[Denny Pink]

For anyone that might be interested, Polaris and Harley-Davidson are both releasing their 4th quarter/yearly financial and earnings reports this Tuesday, January 30th. Will be interesting to see how the Polaris motorcycle division did in 2017.
DP

 

[jedi-mcfly]

... 1 year after ther kick in the babies their stock has close to doubled :-/

 

[jedi-mcfly]

...in the same year HD looks kind of stagnant

 

[98741]

For anyone that might be interested, Polaris and Harley-Davidson are both releasing their 4th quarter/yearly financial and earnings reports this Tuesday, January 30th. Will be interesting to see how the Polaris motorcycle division did in 2017.
DP

Polaris will still never get my money for a bike again. Like it matters

 

[iabob]

For anyone that might be interested, Polaris and Harley-Davidson are both releasing their 4th quarter/yearly financial and earnings reports this Tuesday, January 30th. Will be interesting to see how the Polaris motorcycle division did in 2017.
DP

It will take a little mathematics to get to the truth. For the first three quarters Polaris reported motorcycle sales as X including Y of remaining Victory revenue. This allowed them to show motorcycle sales only being down in the 15-35% range and having even less remaining Victory revenue in 2018 this method will soften that blow as well. But if you subtract Y from X, call that Z and compare to last year, ie: Polaris sales without Victory revenue, they are down through three quarters in the range of 35-55%. Without any big releases I see no reason why Q4 would be any different.

I will be more interested in Harley's numbers. Unlike Indian there has been major changes at HD. And while Q4 isn't exactly strong motorcycle sales season, comparing it to Q4 prior year should give us an indication of how well the new Softails are being received.

 

[Denny Pink]

For anyone that might be interested, Polaris and Harley-Davidson are both releasing their 4th quarter/yearly financial and earnings reports this Tuesday, January 30th. Will be interesting to see how the Polaris motorcycle division did in 2017.
DP

Article in USA Today newspaper reports H-D is closing their Kansas City plant, cutting 800 jobs!! Slumping sales. WOW!
DP

 

[8 Ball Vicxen]

Interesting

 

[Gossamer]

the numbers don't mean much. The latest Indian recall on Roadmasters shows 7.392 models over a 3 year span(2015-2017). Assuming that's all the Roadmasters built(you can still find a few new leftovers) Indian sales aren't exactly gangbusters. I'm guessing across the board they're selling Indians at about the same rate Victory was at their demise.

What ultimately matters is profits. When they're asking 28,000 for an RM vs the 22,500 they were getting for a CCT it's obvious the profits are in the Indian bed which is what killed Victory.

Now with HD, you're still talking a quarter million bikes. Overhead is probably much higher but cost per bike build is probably less due to scale-ability.

Needless to say both these brands are fighting for what currently seems to be a shrinking market.

HD must evolve or die since bikes are their only product. Polaris can survive a longer downturn since they're market is mostly off-road.

To me, sounds like a good time to go HD shopping.

 

[pella cholla]

2016 Indian Roadmaster®

I saw this bike over the weekend. Pretty bike overall but was highly disappointed by the wear of the leather seat on this bike. It looked as if it had damn near 100k by the looks of it but the bike only has 15k or so. It was worn in the butt area and the sides where the legs and knees are. I don't think Polaris has any stake in the industry with this type of quality. For the price they are asking for this bike used today, this is the MSRP price of a CCT new in 2016. So sad. In my opinion, i don't think a seat should look this way with only 15k on it

 

[vision_nut]

Harley-Davidson Announces Fourth Quarter, Full-Year 2017 Results. Struggling To Reverse A Four-year Sales Decline. Closing Kansas City Plant.

Polaris Reports 2017 Fourth Quarter and Full Year Results. Record Fourth Quarter Sales Up 18%. Expecting A sharper-Than-Expected Slowdown In Growth In 2018.

 

[NY mike]

It’s true kc plant is closing down n 2017 Harley lacked one quarter that sales went up sales falling all year just like 2016 the Milwaukee 8 was not the savior they hoped it would be. Also these millennial kids want nothing to do with this motorcycle scene just not interested.

 

[Gossamer]

i'm not so sure it's lack of interest in bikes as it is lack of funds.

Hell, i've got a very good job, a nice home that's a few years from payoff, no credit card debt, yet I cringe looking at some of these bike prices. Hard to justify the funding especially in the snow belt where I live. You could say I'm 'well established(otherwise known as old) but I have a hard time looking at 30,000+ sedans, 45,000 SUV and 60,000 pickups.

Let alone 20,000+ motorcycles.

And lets face it, probably half of the upcoming generation is too busy playing call of duty to be concerned with going out into the sunlight.

 

[NY mike]

i'm not so sure it's lack of interest in bikes as it is lack of funds.

Hell, i've got a very good job, a nice home that's a few years from payoff, no credit card debt, yet I cringe looking at some of these bike prices. Hard to justify the funding especially in the snow belt where I live. You could say I'm 'well established(otherwise known as old) but I have a hard time looking at 30,000+ sedans, 45,000 SUV and 60,000 pickups.

Let alone 20,000+ motorcycles.

And lets face it, probably half of the upcoming generation is too busy playing call of duty to be concerned with going out into the sunlight.

BMW goldwing Indian they are selling and they are in the same price range I really think riders are getting a little tired of the HD raping imo personally if they closed the doors I could care less like we said for years they died from the greed it mite be coming lol

 

[Blackened]

i'm not so sure it's lack of interest in bikes as it is lack of funds.

Hell, i've got a very good job, a nice home that's a few years from payoff, no credit card debt, yet I cringe looking at some of these bike prices. Hard to justify the funding especially in the snow belt where I live. You could say I'm 'well established(otherwise known as old) but I have a hard time looking at 30,000+ sedans, 45,000 SUV and 60,000 pickups.

Let alone 20,000+ motorcycles.

And lets face it, probably half of the upcoming generation is too busy playing call of duty to be concerned with going out into the sunlight.

Totally agree with this. I make over 90K/yr not including my wife's income and I won't even look at a bike that is over 15K. Our cars and our bikes (02' F-150, 13' Edge, 13' Mustang GT, 96' Magna, and 98' Vulcan) were all bought used, the most expensive being the mustang GT which was Still under 20K. I know there are a lot of guys that spend a TON of money on things like this but I can't see dropping that kind of change on a depreciating asset. I'll let someone else take the upfront hit. Hell, I had a hard time spending the money to buy the Mustang and the Vic and the Vic was only $6200!!

 

[Gossamer]

Indian isn't really selling, BMW

BMW goldwing Indian they are selling and they are in the same price range I really think riders are getting a little tired of the HD raping imo personally if they closed the doors I could care less like we said for years they died from the greed it mite be coming lol

Harley is still selling bikes as well, a few hundred thousand annually. But sales are shrinking, as it is for ALL manufacturers, sans Indian, who has seen small growth overall and arguably, they may not have seen that if they didn't pull the plug on Victory. Also many companies have low end models, such as the Rebel, small Ninja's etc. ie the sub $5000 market. HD is trying into that market with their 500 and 750 which doesn't seem to have had much success, especially in the USA.

Take the 'cheap bikes', the offroad models etc out of the picture and I'm sure that you'll see drops as well.

 

[topcat]

2016 Indian Roadmaster®
i don't think a seat should look this way with only 15k on it

The seat looks pretty good to me. almost looks new in the pic.

 

[NY mike]

Indian isn't really selling, BMW

Harley is still selling bikes as well, a few hundred thousand annually. But sales are shrinking, as it is for ALL manufacturers, sans Indian, who has seen small growth overall and arguably, they may not have seen that if they didn't pull the plug on Victory. Also many companies have low end models, such as the Rebel, small Ninja's etc. ie the sub $5000 market. HD is trying into that market with their 500 and 750 which doesn't seem to have had much success, especially in the USA.

Take the 'cheap bikes', the offroad models etc out of the picture and I'm sure that you'll see drops as well.

The 500 and 750 are being dropped no sales

 

[NY mike]

I gotta say just from talking to my local dealers because I still own 2 myself they say sales are terrible still sitting on new 17,s they can’t get off. The fact is the dealers cross this country have never seen such an abundance of left over stock they have cut down production considerably on 18,s in fear of a worst scenario when the 19,s come out in September. This is a fact from the Wall Street journal

 

[iabob]

Indian isn't really selling, BMW

Harley is still selling bikes as well, a few hundred thousand annually. But sales are shrinking, as it is for ALL manufacturers, sans Indian, who has seen small growth overall and arguably, they may not have seen that if they didn't pull the plug on Victory. Also many companies have low end models, such as the Rebel, small Ninja's etc. ie the sub $5000 market. HD is trying into that market with their 500 and 750 which doesn't seem to have had much success, especially in the USA.

Take the 'cheap bikes', the offroad models etc out of the picture and I'm sure that you'll see drops as well.

Actually all manufacturers are not shrinking. Ducati, BMW, KTM have all had several years of growth. Not sure about the Asian brands. I'm also not sure that Indian is growing. I'm absolutely certain that Polaris is down. The motorcycle division's revenue is up, but that includes Slinghsots which they claimed doubled in sales from Q4 last year. So Polaris is reporting Indian's revenue is up, well so is Harley's. Harley is selling fewer bikes but more expensive ones to get the increase. Is that also what Indian is doing??? We cnat know because of how PII brass report.

 

[98741]

HD has so many left over bikes and trade ins. But they almost never budge on pricing.