VOG Forum banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I got the chance to ride a Cross Roads today for the second time and noticed this time the wine of the gear driven primary. Can someone tell me why they do this versus the belt or chain that other people use?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,039 Posts
Biggest reason is durability. Gears don't stretch or break unless something has gone horribly wrong
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
395 Posts
Be thankful the Vic's have that. If I'm not mistaken I believe HD guys pay big bucks to convert theirs to gear-to-gear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,675 Posts

Jackpot52 said:
Be thankful the Vic's have that. If I'm not mistaken I believe HD guys pay big bucks to convert theirs to gear-to-gear.
I'm wondering if you are thinking of the cams.
The Twin cams are chain driven and a lot of people switch to gear driven cams for less noise and better performance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,675 Posts

Iceman5218 said:
I got the chance to ride a Cross Roads today for the second time and noticed this time the wine of the gear driven primary. Can someone tell me why they do this versus the belt or chain that other people use?
Both my HD's were chain driven primary's, i'll take a noisey, rock solid, zero maintenance gear driven primary any day.
I kinda like the whine, reminds me of home when i'm out, lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
395 Posts
spider said:
Jackpot52 said:
Be thankful the Vic's have that. If I'm not mistaken I believe HD guys pay big bucks to convert theirs to gear-to-gear.
I'm wondering if you are thinking of the cams.
The Twin cams are chain driven and a lot of people switch to gear driven cams for less noise and better performance.
Yea, oops sorry. I am not a HD guy, I know my HD friends were talking about a gear-to-gear conversion on something.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,651 Posts
There is also a power loss factor , minimul but it is there . I know from experience with heavy equipment . If you want power to the ground and durability it has to be gears!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,361 Posts
Less is best...hard for something that isn't there to go wrong (or require maint.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ok, so if the gear driven is the Gold standard (I think Honda uses it on the Wing too), then why has Harley not went to it as well. I know this is a Victory board, but hear me out. For the time being, Harley is the standard that all motorcycles are measured by in the United States. It is no small secret that at one point and time Harley had a problem with reliability (so would say they still do). So if gear driven is the standard, why would the "the standard" not go to it.

Once again, a Victory Cross Roads is going to be my next bike, I'm just curious as to why some things are the way they are.

Also thought it was funny yesterday when I went to drive the Cross Roads that the Victory dealership is literally across the street from the Harley dealership. Now that's what I call a stare down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,725 Posts

Harley has two seperate cases, one for crankshaft and one for transmission, chain or belt drive is their way ofconnecting the two, have you noticed the distance between the 2 drive sprockets.
What size in dia. would the 2 gears have to be to mesh?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,209 Posts
Iceman5218 said:
Ok, so if the gear driven is the Gold standard (I think Honda uses it on the Wing too), then why has Harley not went to it as well. I know this is a Victory board, but hear me out. For the time being, Harley is the standard that all motorcycles are measured by in the United States. It is no small secret that at one point and time Harley had a problem with reliability (so would say they still do). So if gear driven is the standard, why would the "the standard" not go to it.

Once again, a Victory Cross Roads is going to be my next bike, I'm just curious as to why some things are the way they are.

Also thought it was funny yesterday when I went to drive the Cross Roads that the Victory dealership is literally across the street from the Harley dealership. Now that's what I call a stare down.
HD is the standard for traditional design, and far from the engineering standard. Most of their engineering decisions are based on the need to please the tradition customer base. Otherwise we would be looking at the evolution of the NOVA engine, and not the pushrod variants that we see.
Victory on the other hand has the advantage of the clean sheet for design. With no NEED to look at the past; they were able to pick engineering paths that were not cluttered with emotion. That is why they went OHC, 4 valve heads, Hemi cumbustion chambers, single unit architecture, hybred oil air cooling, wet sump oiling, and a host of other engineering advancements; that make the Vic the most reliable V-Twin on the road
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
kevinx01 said:
HD is the standard for traditional design, and far from the engineering standard. Most of their engineering decisions are based on the need to please the tradition customer base. Otherwise we would be looking at the evolution of the NOVA engine, and not the pushrod variants that we see.
Victory on the other hand has the advantage of the clean sheet for design. With no NEED to look at the past; they were able to pick engineering paths that were not cluttered with emotion. That is why they went OHC, 4 valve heads, Hemi cumbustion chambers, single unit architecture, hybred oil air cooling, wet sump oiling, and a host of other engineering advancements; that make the Vic the most reliable V-Twin on the road
OK Kevin, ya peaked my interest. What's the "NOVA" engine?
Also, now I'm going to get a license plate bracket that reads "Yeah, It's Got A Hemi" just to confuse people!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts

Nevermind, I found it.
http://www.bikerenews.com/AntiqueBikes/CodeNameNova.htm
That is truely a shame. Had the NOVA come to fruition along with the current twin, HD might own an even bigger section of the market. Man, their Screaming Eagle division would have turned out a monster with this. If the stock mill turned out 135hp, the SE would have been retena flattening. And with a V4 setup the TQ numbers would have been high as well.
Oh well, Atsa da way da cookie crumbles.......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,150 Posts
kevinx01 said:
HD is the standard for traditional design, and far from the engineering standard. Most of their engineering decisions are based on the need to please the tradition customer base. Otherwise we would be looking at the evolution of the NOVA engine, and not the pushrod variants that we see.
Damn, a water-cooled V-4 in an HD 25 years ago... If they did that today I think I know what my next bike would be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
Harley has the biggest market share but that's mostly because of brand loyalty. Harley makes very slow and calculated design changes to their bikes. The plus to that is the fact that their parts have long life spans so when your coil goes out and they use the same coil for 40 year, it is easy to get a new one. The bad side of it is they don't take advantage of all of the new tech that is out there. The basic design of the motor is still the same as the old Knuckle head though the twin cam was a big leap for them.

Contrast that with the metric bikes that redo everything and every part every few years. Have a metric part break on a 5+ year old bike while your on the road and good luck getting back on the road fast.

Victory had the advantage of starting with a fresh slate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,725 Posts
dsjr70 said:
kevinx01 said:
HD is the standard for traditional design, and far from the engineering standard. Most of their engineering decisions are based on the need to please the tradition customer base. Otherwise we would be looking at the evolution of the NOVA engine, and not the pushrod variants that we see.
Damn, a water-cooled V-4 in an HD 25 years ago... If they did that today I think I know what my next bike would be.
Really now. They wouldn't have the Potato, Potato sound they have now.
Being a V-4 it would soundmore like Cowpatty, Cowpatty if you know what i mean.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,150 Posts

CVI-Cowboy said:
Contrast that with the metric bikes that redo everything and every part every few years. Have a metric part break on a 5+ year old bike while your on the road and good luck getting back on the road fast.
Being a metric owner all of my life until recently I found it quite the opposite. The C class Suzuki are relatively unchanged in 20 years. Big change was the name from Volusia to Boulevard. The hot engines in the sport bikes find their way into other lower end models... ie GSXR to Katana and also into off-road vehicles
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,150 Posts
OneThumb said:
dsjr70 said:
kevinx01 said:
HD is the standard for traditional design, and far from the engineering standard. Most of their engineering decisions are based on the need to please the tradition customer base. Otherwise we would be looking at the evolution of the NOVA engine, and not the pushrod variants that we see.
Damn, a water-cooled V-4 in an HD 25 years ago... If they did that today I think I know what my next bike would be.
Really now. They wouldn't have the Potato, Potato sound they have now.
Being a V-4 it would soundmore like Cowpatty, Cowpatty if you know what i mean.
I ride a Victory and a Honda.... I dont care about no stinking potato....lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Outside of the Wing (I think) what other bikes use a Gear to Gear primary? I think we have decided that Gear/Gear is the Gold Standard. So knowing what bikes use G/G and which use belt/chain lets us know which are Harley imitators and which are truly giving the MoCo a run for their money.

I'm not against Harley, it just really bugs me that my 1300 VTX can blow most of their bikes away and they have 300ish cc more engine. Its a great business decision but I can't stand it.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top