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I'm not sure which direction this thread is headed, so I'll add my two cents:

We can all thank Lloydz for thinking outside of the box to deliver mods, that for whatever reason (I'll "assume" Governmental), that the factory cannot provide to the rider. Whether a rider feels the need to install these mods or not is up to the individual rider. Not all mods are for everyone.

With that said, I can understand a Dealer's frustration in not wanting to deal with problems that may have been caused by someone else's products and expect to repair the issues under an existing warranty. Yes, I'm reading into this and since I wasn't there, I have to make assumptions. Who knows what caused that Dealer to blurt out that statement? I can only guess it was an encounter with a disgruntled customer.

As Newton's Third Law States: To every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

If this holds true for bike mods, then it's very possible that increasing horsepower may lead to a shorter life span or possibly, there's another trade off. Maybe this theory is incorrect when it comes to bikes. I'm far from an expert in this field. Either way, if someone feels the need for speed and is unsatisfied with the "out of the box" performance, it is nice to have choices.

Personally, since you can barely fill a thimble with my knowledge of the internal combustion engine, I can only hope that some who are better versed in this area will chime-in and share their knowledge on this subject.

I'm just glad that my Spyder is faster than DSJR70's B-King!

Yeah, right!
 

I'm throwing this out there to get more information based on a conversation I had with the owner of Best Buy Polaris in Ft. Pierce.

I've read pretty much nothing but glowing reports about how great Lloyd is and how great his products are but without even mentioning Lloyd by name, simply talking about how to increase the HP and TQ on my Cross Country Jim blurts out, "Whatever you do DO NOT let Lloyd touch your motor"!

He then goes on to explain how Lloyd is personally responsible for 2 dealers in the NE going out of business due to blown motors and how the engineers at Victory are very anti Lloyd and wish he would stop putting customer's motors at risk with his power packages. He also relates personal horror stories about Lloyd'z modified motors that he's had come into his shop.

Pretty darn harsh words from a dealer with nothing to gain or lose and without even being asked about Lloyd directly.

So, what's the real story here?

I beleive this was the topic we started with, most of the comments made so far are not even related to this
Regards
 
Andy said:
Personally, since you can barely fill a thimble with my knowledge of the internal combustion engine, I can only hope that some who are better versed in this area will chime-in and share their knowledge on this subject.
Since it seems to have come down to personal preference... stock or modified...and there seems to be no technical sticking point in contention, I fail to see what anyone's technical knowledgewill be able to clear up for you, Andy.
 
Sutherland said:
I beleive this was the topic we started with, most of the comments made so far are not even related to this
There were posts addressing that very question.
Let me make this easy: WHATEVER YOU DO, DON'T LET LLOYDZ TOUCH YOUR MOTOR, SAVE THELLOYDZ-BUILT ENGINES FOR PEOPLE WHO WILL APPRECIATE THEM.
 
I have said earlier, I have not heard of Lloyd's stuff being bad.

I can see a guy blowing a motor or doing an install wrong and having a warranty claim denied. Victory didn't make the cams or install the power commander etc. etc.

That could make for some very hard feelings at a dealership. Look at the number of complaints we have about popping exhaust and why they can't make it right at Victory.

Imagine an engine meltdown, oh boy! Or, clutch wear when it was designed for a specific amount of torque could be a bone of contention later in warranty along with transmission issues.

We are assuming that Lloyds knows more than the engineers that made from the ground up the Freedom V-Twin motor. Somehow, I think they made the best power with the best life span balancing the best of all worlds to the best of their ability. I am sure they had the knowledge and ability to do the heads and cams a lot better and a lot hotter. They decided not to. I don't now why engineers would not push the motor to its very limit of perfection and performance. There must be a down side.

If I were a dealer I would have all my folks sign a disclaimer before I did Lloyds components in a warranted Victory.

I know, I know, Victory has to prove the relationship an all that rhetoric. Its still a pain and still risky. I would never alter the inards of a warranted motorcycle with 3rd party parts. I can't afford to buy a new motor while others would argue over who broke it.
 

mjw930 said:
I'm throwing this out there to get more information based on a conversation I had with the owner of Best Buy Polaris in Ft. Pierce.

I've read pretty much nothing but glowing reports about how great Lloyd is and how great his products are but without even mentioning Lloyd by name, simply talking about how to increase the HP and TQ on my Cross Country Jim blurts out, "Whatever you do DO NOT let Lloyd touch your motor"!

He then goes on to explain how Lloyd is personally responsible for 2 dealers in the NE going out of business due to blown motors and how the engineers at Victory are very anti Lloyd and wish he would stop putting customer's motors at risk with his power packages. He also relates personal horror stories about Lloyd'z modified motors that he's had come into his shop.

Pretty darn harsh words from a dealer with nothing to gain or lose and without even being asked about Lloyd directly.

So, what's the real story here?
What are the names and locations of the two Victory dealers which wereput out of business by the blown motors for which lloyd was responsible?
Please elaborate as to how blown motors put these dealers out of business.
Were the modifications to these motors done by Lloyd's or by the dealers, or by someone else using lloyd's components?
What modifications were done and what components were changed or added?
Regarding this dealer's personal horror stories about Lloyd's modified motors, what exactly are these stories? Who are the persons who own the bikes affected?
Since so many Victory owners post on this and several other site, all of which I visit regularly, I find it puzzling that I have seen no reports by any Victory owners stating that any dealers have gone out of business due to motors blown by lloyd's modification and none about any deleterious effects which would produce "horror stories".
I have heard rumors of front pistons seizing in some earlyS&S big bore or stroker kits provided by S&S and also that that problem has been remedied long since, but that would be an S&S problem.
Please elaborate on the Victory engineers' being anti-Lloyd's. It makes me wonder why Victory host's Lloyd every year at the American Victory Rally in Spirit Lake. I would think that if they have a problem with what LLoyd does to or provides for Victory motorcycles, that would not want him at the rally.
I have had (With no problems resulting.) work done on one of bikes by Lloydz, and intend in the reasonbly near future, to have engine work done by Lloydz on the other. As far as I am concerned, you have opened a large can of worms here, and I sincerly hope that you can talk to "Jim" again and get details and facts regarding his remarks. I would especially like to get the names of the dealerships and owners of the bikes involved, as I hope I would be able to communicate with them personally reagrding the matter. Thank you.
 

satxron said:
I don't know why engineers would not push the motor to its very limit of perfection and performance. There must be a down side.
There is this little Federal agency called the EPA. Motorcycles sold in the United States have to meet very strict exhaust emissions and noise standards. This severely limits what the engineers at Victory can do. They WISH they could make the bikes as powerful as they could while retainingreliability, because these thingswould easily make 1 HP/cubic inch. This is also why the new 96" Harley motors only make 63 HP.That's all that dinosaur will make in emissions legal tune, and the thing runs so hot it's about to melt down... to the point of having the computer shut off the rear cylinder at idle. Did Harley engineer it this way because it was the best engineering they could come up with?Did theengineers atHD say to each other "Let's shoot for 63 horsepower"?Hardly.
 

I have and will again and currentlyhave Lloyds stuff installed in my engines. They all ran better and all are still runnung with NO issues. I do not know of anyone that have had issues installing Lloyd's stuff. I would not hesitate to have Lloyd's stuff in my Bike. I would be picky about who installs it.
If you are happy with stock....Be happy.....
 

Wow what a silly thread this is....
Stock Sporster turns a 13.2, and not a high 12
Those 600 sport bikes may be able to take me in ther full 1320, but on the street my fat ass bagger eats them alive with almost double the torque
I have stood in a circle talking with Lloyd, and the head of Vic tech services, and the three of us had a grat time. While Vic can not recomend lloydz stuff. They are FAR from anit Lloyd
With the exception of a run of bad pistons by Wiesco. I have never heard of an issue with a Lloydz part
Having installed prolly more Lloydz parts then anybody outside of Pine Bush. I have nothing but glowing praise for the products, and service provided.
FINALLY you may not understand the need for speed that many feel, but do not put down things that you DO NOT understand.
 
Discussion starter · #53 ·
kevinx01 said:
Wow what a silly thread this is....

FINALLY you may not understand the need for speed that many feel, but do not put down things that you DO NOT understand.
Kevin,

the tread may have gotten silly but the initial post wasn't IMHO. I was really shocked at the attitude Jim took without provocation towards Lloyd'z. I didn't go in there asking about Lloyd'z parts or stuff, just stating a desire to build up my XC into something better than it is today and he launched into his attack.

Now I know as well as the next guy that extreme performance can equal extreme failures, it comes with the territory. **** happens when you push the limits and anyone who doesn't understand that should never venture beyond stock.

I'm thinking that some of the "issues" are with people who want the performance but didn't or don't understand that once you break the seal on that motor, Victory and your dealer are off the hook, warranty wise. I understand Magnuson-Moss very well but the reality is it won't protect you when you get into the motor no matter what your dealer or supplier tells you so don't even go there, you'll lose.

Back to the point, it's impossible that everything Lloyd has built has been perfect but reading the Internet it would have you believing that. There's nothing wrong with documenting the bad with the good, it paints the proper picture so you have all the facts. Perhaps the point Jim was trying to make, especially since he doesn't know me from Adam, might be that the 100% success rate portrayed in the Internet is not the whole story. I just think the way he chose to do it was pretty harsh.

As for getting more detail, you can call Jim and ask him, I have no dog in this hunt.
 
Half_Crazy said:
There is this little Federal agency called the EPA. Motorcycles sold in the United States have to meet very strict exhaust emissions and noise standards. This severely limits what the engineers at Victory can do. They WISH they could make the bikes as powerful as they could while retainingreliability, because these thingswould easily make 1 HP/cubic inch. (sniped for brevity, I get it) Did theengineers atHD say to each other "Let's shoot for 63 horsepower"?Hardly.
Now that is the normal 1/2! Thank you.

I get it now. EPA controls Victory but after aftermarket they are not EPA compliant. If Victory could keep them compliant they would build them a lot hotter. Once built and sold there is nothing anybody can to stop that. I had no idea.

I am surprised Victory dealers will install things that are not EPA compliant but on the dealer level I assume its not manufacturing so OK to do.

My other question is, does Victory warrant a motor meltdown with Lloyds cams and heads in and on it? That scares me.
 

I was not trying to offend anyone. I posted the Article about Lloydz to try to give the OP some info on the man and his location so he could find out more.
As far as upgrades me I'm a if it ain't broke I don't try to fix it kind of guy.
I would never tell someone not to buy the best parts they can find and install them.
Me I will get new exhaust pipes when thestock'sfail ,if there are better pipes available I will consider them.
Same with my 106 motor.
I have a great looking bagger that hauls me and mine anywhere I want to go.
 
satxron said:
I am surprised Victory dealers will install things that are not EPA compliant but on the dealer level I assume its not manufacturing so OK to do.

My other question is, does Victory warrant a motor meltdown with Lloyds cams and heads in and on it? That scares me.
Outside of Cali all a dealer needs is a statement that the owner does not intend the vehicle off of the track. Same thing has gone for the auto market for a LONG time, and if you look atr the S1 pipes you will see that they state for off road use only.

No, Vic will not warrenty aftermarket parts in their motors, but then again I have NEVER heard af a cam failure issue. Between new, and old Vics I have personally done over 150 such upgrades. So that would just be crying wolf. Big bores, and pistons would be another matter, and you really should understand going in that there is a higher chance for failure; the farther into the motor you go.

Saying Lloyd put a dealer out of bussiness is straight BS. There has been one bike that gave a store fits, and cost both Lloyd, and the dealer fits, before discovering an engineering mistake made by one of the largest p[iston manufacturers in trhe US. I can assure you though that the dealer in question is STILL in bussiness.
 

+1, to mudge & kevinX's posts. It seems that a few folks in vogland assumed that this dealer in fort pierce flordia, comments were true, and just ran wid it, but simple logic says NO-WAY , come on!!!, 2 Dealers going out of biz because of Lloydz parts & workmanship????, that would mean that All or most of their customers had Lloydz work done & then ALL their stuff broke or blew up (yea-rite) and not just 1 dealer but 2 dealers, Wadda think the odds are of that happening, Then there are the "horror-stories", OK !! who-what-where-& when???, Plus if VIC hated Lloydz they wouldnt give'em good press in the Victory rider mag. If we look at all the evidence, the vast majority of posts on the vog or vmc are extremely positive about Lloydz parts & service, BUT especially about Lloyd Greer's Integrity. KevinX mentioned that there was a run of bad pistons from Wiseco, That would cause problems for ANY builder/dealer that used them, and in this "sue-happy" society we live in, It would seem that Wiseco would be liaible & have to pay for the mess it created.
We all know that 100% perfection from ANY person-service-product-etc is impossible in this world (maybe possible in "bizarro-world"), But Lloydz certainly strives for that, and his customers attest to it.
 

actually I didn't see anyone in VOGville agree with the dealer? Most people said they didn't have a problem with Lloyd (including myself), I just see someone (MJW)passing on what he had heard and asking for input? Isn't that what these forums are about?
Me personnally, I am just going to order the turbo kit for my B-King and be happy...lol
 
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