[Cobra Rider]

A bit of a read.

When I got my 11 XC, it had the CATS removed. It had RPW exhaust with the Lloydz GENIII controller 6250 Rev Limiter flash ECU and it had a real nice pin your ears back feeling. But the RPW pipes (great performing pipes, more during read) just didn't fit my taste for sound. Search led to the Raging Cajun pipes. When I put the Cajun pipes on it, it sounded great, but some reason it seemed to lacked the pin your ears back feeling. Put a lollipop in it because of the comments on the backpressure needed and it helped. Better, but still lacked. So I picked up a PCV and had it tuned by KevinX. Ran great, but still deep inside it wasn't the pin your ears but I thought just maybe it was because I'm accustomed to it.

Picked up a 2014 last week, rode it home, and it felt stronger. I didn't see any performance things just that it had V&H pipes. But it's redline was at 6k so it got me investigating. Initial deep peek revealed timing gear, Lloydz intake, and PCV. Digging deeper, VM1. Cool, got a better deal than I thought. I went for a ride the other day with me 2 up on my 11 and Son riding the 14. The 14 with the V&H sounds nice riding alongside. Up a bit of a grade we did a roll on in 5th and he pulled the living crapola out of me with the 14. 4th, same thing, actually worse.

Went to a friends and I'm toying in my head, hmm, likely because I'm 2 up with more weight but it didn't add up in my head. On the way back, I grabbed the 14 still 2 up, Son on my 11 and the 14 still pulled the crap outta my 11. WTF?

Yesterday Son and I did some things. Had PCV maps from both bikes so just going through scenarios. Swap maps, 14 still pulls. Swap pipes 14 still pulls although not as much. What I learned while swapping pipes is that the 14 still had it's CATS installed. The CATS are providing so much more torque at the roll arena that regardless of what I did to my 11, I couldn't roll it to the 14. I am able to get ahead during a drag from 1st gear roll starting at 2k RPM because my 11 Rev's quicker because the exhaust system flows easier but even then it's a pretty close match.

Basically, what I learned is 2 fold. The V&H pipe is a good grunt performer pipe. The Cajun is a good breathing pipe. The CAT helps a TON in the torque arena. And the RPW helps in both areas when CATS removed because I'm sure it out pulled with them on my 11 before I swapped to the Cajun.

Bike does run a bit warmer with CATS in place but I can vouch first hand side by side that the CATS need to stay.

 

[vision_nut]

for your model bike keeping cats give you low end grunt. Steel frame bikes pick up power

 

[canoe68]

The cats will also stay in because it’s to much a a pain in the @ss to remove them.
On a side note. How many baffles or plugs are in the exhaust? Just courious..

 

[Cobra Rider]

The cats will also stay in because it's to much a a pain in the @ss to remove them.
On a side note. How many baffles or plugs are in the exhaust? Just courious..

I haven't tried to pull them yet but it's a stepped exhaust, smaller then larger so I would venture to say 2 but it could be one with more packing at the larger end area.

The only problem I have with the V&H, like many have mentioned, because the front of the slip on is smaller it doesn't match the shield from the head pipe leaving a gap. I have a couple sets of shields so I'm going to experiment with cutting one to size see how it lines up. I'm only curious about the shield stands, they might be too tall. I've played with those stands a little with tweaking them to get a tighter fit in areas but it's hard to do without leaving a dimple in the shield that when looking closely you can see them.

 

[Cobra Rider]

for your model bike keeping cats give you low end grunt. Steel frame bikes pick up power

Agreed. I pick up on top end but that roll on grunt is a tough one to pass up. Plus it's likely to get better economy since it's in the torque area, common RPM.

 

[Bueller]

Most conversations about the performance mods do not include removing cats. I thought it was stupid early on. Here is proof.

Victory

116/116 with the cams. I have not read enough big bore installs to have much thought on those but Ill bet for the extra10-15hp there most cats are still left in.

 

[slickvic]

The real difference is the 14 has cams !
Your looking at at least 20 more HP and around 5 more Ft lbs. Oh and yes the Cats being removed definitely hurt some torque.

 

[Half_Crazy]

It's not just Victory.

The first thing Harley guys do is pull the cats out. Someone told them they should. Bad idea. That's not the solution for the heat... tuning is.

The stock head pipes, cats and all, with a smallish diameter slip-ons will produce better torque and horsepower than almost any aftermarket full exhaust on an engine up to the stage 2 level.

Dyna S w/110"... Cored the baffles out and it made 102/126.
Took the stock pipes off and installed a Thunderheader 2-1 system. It made 102/126. Nothing changed but the sound, hardly changed the curves at all.

 

[Cobra Rider]

Most conversations about the performance mods do not include removing cats. I thought it was stupid early on. Here is proof.

Victory

116/116 with the cams. I have not read enough big bore installs to have much thought on those but Ill bet for the extra10-15hp there most cats are still left in.

I knew there was a difference, which its why I put lollipops in mine. My cats were gone when I got the bike. But i didn't realize physically how much

 

[Cobra Rider]

The cats will also stay in because it's to much a a pain in the @ss to remove them.
On a side note. How many baffles or plugs are in the exhaust? Just courious..

Looked. 2 baffles per

 

[Cobra Rider]

It's not just Victory.

The first thing Harley guys do is pull the cats out. Someone told them they should. Bad idea. That's not the solution for the heat... tuning is.

The stock head pipes, cats and all, with a smallish diameter slip-ons will produce better torque and horsepower than almost any aftermarket full exhaust on an engine up to the stage 2 level.

Dyna S w/110"... Cored the baffles out and it made 102/126.
Took the stock pipes off and installed a Thunderheader 2-1 system. It made 102/126. Nothing changed but the sound, hardly changed the curves at all.

Understood. I would imagine that if I were to put the RPW pipes on it I would pick up a little more but not much. That's probably why I got the performance from it when I got it as the RPW is a semi restrictive pipe compared to the VH or the Cajun.
Yeah, I'm either going to saddle that 14 or take its head pipes with CATS. LOL. I might be able to help it with larger lollipops but that's all experimental and not proven .

 

[Cobra Rider]

The real difference is the 14 has cams !
Your looking at at least 20 more HP and around 5 more Ft lbs. Oh and yes the Cats being removed definitely hurt some torque.

11 has cams. Everything is equal cept the cats

 

[Half_Crazy]

I knew there was a difference, which its why I put lollipops in mine. My cats were gone when I got the bike. But i didn't realize physically how much

Lolipops will give you some restriction, but the cats can actually increase exhaust velocity. That's why to leave them in.

 

[slickvic]

11 has cams. Everything is equal cept the cats

Ok. Cats it is. You didn't mention cams in your opening post. Did you ?

 

[Cobra Rider]

Ok. Cats it is. You didn't mention cams in your opening post. Did you ?

Guess I assumed it was given, but wet all know assume can make an a $$ out of u and me. Lol

 

[Poseidon]

Guess I assumed it was given, but wet all know assume can make an a $$ out of u and me. Lol

It would be a given, except some owners don't have a hammer...

 

[slickvic]

Nope. Didn’t read nothing about cams being in the 11. Just the 14. Was hoping to have an easy answer for you but will say that Kyle who tuned my 11 said leave the cats in. Loss of torque and it would be noticeable.
The stock head pipe and cat arrangement is actually performance designed for torque as these motors are more designed to perform in the upper rpm range. Even freedom true duals have shown no power increases over stock in some Dyno runs. At times less torque was shown. The bottom line ......... the stock exhaust is actually pretty good. Just sounds like crap.

 

[Cobra Rider]

Nope. Didn't read nothing about cams being in the 11. Just the 14. Was hoping to have an easy answer for you but will say that Kyle who tuned my 11 said leave the cats in. Loss of torque and it would be noticeable.
The stock head pipe and cat arrangement is actually performance designed for torque as these motors are more designed to perform in the upper rpm range. Even freedom true duals have shown no power increases over stock in some Dyno runs. At times less torque was shown. The bottom line ......... the stock exhaust is actually pretty good. Just sounds like crap.

Oh I realize I didn't mention it, but it is in my Sig. It's all good, we're on the same page

 

[slickvic]

Must be my IPhone. I didn’t see it on your sig either. I loose some VOG extras when I’m on this thing.
A conquest pulley May put a little more spunk into that 11 in keeping up with that 14. Hard to believe the cats alone responsible for that solid wall away. I think it’s in the tune more.

 

[slickvic]

Oh look at that. I turned the phone sideways and there it is. Duh.