Why was it necessary to replace the clutch, and why did you go with the Barnett?

The only thing I have heard about the Barnett is that it 'creeps' or 'drags', as in doesn't fully disengage and the bike feels like it wants to roll forward when idling with the clutch pulled in.

 

Why was it necessary to replace the clutch, and why did you go with the Barnett?

The only thing I have heard about the Barnett is that it 'creeps' or 'drags', as in doesn't fully disengage and the bike feels like it wants to roll forward when idling with the clutch pulled in.

You need to adjust clutch cable if this is your experience.

 

Thanks for asking, I was about to change tyres so thought I would do a couple of burn outs, second burnt out the clutch. I went with what Lloydz recommend because the Vic Clutch was more than double the price. I've sent Lloydz an email to get their feedback. The clutch does engage very early and it wants to go.

 

Have had Great Results with Barnett Clutches on previous Harleys owned .. Can't speak for them on a Victory other than a Riding Buddy Just Replaced his on his 2009 Vision about a month ago and it's doing fine ..

 

I have read threads about Victory factory clutches feeling like they want to creap forward as well.

 

What did the mechanic who installed it say about your issue ?

 

I think the barrnet clutch topic is like tires and oil on the site. I have had probles when getting my big bore kit I had heavy spring and plate put in took it back outroad last year no problems going to talk to Rylan at Vic shop this year on what to do so I hopfuly dont have a problem.

 

The mechanic on the phone didn't seemed concerned and said they are like that. I'm going to test it in first gear to see how long it takes for the shudder to happen, I'll go back to the mechanic and get him to ride it while I'm there and have a real conversation about it. It doesn't feel or sound good to me.

 

Possibly a clutch plate out of alignment??

 

Had the same problem on my Stratoliner with the Barrnet clutch plates.

 

I have the Barnett clutch, stock plates on my Warrior with NOS. No issue, works great.

I am using the "Strongest Springs" the red ones.

They need to be installed evenly, that maybe your problem.

 

I got the Barnett clutch and heavy duty clutch plate sent over from Lloydz and installed by my mechanic. It would be good to hear anyones feedback on an issue I have had. The engine is stock so no extraordinary power and the clutch plate is rated by Lloydz to 160+ HP, using Vic oil. I just did the Australian Victory Rally, approx 3,000km and about 3,500km since the clutch was installed. The problem is intermittent, I have noticed a shuddering coming from the clutch while changing down into first gear at low revs, this can be felt through the clutch lever and sometimes through the whole bike as well as hearing the shudder. Sometimes it sounds loud and feels strong and thought it was going to **** itself. Is there anyone that has had this problem or can suggest a possible cause?

I had a similar problem with my Barnett clutch. I had to replace the clutch on my 2013 Cross Country at about 7000 miles because it just kept slipping (Vic Oil only at the time). Because of time restrictions (going on a vacation ride with a friend) I decided to replace the fibres, spring and plate all at once. Barnett was able to get me the hardware overnight to Canada. We tipped the bike over and were able to replace everything in about an hour and we were off...

About 2500 miles later the bike shuddered in the friction zone at low speeds. Then its started to squeal on take off. I called Barnett and they said that I may have glazed the pads doing slow cone work. They recommended using some 800 grit sandpaper to remove the glazing. I went and bought another primary gasket and tipped the bike over again to start this process. When I removed the pads and steels I kept them all in order and placed them on my bench for inspection. None of them appeared glazed. There were no shiny spots at all. But something must be causing the shudder and squeal so I did the light sanding any way.

When I was replacing the springs i noticed that the first spring was backwards. It is supposed to be dished up on the edges and instead was dished downward. Once this was replaced and everything was put back together and replaced the oil (Amsoil 20/50 this time). Works perfectly now! The friction zone on the clutch lever went from an 1/8 of an inch to a much more normal 3/4 inch. I've put on about 1000 miles since and it is working perfectly, the Barnett spring keeps it from slipping, the Amsoil makes shifting smooth as silk, and the friction zone works perfectly for cone work.

I don't know if your issues are from a turned around spring, but it's worth a look.

Hope that helps.

 

I had a similar problem with my Barnett clutch. I had to replace the clutch on my 2013 Cross Country at about 7000 miles because it just kept slipping (Vic Oil only at the time). Because of time restrictions (going on a vacation ride with a friend) I decided to replace the fibres, spring and plate all at once. Barnett was able to get me the hardware overnight to Canada. We tipped the bike over and were able to replace everything in about an hour and we were off...

About 2500 miles later the bike shuddered in the friction zone at low speeds. Then its started to squeal on take off. I called Barnett and they said that I may have glazed the pads doing slow cone work. They recommended using some 800 grit sandpaper to remove the glazing. I went an bought another primary gasket and tipped the bike over again to start this process. When I removed the pads and steels I kept them all in order and placed them on my bench for inspection. None of them appeared glazed. There were no shiny spots at all. But something must be causing the shudder and squeal so I did the light sanding any way.

When I was replacing the springs i noticed that the first spring was backwards. It is supposed to be dished up on the edges and instead was convicted downward. Once this was replaced and everything was put back together and replaced the oil (Amsoil 20/50 this time). Works perfectly now! The friction zone on the clutch lever went from an 1/8 of an inch to a much more normal 3/4 inch. I've put on about 1000 miles since and it is working perfectly, the Barnett spring keeps it from slipping, the Amsoil makes shifting smooth as silk, and the friction zone works perfectly for cone work.

I don't know if your issues are from a turned around spring, but it's worth a look.

Hope that helps.

Now you done gone and done it reported another Victory that used Victory 20w-40 semi-synthetic oil and the clutch slipped. Then you went and compounded your problem by switching over to synthetic oil so you can expect your Victory to explode at any moment when you ride it.

Okay the sarcasm meter is turned off.

I just shake my head at all the denial of Clutch slipping issues on Victory's that used the Victory semi-synthetic oil. I bet if one could get the data you would find that just as many people have suffered clutch slippage with Victory's semi-synthetic oil as have those who used synthetic oil.

My bike has just over 34,200 miles on it and it has run 20w-50 synthetic oil since the first oil change done at 479 miles at its 500 mile service. In all those miles I have never had the clutch slip. I think you will be happy with your choice of synthetic oil. There is no reason to be sacred of synthetic oil in a Victory motorcycle, to many have switched to synthetic oil and have had no problem at all just like many have no problems with the Victory semi-synthetic.

Then you have the few who have suffered clutch slippage with synthetic, however as you can see people who used the Victory semi-synthetic have also suffered the dreaded clutch slippage.

 

I'd guess some portion of it is incorrectly installed - the unfortunate thing is that there are a couple of things you can do that aren't by the book but will work (for the most part) just fine. The friction plates and steels can be flipped incorrectly, and I swear to God I wouldn't believe me either if I were you, that can make it drag. The judder spring could be upside down or on the wrong side of its seat. The lever that interfaces with the "rack" that operates the clutch could be in the wrong groove to make correct cable adjustment not quite possible. There's also a special friction plate for the end nearest the pressure plate, it would fit anywhere if you didn't know it was supposed to be in that spot.

I put my Barnett clutch in myself -- I know what I'm doing, done tons of clutches. It drug. Not terribly, but it was noticeable enough that I hoped it would break in and go away. For another reason not important in this thread I had it back apart around 100 miles later and my uncle who is a very experienced automatic transmission specialist - many use very similar clutch packs - was over having beers and shooting the **** while I worked. I told him it had been dragging, and he told me to make sure I had the rolled edges of the friction and steels touching each other (which also means the cut edges of the frictions and steels touching each other) or it could drag. So I looked in the Vision Service Manual, and right there on page 9.19 there's an illustration/description of exactly that. He told me that a lot of his younger techs don't believe that minute detail is important and sometimes end up with drag, sometimes bad enough to trigger error codes in newer cars. So I did it by the book (and his advice) and amazingly enough, not a hint of drag. Same clutch, same oil, hardly any miles between the two situations. Shudder/clacking/noises downshifting can be a symptom of that clutch drag - dragging enough to keep parts spinning more than it would if it weren't dragging them a bit.

I know that sounds hokey as hell, but it's right in your FSM and I trust my uncle's level of experience above all - he's the kind of guy that gets consulted and contracted, revered like some of the big names here but in a much larger community. He volunteered the info independently of the manual and they both agreed. I've replaced dozens of clutches over the years and I've never cared about the orientation of the plates (I did notice the different edges, but assumed it was unimportant) and I've had some drag and some not. Uncle has replaced thousands and says it does matter to some degree.

 

I'd guess some portion of it is incorrectly installed - the unfortunate thing is that there are a couple of things you can do that aren't by the book but will work (for the most part) just fine. The friction plates and steels can be flipped incorrectly, and I swear to God I wouldn't believe me either if I were you, that can make it drag. The judder spring could be upside down or on the wrong side of its seat. The lever that interfaces with the "rack" that operates the clutch could be in the wrong groove to make correct cable adjustment not quite possible. There's also a special friction plate for the end nearest the pressure plate, it would fit anywhere if you didn't know it was supposed to be in that spot.

I put my Barnett clutch in myself -- I know what I'm doing, done tons of clutches. It drug. Not terribly, but it was noticeable enough that I hoped it would break in and go away. For another reason not important in this thread I had it back apart around 100 miles later and my uncle who is a very experienced automatic transmission specialist - many use very similar clutch packs - was over having beers and shooting the **** while I worked. I told him it had been dragging, and he told me to make sure I had the rolled edges of the friction and steels touching each other (which also means the cut edges of the frictions and steels touching each other) or it could drag. So I looked in the Vision Service Manual, and right there on page 9.19 there's an illustration/description of exactly that. He told me that a lot of his younger techs don't believe that minute detail is important and sometimes end up with drag, sometimes bad enough to trigger error codes in newer cars. So I did it by the book (and his advice) and amazingly enough, not a hint of drag. Same clutch, same oil, hardly any miles between the two situations. Shudder/clacking/noises downshifting can be a symptom of that clutch drag - dragging enough to keep parts spinning more than it would if it weren't dragging them a bit.

I know that sounds hokey as hell, but it's right in your FSM and I trust my uncle's level of experience above all - he's the kind of guy that gets consulted and contracted, revered like some of the big names here but in a much larger community. He volunteered the info independently of the manual and they both agreed. I've replaced dozens of clutches over the years and I've never cared about the orientation of the plates (I did notice the different edges, but assumed it was unimportant) and I've had some drag and some not. Uncle has replaced thousands and says it does matter to some degree.

AS another poster mentioned there are rings, spacers, and Judder plates that have to be put in in the correct orientation. ALSO, if you are like myself, you may have left an old spacer at the back of the basket. It took Lloyd to disassemble the thing and find it. He swears it is common because it can vacuum itself in there because of the oil and the 2 machined surfaces.

Use an OEM parts guide to re-assemble and check the back of the basket very carefully for an extra spacer/judder? ring

Also, a dealer once had my top keepers flipped and that caused an issue.

The Barnette Spring Plate is a 50/50 proposition in a Vic Clutch, and I am still waiting to hear from anyone who has a Barnette Scorpion type, multi spring clucth vs the Spring Plate.

Good luck keith

UGH!!! You guys are giving me cause for pause. As several folks here already know, I'm in the process of replacing my stock clutch pieces/parts with Barnett plates, fibers, support plate and spring...all complimented by a Lloyds primary support cover.

I just got the clutch pack put back together last night (thanks again to Keith for the custom spring compression tool) and had planned on installing everything today...until I read this.

Yes, the service manual is specific about the plates being installed with the machined edges up. However, the instructions that came with the new Barnett plates and fibers does not mention anything about machined edges and looking at them myself, I don't notice a difference between one side of the plate and the other side...so I just put them in there and was ready to rock and roll. Now, maybe not so much.

I guess I'll call Barnett today and see what they say about the plates. :heavysigh:

 

Thanks, BrandonM7. That's some great insight. Thank your uncle too. If I ever have to do this again, I'll be sure and watch for the edges.

 

Thank you for the feedback, I have received another spring from Llyodz to try which is great service from them, they are one of the better suppliers.
The bike does try and creep forward, its tough reversing even with the clutch in, sometimes I have to put it in neutral to reverse the bike if im on gravel. The lever engages straight away, no play anymore. I'll try the new spring and talk with the mechanic regarding other possibilities.

 

Thank you for the feedback, I have received another spring from Llyodz to try which is great service from them, they are one of the better suppliers.
The bike does try and creep forward, its tough reversing even with the clutch in, sometimes I have to put it in neutral to reverse the bike if im on gravel. The lever engages straight away, no play anymore. I'll try the new spring and talk with the mechanic regarding other possibilities.

AS another poster mentioned there are rings, spacers, and Judder plates that have to be put in in the correct orientation. ALSO, if you are like myself, you may have left an old spacer at the back of the basket. It took Lloyd to disassemble the thing and find it. He swears it is common because it can vacuum itself in there because of the oil and the 2 machined surfaces.

Use an OEM parts guide to re-assemble and check the back of the basket very carefully for an extra spacer/judder? ring

Also, a dealer once had my top keepers flipped and that caused an issue.

The Barnette Spring Plate is a 50/50 proposition in a Vic Clutch, and I am still waiting to hear from anyone who has a Barnette Scorpion type, multi spring clucth vs the Spring Plate.

Good luck keith

 

Remember:
1) The late model (2011 and newer) clutch pull will not survive a heavy clutch spring. You will need to replace it with a pre-2010 "clutch lifter assembly".

2) if you use a Lloydz Primary support plate (cover) the old style pull will hit the cover. You must hold the clutch lever in with a zip tie and cut the tip off the shaft that sticks out of the primary. Make sure you tape off everything and put a bead of grease around the hole so no shavings get in there when you take a cut-off wheel to it.... or you could do it prior to install.

Pictured is the NEW clutch lifter assembly. The older style doesn't have a sealed bearing (It's in oil anyway).

3) Take a magnet and make damned certain you get all the plates and metal rings out of the clutch basket! That oddball fiber plate and the bottom little metal ring will stay in there if you don't. They won't just fall out.

 

HalfCrazy,

I have a couple of questions:
1. How heavy of a spring would it take to break the spindle? I really don't want to buy another gasket and start again...
2. Instead of cutting the spindle, might it be easier to drill the support plate to accept the spindle as the clutch is engaged and disengaged?

 

Thanks for the heads up on that. I'll continue with the weaker spindle for now. If you come up with an affordable unbreakable option, let me know.

 

Machinist is working on it....

 

When you get your first batch of them please put me on the list.

 

I had to have the Variable and the Barnett spring put in my Vision to keep it from slipping. Even after new plates and the Variable plate it still slipped. I have herd stories of issues with the barnett spring but mine is smooth as butter.

 

I got the Barnett clutch and heavy duty clutch plate sent over from Lloydz and installed by my mechanic. It would be good to hear anyones feedback on an issue I have had. The engine is stock so no extraordinary power and the clutch plate is rated by Lloydz to 160+ HP, using Vic oil. I just did the Australian Victory Rally, approx 3,000km and about 3,500km since the clutch was installed. The problem is intermittent, I have noticed a shuddering coming from the clutch while changing down into first gear at low revs, this can be felt through the clutch lever and sometimes through the whole bike as well as hearing the shudder. Sometimes it sounds loud and feels strong and thought it was going to **** itself. Is there anyone that has had this problem or can suggest a possible cause?

Local shop sabotaged my bike long story short had to replace the OEM clutch and pressure plate. Barnett steels and frictions were already in hand and a HD pressure plate and spring from Lloydz was ordered.

I am happy with the install, I have put ~4,000 miles on since the install and the only issue I have is a Belt like squeak every once and a while if I take off quick from a standing start. The Squeak is coming from the clutch. I have no shuddering or creeping issues.

Thought the shudder could be coming from the torque compensator.

 

NC,
No worries on the Barnett plates. No wrong way to install. Be careful with the Judder spring, There is a wrong way to install that one!

When you install the cover, use 4 or 5 long guides, hit up Lowes and buy some metric screws 4 inch or so long. Cut the heads off and bevel the top some . This will act as a guide when installing the cover.

Happy Wrenching

 

PS, Soak the fiber plates in the oil before installing!

 

He was ahead of us on that one. HC has been lending a hand.

 

PS if you need a hand I am off at 1530 today.

 

The Great Crazy one is involved then all is well, just wish I could watch the goings on it would be fun.

 

you're welcome to join us if you'd like. my best guess is that I'll start around 1600.

 

PM me an address

 

Gentlemen,

I know this is an old post....but I'm about to do a clutch job using the Barnett/ Lloydz setup.

How did you guys finial make out with your instalation?

HC did you ever design that part you were talking about?

Any additional comments/suggestions are welcome .

Thanks

 

Gentlemen,

I know this is an old post....but I'm about to do a clutch job using the Barnett/ Lloydz setup.

How did you guys finial make out with your instalation?

HC did you ever design that part you were talking about?

Any additional comments/suggestions are welcome .

Thanks

Mine is working out great. Make no mistake, it's a man clutch; more solid and harder to pull than the stocker.

I don't know the status of whether or not H_C ever got that part made. I ordered mine from Victory. If you end up ordering, be sure to get one for an older cross bike. I think I ordered one for a 2010, but it's in one of the earlier posts. It's called a clutch lifter assembly (CLA) and is on page 9.13 of the service manual if you have one. If you don't have one, get one. Now for the fun part...that new (older) CLA is stronger and will withstand the force, but it is too long to use with the Lloyd'z support plate. Because the plate is thicker, the CLA will extend and hit the back side of the plate when you pull in the clutch lever. The fix is to grind it down. I know, I know, I was skeptical too, but this tip came from Kyle at KMC Motorsports and it is necessary if you want to use the Lloyd'z support plate. I simply installed the CLA, laid the bike over on its right side, put a fire proof welding cloth around everything and took a pneumatic grinder to the CLA until it was just right. Man, I was nervous, but it worked.

One of the best tips I got was from VOG member Squatch. Go to the local hardware store and buy 4 or 5 extra primary cover screws. Cut the heads off of them and use them as guides when you are putting your cover back on. The stator makes it a ***** to guide the cover on and keep the gasket in place all at the same time, but the guide screws help a lot.

This is not a project for the faint of heart and I had a lot of help from H_C, Squatch, KeithGrey and over the phone from Kyle. I felt good when it was done as it was my most in-depth project yet, but the help that I had is what made it a success.

Get a manual, take your time and get some help if need be.

You'll need a spring compressor tool. I have one that KeithGrey had made for me and I'm more than happy to loan it to you if you need it. Not sure where you're located, but shipping should not take all that long. P.S., Victory won't sell you one and neither will the manufacturer. No matter, the one I have is better anyway.