lay her open shotgun on the ground and step away from it while I did the same thing. In that second the thought went through my head that we might be facing yet another trigger happy cop and he might not notice that the guns were no immediate threat, the same way that folks never see a bike right before the accident. The way the game warden approached us to ask what we were doing told me that choosing to step away from the shotguns had been an excellent idea. He still acted as if he thought me and a 14 year old girl were a potential major threat to him while he was trespassing on my property. He had received a call that someone was out hunting out of season and was there to "investigate" that report. None of his actions spoke "investigate" to me. He was there to stop us.

 

[Oldman47]

I see a lot of discussion around whether the SOP is correct but I have a simple question. Is that bass turd cop on suspension pending a full investigation or do I need to worry about being the next person he stops/shoots?