I think we have taken a turn in the oil thread discussions. Maybe for the ........
Better ? Worse ?
Interesting none the less. The bearing thing really gets me. :bigpop:

 

I think we have taken a turn in the oil thread discussions. Maybe for the ........
Better ? Worse ?
Interesting none the less. The bearing thing really gets me. :bigpop:

If you would of told me 5 pages ago this would be another 6 page oil thread I would of said "No sofa king way"

 

I have seen the "synthetics are more slippery" statement called out on some of the oil discussion sites before. The general explanation I have seen is oil "experts" tend to get cranky when people says this because supposedly synthetics are not "more slippery" they are just intended to not break down as fast, resist shearing, etc. The additive package would modify the "slipperyness".

I certainly am not an expert I am just repeating something I have read.

 

And I think you just nailed it. I would be willing to be 98% of it is marketing BS. As you pointed out just a sliver of adjectives that get tossed around with, imo, every intention of confusing the consumer, because honestly, I don't think any of them are all that different. With maybe the exception of a bit more of this or that in the additive dept, which again, i tend to think the majority of is BS.

And so this misinformation or hearsay gets tossed around person after person, thread after thread and some like to assume its gospel and...

Oh good my popcorn's done

 

Oils provide a couple of things.
1) lubricity
2) a thin film that provides a medium to prevent or reduce friction between to objects
3) a medium to transfer heat away from the parent objects.

How oils are made and what additives are introduced into the process determines the properties of the oil. One of the properties is viscosity or the thickness of the lubricant. Viscosity helps reduce metal to metal contact and maintain the film between the parts. as this viscosity breaks down the film between the parts while lubricates reduces if effectiveness on removing heat. heat and metal to metal contact is what does a majority of the bearing surface damage.

Question for the group, our panel of experts, What is the API service rating for OEM Ma Vic Oil? doesn't state it on the bottle or in the manual, just says you have to use it.

API service rating will tell you a lot about oil and it intended use and wear characteristics.

 

Yeah Squatch. That always bothered me as well. The fact that there is nothing on the bottle other than a label with no certifications makes me wonder as to why when I called lube tech and left numerous messages no one had the decency to return my call.

One of the few reasons I chose to switch. Of course the biggest reason which I have stated in the past is the fast shear down of the oil leaving me worried about the protection of my motor.
I am puzzled that so many claim good service life using victory oil yet myself and others have claimed the opposite. Could be the climate, or the way I ride ?

 

Service life as claimed, could it be as simple as "others" have no idea what service life, shearing, viscosity and all those cute little number mean?. Yes I will get flamed for that, but you read some of these posts and you just have to wonder. Please don't get me wrong, I am all for learning and trying new ideas and solutions and after all this is a open forum where 80% of what is read is opinion and out right rubbish, but that what it is.

I have found in this day and age people who listen to their machines and have the ability to take care of them are becoming a rare breed. Shops like KMC, Southern Motorworx and TVS make a good amount of business from those who either would rather pay someone else or can't do themselves.

One guy I know stated that's is what the manufacture recommends why should I change? but then again he only rides about 4-5 thousand miles a year.

As to the labeling of their product, it isn't magic stuff in a bottle and if the factory is buying it in huge quantity is is going to be cheap stuff from an economic standpoint. So with no API service label and no recommended API service oils I am assuming that Victory is just trying to keep you coming back for more. One could say it is a great marketing strategy for those who do not think, or just a way to sell cheap oil at Synthetic prices.

 

Check out the tread "2016 first oil change" the OP posted a picture taken out of his 2016 service manual now recommending Victory's 15/60 full synthetic oil in the 106.
The argument about bearing skate on roller bearings was happening over 10 years ago on the Harley forums. All the "professionals" warned against using a full syn for this reason. Of course that all changed when Harley started selling their Syn 3 Harley branded full syn.
History repeating itself?

 

For some proof of good service life (for synthetic or not) only requires anecdotal evidence such as "I have used oil XYZ and never had an engine failure.

That's fine if you feel ok with it.

For others that not enough. Used oil analysis and scrutinizing dissolved metals etc is the only thing that makes them sleep better.

That's cool too.

Unfortunately for most discussions of oil it usually involves anecdotal evidence because it is all most people have. As was stated before most oil companies are not forthcoming with their formula or even worse (Vic oil) don't even tell you what certifications they meet. This provides a poor starting point for a discussion.

After my first post break in oil change (2500 miles) I plan to start doing oil analysis and try to make my decision on as much empirical evidence as possible cause that's what let's me sleep well at night I guess. Sure I could run any oil and likely never have a problem but there is a certain amount of joy derived from over analysing issues related to my motorcycle.

As usual, to each his own.

 

After reading most of these posts and other threads on the "O" subject I needed some excitement...first I painted my garage wall and wrote the time down...then spent a little time on 89.com...coming back to garage I sat and waited.....1 hour, 37 minutes and 24 seconds...PAINT WAS DRY!!! Whew time for nap

 

Another thought on the bearing issue from the great one.
OEM HP and torques are measured at the crank. Loose 20-25% of that through parasitic losses of the drive train and you have a pretty wimpy ride.

Drop in a set of touring cams
Timing wheel +4 to +6
Air filter that allows for more input and exhaust that works better... You have effectively doubled OEM numbers to the road.

Now you have a hot rod that makes big twist numbers. are the bearings the great one speaks of just undersized for the vast amount of power being produced? Pictures of Half Crazy's main bearings might lead you to think so.

I am one of those who can't leave well enough alone. and if I break it I 1) want to know why it broke and 2) how to keep it from breaking again. My simple mind thinks that if Lloyd is blowing up bottom end bearings it is due to the bearings being undersized or over stressed for the load they are being asked to share.

 

The more you mod any engine its clearances need to change, if oil ( either it be full syn or vic oil ) stays in the rod bearing area to long from rod side clearance being too tight the oil can actually over heat and tear up the bearing surface .

Ive been running the new amsoil victory specific for a few oil changes now and the engine is night and day quieter with less torque compenstor bang/ noise. Im still stock thou and when and if the clutch starts to slip from more power ill mod the clutch to handle the extra tq/hp just like any weak link in the food chain lol Bob G

 

Oil analysis has long been the bench mark to the health of the oil and equipment it is run in. Companies like Blackstone and others usually get results back within two weeks and for a minimal cost. the flip side is finding out your machine is broken which cost much more. I have had the conversation with Lloyd and with all due respect to his building and technical knowhow he scoffs at the fact that I rely on real hard evidence that my engine working correctly thru oil analysis. I have nothing against Lloydz Motorworkz I think they do great work and truly are good people.

 

I agree with the oil analysis, and its great that Lloydz makes aftermarket parts for victorys. But, he's not always right.

 

Don't let their marketing strategy be confused by their ability to make a good product. Personally I like the fact that it's delivered to my door and all for the same price as a Vic oil change kit. I've been using Amsoil products for over 30 years. Its a wonder to me that I haven't become a dealer.
SLICKVIC

ok! Overtime I'm at a Bike Rally they try to make me a DISTRIBUTER to get better pricing... OK for me to be one is my home town area available?? Then they say ohh ohh then back step etc.. Basically their distributer is a customer to others.. The product is good thou

 

+You could always seek out a dealer who provides product at those discounted prices, working only on the minimal commission gained... <hint, hint>.

Ride on.
Roadkill

 

Bearing skate has been around as long as syn oil has been around it's nothing new and is considered a myth.

 

Well, I have just read a pretty extensive report that was done a few years back by our good friends at AMSOIL that put a number of the most popular brands of motorcycle oils through some pretty rigorous scientific tests. These tests were run, data was collected, results were tallied and final scores or rankings were issued.

Well first off, guess which oil achieved the highes scores? No too hard to figure out, huh! But you know what? I believe it. The tests were real, the data was there and the resuts are what they are. AMSOIL really is the Sh!t. But fear not, Vic oil users, the polaris Victory oil product received consistently high rankings and held its own, finishing 4th overall out of 15 that were tested. At the given price point, the Vic oil actually provides a better value propostion. Having said that, I think I am going to change at 4000 miles rather than 5000 like I currently am. This is due to the result after the 4-ball bearing test and acid nuetralization tests. Other than a 4K interval I will stick with the Vic oil. Turns out it's pretty good stuff!

 

...nuff said

 

Oh it's never enough said ever.

 

interestingly enough this thread has taken a turn for the best. No naysaying as usual and some very good opinions on a new topic have risen.
These oils need to meet a JASO MA /MA2 rating as required for a shared motor / trans /clutch and should be used in a bike with a catalytic converter. The new engineered for Victory 20/40 Amsoil Is tested and labeled accordingly. So are many other oils.

Bottom line......its still Motorcyle oil made to perform in a motorcycle. Yes ?

So we have pretty much summed up the fact that bearing skate is myth ? Personally I'm still interested in this subject.

40 wt MC oil only is the only oil to use in a Vic 106? Not according to some of our heavy hitters.

Victory Does not label the classifications / certifications on their bottle of oil? Ok ...... Why ?

So .......What's there to argue about. ?

 

Actually and interestingly enough this thread has taken a turn for the best. No naysaying as usual and some very good opinions on a new topic have risen.
One to to remember. These oils need to meet a JASO MA /MA2 rating as per required for a shared motor / trans /clutch and should be used in a bike with a catalytic converter. This the new engineered for Victory 20/40 Amsoil. It's tested and labeled accordingly. So are many other oils including one of Rotellas blends.

My conclusion is its still Motorcyle oil made to perform in a motorcycle. Yes ?
So we have pretty much summed up the fact that bearing skate is myth ? Personally I'm still interested in this subject.
40 wt MC oil only is the only oil to use in a Vic 106? Not according to some of our heavy hitters.
Victory is afraid to label the classifications / certifications on their bottle of oil? Ok ...... Why ?
What's there to argue about. ?
Lol

Vic oil isn't JASO MA/MA2 rated weird huh it's not listed anywhere bet it's the big $$$$ to get those ratings. Seems the millions of gallons of oil Rotella sells to truckers outweighs what we use and i don't blame them it's business. T5 is just a JASO as Vic oil they just do like VIC and pocket the cert money instead of spending it.

I asked Rotella if they're going to get the JASO and this was the response:
"While I'm not always aware of our marketing group's priorities, I doubt that it is likely we would seek JASO MA or MA2 certification for the Shell Rotella T5 Synthetic Blend products in the near future. While use of our Shell Rotella T Triple Protection Oil SAE 15W-40 and Shell Rotella T6 Full Synthetic Oil SAE 5W-40 in equipment with a wet clutch has become a good niche market for us, it is just that - a niche market. Truthfully, certification takes money, and I don't believe this area is a current priority for Shell Rotella T5 oils."

I respect that no bull**** response. Makes me like them even more.

 

 

Funniest thing yesterday. I was changing the oil in my Honda outboard. A 150 Vtec that holds 6.8 quarts of oil.
My Son in law and I shared a few beverages while the oil was draining. He noticed it coming to an end and went to put the plug back in.
Stop ! I said. Let it drain.
we had a discussion about how much oil could possibly be left in there. I said ........ I can get a 1/2 quart more.
He said never going to happen .

LMAO. I sat there with a funnel and an empty quart bottle and let it drip. The new filter was on so nothing came from there. Do you know 2 beers later I filled that quart bottle to the full line! He couldn't believe it.

This came to mind and we discussed going to a 10 minute oil change facility. How many cars drove away with close to a quart of contaminated oil still left in the engine. Paying for up to 5 quarts of oil but in fact may have only gotten 4 ?

I PUT 6.8 QUARTS OF OIL BACK IN THAT MOTOR. The dip stick read on the money. Had I have let him put the plug back in when he wanted to my once a year new AMSOIL 10W30 MARINE CERTIFIED FOR 4 STROKE ENGINES
would have share its life with a quart of lifeless spent contaminated oil.
Oh the thought just really bothers me. Something to ponder

 

Vic oil works.. it has to.. since they would be on the hook for all the repairs if it didn't. No-one is disputing that. What I can't stomach is the profiteering they engage in with the pricing. Going to a vic dealer to get an oil change is a sobering experience. I suppose if you're in their target audience and only ride enough to need a change once a year it's not that big of a deal... but if this bike is your primary transportation you may end up needing 3 or 4 or more changes a year. That my friends, is a very expensive proposition, both in time and money.

I used the Rotella dino oil for several years in my vics. Used the same service interval as Vic and it performed about identically from my seat of the pants observation. I could probably get 3 oil changes to 1 compared to the vic oil.. and I did it in my driveway toot sweet.

Vic puts this massive premium on everything they sell...I've yet to find a single item that is reasonably priced if it has the vic logo on it. They're allowed to sell stuff for however much they want, it's a free country. I'm just as free to buy elsewhere to get a lot more bang for my buck. Unless and until the cost of and quality of Victory oil significantly improves.. it probably won't be seeing the inside of my engine case.

 

Vic oil works.. it has to.. since they would be on the hook for all the repairs if it didn't. No-one is disputing that. What I can't stomach is the profiteering they engage in with the pricing. Going to a vic dealer to get an oil change is a sobering experience. I suppose if you're in their target audience and only ride enough to need a change once a year it's not that big of a deal... but if this bike is your primary transportation you may end up needing 3 or 4 or more changes a year. That my friends, is a very expensive proposition, both in time and money.

I used the Rotella dino oil for several years in my vics. Used the same service interval as Vic and it performed about identically from my seat of the pants observation. I could probably get 3 oil changes to 1 compared to the vic oil.. and I did it in my driveway toot sweet.

Vic puts this massive premium on everything they sell...I've yet to find a single item that is reasonably priced if it has the vic logo on it. They're allowed to sell stuff for however much they want, it's a free country. I'm just as free to buy elsewhere to get a lot more bang for my buck. Unless and until the cost of and quality of Victory oil significantly improves.. it probably won't be seeing the inside of my engine case.

I let Vic dealer change mine 3-4 times a year, and they don't just change the oil, they also do everything on the checklist in the owners manual. I don't mind paying for that. Plus it strengthens the dealership network. Vic dealers have a hard time staying in business.

 

I would like to know the composition of Vic oil. It did do well in the Amsoil MC test. It also showed that it is not a long life oil.
I never had an issue with it. I had an issue with the price of it for only being a 3000 mile oil. Rotella is a tremendous value compared to Vic oil. Amsoil more so because I pay the same for it and have the benefit of a full synthetic top brand oil that easily will go the distance. The most I've gone on Amsoil 10/40 is 6300 miles. It never told me I needed to be changed. I just figured I should. I now use the new Vic labeled 20/40. I only switched because I was told the new spec was engineered for catalytic converters. Otherwise I would have stayed with the 10/40.

 

Same thing as me, used Rotella, switched to Amsoil using the new 20/40 vic branded. Not so much because of the cats.. those sorta kinda fell outta my pipes along the way...

 

No cats ? Fell out ? Lol
You can use the 10/40 formula if you like. I never would have switched from it if it wasn't for the SLICK marketing of the new formula (had to try it) and a lengthy Conversation with my AMSOIL rep as to the differences leading mostly to catalytic converter issues. Apparently if the oil is not so formulated it could leave an oily film on the cats causing clogging leading to failure. So this new formula may be lacking in an additive or may have an additive preventing this action. I asked if the new composition of the oil would be easier on the clutch fibers to help reduce slippage. The answer there was " all of our MC specific oils are safe to use in Victory clutches.
So No Cats?
Use any of Amsoil's MC specific oils if that's your choice

 

My local Vic dealer told me to change the oil every 3,000 miles and always use the 20-40 semi-synth. He told me because the clutch and tranny share a common bath, it keeps the clutch lasting longer.
He told me of two instances where full synth burned up clutches in a few hundred miles.

I'm no oil expert and too lazy to change a clutch. I can buy a lot of oil for the price of an engine rebuild, as Pop used to tell me!

 

Your Vic dealer gave you good advise.
Every 3 k will keep your motor and trans happy. Keep your clutch cables adjusted and lubed at the barrel ends. Stay out of the friction zone ( don't ride the clutch).
Keep the RPMS between 2000 and 3000 while cruising. Don't load the motor. You will be one of the many enjoying your Victory.

 

He also told me the Elite 3 tires--keep 'em at 41 psig front and rear and don't worry about changing the oil at that 3K interval if on a road trip of 4K.
Running the engine RPM's up the other day, it seemed very wound getting it past 3500 RPM. 4000 RPM, I wasn't gonna do it.

 

Hope you read my previous post. 4300 miles on a long ride and my ENGINE HEADS were rattling! I started with fresh oil change! Keep that Vic oil change at 3k!
That is about right on the E3's psi. I got 17k on mine.
Regards, Jim