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Torque compinsator washers?

18K views 157 replies 23 participants last post by  milesx 
#1 ·
I was wondering if anyone knows if they sell these washers with different load ratings? Also can these washers be purchased anywhere else other then Victory??
 
#7 ·
The Belleville washer is a spring; it's termed a disc spring. The "K" value is determined by how much force it takes to displace the spring; usually given in Lbs./In. or Nt/m . I have no idea where you could find the "K" values required for the torque compensator used in our motors. I'm just a mechanical engineer passing on a little knowledge; no experience with the torque compensator to share.
 
#9 ·
A while ago, i measured a set of Bellevilles from a vic motor the shop up the road had apart. I am a machinist so i made good measurements, OD, ID, thicknes and crown. I then started searching for those sizes. I spent quite a while and was unable to find the required sizes. Do i still remember the size? .. no. I did have a pm with another member here and maybe i told him. I will check my pm's maybe it is still there...

Edit:
The member was
robsvision

He may have some extras lying around he could measure.....
 
#12 · (Edited)
Okay spring measurement.
W 86mm
Id 44mm
Thickness .90mm
Cup 2.49mm
That is the size of the 2 update washers
Part number 7043638
I still need to measure thickness of dominate washer stack but I would assume all same measurement but thickness would be 2.5mm will.
I did find some that closely match these specs and they have different thickness also.
Disc Springs - Schnorr
 
#13 ·
I will caution everyone; Belleville washers of the same dimensions may actually have different "K" factors. For them to have the exact "K" factor as the originals, it would require them to be made of a material that has the exact same yield strength and modulus of elasticity; that's a large roll of the dice. You really need to purchase disc springs with the same "K" factor as the original and of roughly the same dimensions.
 
#15 ·
They may be one in the same; if it is expressed in lbs./in. or Nt./m, then it is the "K" factor. If it's units of measure are only lbs. or Nt., then it is quite likely a max. load capacity.
 
#20 ·
I don't think this needs to be to complicated. If TC rattles at idle springs need to be snugged up either shim or possibly tighten bolt. TC rattle at high rpm this tells me springs maxing out and are weak. So I am going to find disc springs that have a higher compression strength for my application. I also hate the slop at low rpm and I feel a tighter and stronger spring might clean that up. But until I actually hold it in my hand it is just speculation, but I am up for the challenge. If anyone has thought, ideas or what ever let's keep chatting about it.
 
#116 ·
Just read your post. I have not read many post yet...
But here is what I found
If the stack is to high or thick the T.C. will be tight when NOT under a load.
This causes the power pulses of the motor to back lash the transmission gears. Causing a sound like shacking a box of chickletts. If the stack is to small you get a loud clacking noise as the power pulse of the motor take up the slack in the T.C.
I have shimed that POS tight, loose, with 2 thick springs and 4 small ones
I have tried all thick springs, all thin springs. NOTHING works properly or I should say QUIETLY...
It is a terrible design. There has to be a better way to stop the motors VTwin power pulse from back lashing (chatting) the transmission gears.

Is there a rubber that can stand the oil and heat? Or a heavy duty spring that can be put in the T.C. like a short strong coil spring.

Most people don't listen to there motors. I can't stop trying to figure out how to make this rock crusher box of gravel quite....
 
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#25 ·
In the 2nd pic the 3.54 in disk are the ones I am looking at. Just kinda looking at numbers right now until I can get my TC in hand to investigate a fix.
Looking at that series of curves, I'm thinking the bold one represents the spring response. As you can see, it's not exactly linear (it's a curve instead of a straight line), but it's close to linear. Using an extrapolated line to represent the response, it looks like the "K" factor is roughly 14,250/1.85 or roughly 7,700 Nt./mm or kN/m.
 
#26 ·
I don't think this needs to be to complicated. If TC rattles at idle springs need to be snugged up either shim or possibly tighten bolt. TC rattle at high rpm this tells me springs maxing out and are weak. So I am going to find disc springs that have a higher compression strength for my application. I also hate the slop at low rpm and I feel a tighter and stronger spring might clean that up. But until I actually hold it in my hand it is just speculation, but I am up for the challenge. If anyone has thought, ideas or what ever let's keep chatting about it.
If it was that simple Victory would have figured it out and they clearly didn't.

My XC is a 2011. When I got it, it had the compensator "marbles in a tin can rattle" in neutral. In mid 2012 they changed the compensator spring stack to eliminate that, and actually sold a kit for it. I bought all of the new parts and replaced mine, and sure enough it got rid of the rattle. The other thing it did was make the driveline lash much worse. The tighter you make the springs, the less compensatin' the compensator does, and that "clunk" you hear going on and off the throttle at low speeds is the primary gears knocking against each other.

You would think there should be a happy medium somewhere, and apparently Kyle at KMC has found something close, as those who have had his "compensator fix" say it makes a big difference. I seem to remember some of the posts saying that the compensator rattles a little more though, a la the old spring stack.

I applaud your efforts though, and I was thinking of doing something like this myself, but it's going to take a lot of experimentation, and I hate fighting that primary cover on and off. If you get it figured out I think you could make some money selling kits.
 
#27 ·
I don't always believe manufactures do everything possible to correct issues.most of the time it's the accountants that dictate what is used. For example arctic cat snowmobile had big problems from 2012 and up and it took garage guys to fix it. One of those garage guys was me. I replaced every part that was the weak link and now my snowmachine is amazing. I feel that this TC is just a tool that takes an ads kicking and can be upgraded with thicker heavier springs to take its beating. The only issue we have is finding out victories spring chart to get a ball park figure.
 
#30 ·
As others have mentioned, be really careful selecting these washers. I would either buy them by part number, or get the specs from Polaris. (Good luck on that.) The material the Belleville washer is made of determines the K value, as much as the dimensions.
Good luck.
John.
 
#31 ·
I've gotten used to the rattle but if somebody came up with something easy & cheap....
 
#34 ·
I don't think this needs to be to complicated. If TC rattles at idle springs need to be snugged up either shim or possibly tighten bolt. TC rattle at high rpm this tells me springs maxing out and are weak. So I am going to find disc springs that have a higher compression strength for my application. I also hate the slop at low rpm and I feel a tighter and stronger spring might clean that up. But until I actually hold it in my hand it is just speculation, but I am up for the challenge. If anyone has thought, ideas or what ever let's keep chatting about it.
Interesting note here,
The rattle at idle is from a strong spring. Early models had a strong spring set in the Torque Compensator which attributed to low drive line lash. Later models were changed due to the noise at idle. So a Quiet idle will result in increased drive line lash. Ole Blue had it's Torque Compensator reworked by KMC, little more noise at idle but a much reduced drive line lash.

Just passing on what I learned from KMC.
 
#36 ·
This is of interest to me... if what your statement says is what I think it does, then it means that I need a stronger spring set up but that will mean a lot more rattling at idle, but will possibly fix the stalling or at least cut it back a bit when at low revs and changing down gears and likewise when picking up revs from low down.....

I have a feeling that really it would not lose KMC any customer use if they were to make it known or at the least patent a kit so others can acquire this simple fix.... I will buy a kit to replace mine to try it out.....
 
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