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when the dealer meetings come around i always have this conversation with my dealer.i ask him if he thinks victory will come out with a smaller bike.his answer is always the same.no,it wouldnt be cost effective.so how about some input from everyone here on whyvictory should or shouldnt consider doing this.
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Half_Crazy said:
If Yamaha doesn't stop with the 113" bagger bikes it will be their undoing, I tell ya.
FYI Yamaha's best selling cruiser is the 1300 not the 113 but they are a full line company and can afford to throw money away on the large cruiser. Did you know their best selling product is an electric bicycle 120,000 units. They are diverse.... and HD sold over 64,000 Sportsters last year. Not to shabby
 

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volusiamotorsports said:
Reading this post has made me reflect on a few recent converstaions at our Victory dealership in New Smyrna Beach FL.
A 65 year old male who started riding 2 yrs ago - riding a metric cruiser (800cc). He considered Vic to be too expensive (what if he didn't enjoy riding as much as he thought) and too powerful (he is 5ft 8 and 170Ibs and a rookie).
Two male Victory owners, whose wives both ride smaller HD's. Both can afford to buy a Vic, love the brand, but are uneasy about the power until they are more experienced riders.
I see 3 additonal Victory sales here.
I prefer to call a potential new model a "smaller" bike , not a "starter" bike, as many markets demand smaller bikes.
It's worth noting that the US motorcycle market is based on leisure use of the product, whereas the rest of the world uses motorcycles for transport first, leisure second.
A "smaller" Vic would fulfill those looking for a price point bike, something with less power, lighter or more nimble. There is volume in these categories and Vic would not need significant market share to make a real difference to their unit sales.The trick is to make iteasy for riders to make a "in-brand transistion" to a big cruiser.
I believe tha Victory will become a full-line motorcycle manufacturer, which could mean a powerplant other than V-twin. For current Vcitory owners, don't be concerned about dilution of the exclusivity of Victory - there is plenty of room on the roads for more!
"Victory offers the refinement of a metric cruiser with the charisma of an American bike".
Wouldn't it be great if more people could experience it.
Hey great first post... But where are the sub-titles?
 

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Snipped from Web-Bike World
________________________________________
Triumph has consistently gained market share in the United States every year for the past five years according to the Motorcycle Industry Council (MIC). The sustained growth makes Triumph one of the fastest growing motorcycle manufacturers in country and one of only two marques that never lost market share in that time period.
/end of snip________________________________________________________________

The 800cc cruisers America and Speedmaster are 100,000 mile motorcycles. My America is around 25K now and runs like the day it was purchased. From Texas it has been to Florida bike weeks 3x, and Grand Canyon twice, and Myrtle Beach. All without incident. I know many owners approaching or over the 100K mark. This is for $8,000 bucks!

The 1600cc Thunderbird got best cruiser awards last year and Cycle Worlds 10 best list. 2 of the last 4 years the 675 got best sport bike. $13,000 bucks for a Thunderbird and $8,500 for a 675.

They always have at least 1 on the 10 best list. I think they have the staying power. :)

I don't think they would be the fastest growing motorcycle company if they only made a few large models. Their awards are from small sport bikes, to large cruisers. Also totally different motors, R3 is inline 3 cyl, 675 Parallel triple and the 800s are Parallel twins. You have to invest in a full line to sell to the masses.

I still don't see how a smaller lighter bike would hurt anything to try? Do I really care? No, we have a choice with Harley, Triumph, or Hondayamakawasuki.

I like my Kingpin just fine so am not a potential customer of another big bike from Victory.
 

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dsjr70 said:
volusiamotorsports said:
Reading this post has made me reflect on a few recent converstaions at our Victory dealership in New Smyrna Beach FL.
A 65 year old male who started riding 2 yrs ago - riding a metric cruiser (800cc). He considered Vic to be too expensive (what if he didn't enjoy riding as much as he thought) and too powerful (he is 5ft 8 and 170Ibs and a rookie).
Two male Victory owners, whose wives both ride smaller HD's. Both can afford to buy a Vic, love the brand, but are uneasy about the power until they are more experienced riders.
I see 3 additonal Victory sales here.
I prefer to call a potential new model a "smaller" bike , not a "starter" bike, as many markets demand smaller bikes.
It's worth noting that the US motorcycle market is based on leisure use of the product, whereas the rest of the world uses motorcycles for transport first, leisure second.
A "smaller" Vic would fulfill those looking for a price point bike, something with less power, lighter or more nimble. There is volume in these categories and Vic would not need significant market share to make a real difference to their unit sales.The trick is to make iteasy for riders to make a "in-brand transistion" to a big cruiser.
I believe tha Victory will become a full-line motorcycle manufacturer, which could mean a powerplant other than V-twin. For current Vcitory owners, don't be concerned about dilution of the exclusivity of Victory - there is plenty of room on the roads for more!
"Victory offers the refinement of a metric cruiser with the charisma of an American bike".
Wouldn't it be great if more people could experience it.
Hey great first post... But where are the sub-titles?
So that those who may not be in on this "inside joke," allow me to fill you in...

As you can tell, Andy (not me, Andy of Volusia Motorsports traveled across many continents to open his first Victory Dealership in Central Florida. While it was originally an historic bicycle store, Andy had the insight and the guts to add a Victory's lineup to his growing bicycle store.

Yeah, get it out of you system..A bicycle store is now selling Vics? Just how crazy is that!

Crazy like a Fox as Andy (not me) had the insight and the knowledge of his current and potential customer and took the gamble investing the big bucks into obtaining Victory dealership. He's worked tireless hours and, if my intel is correct, he's one of the fastest growing Victory dealer in the country...a major feat in just two short years.

Oh, about the accent/subtitles post in this thread, while we were setting up the VOG's camera system, Andy told myself, DSJR70 and Shawn (who was vising) about an other interview he had granted where the producer insisted to insert subtitles so that American Viewers would be able to understand Andy's slight accent. WHAT?

In the video below, I think you'll quickly see that Andy is easily understandable and that's not to mention one great guy who's dedicated in growing the Victory Brand throughout his market area.

I will go on record with you Andy, when our weather cools down and when you have a Demo Day, with your permission, I'd like to create some new videos on the riders taking a test ride. If you're interested, you know how to find me and if it's okay with you, I'l be there. Or call DSJR70 as he can be very convincing!
 

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dsjr70 said:
phoenix9 said:
The economy, along with companies like Victory, and BMW, and Honda, and Triumph had no choice but to leave that old business model and shoot for cutting edge engineering advancements as a way to keep the lights on. Did it make previous vehicles worth less? Absolutely. But the old model of selling on resale had become an non-existant business model, and I can't blame any manufacturer for protecting their own bottom lines by making huge changes to garner FUTURE marketshare.
The only thing I would disagree with (not with you Mark) is instead of dropping the MSRP of the Pin and Vegas they should have dropped the bikes. They are both old designs ready to be moth balled. Instead of pissing off your current customer base I would have renamed the X bikes or came out with two more X bikes with real fenders and called them the new and improved Pin and Vegas. If you want to keep changing names dont name them call them a VTX or something.
Now, I see that as a stroke of genius to keep them. The overhead costs on these bikes have been paid for loooooong ago and its just a matter of assembling the bikes. It gives the Victory line an Old-school option to the new X-bikes, and keeps guys like Spider a little more supported by not dropping the line and further reducing resale price.....now, that's not to say that they won't pull the plug once all the old inventory has been sold but I personally think it is wise to keep the Kingpin and Vegas around. Why does H-D keep the Heritage around when they have the Road King?
 

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dsjr70 said:
FYI Yamaha's best selling cruiser is the 1300 not the 113 but they are a full line company and can afford to throw money away on the large cruiser. Did you know their best selling product is an electric bicycle 120,000 units. They are diverse.... and HD sold over 64,000 Sportsters last year. Not to shabby
FYI: Polaris is a 1.8 billion dollar a year company WITHOUT Victory.
When those Sportsters come back (they will and soon) HD is paying full MSRP on trade-in too. Hard to make money like that. For a company with such huge sales, they were in some dire finacial situations recently, mostly because they would finance anyone with a pulse. I have seen 300 used Harleys for sale in one place, mostly repos. It ain't all bubble bath and roses at HD either.
Their resale value is in the toilet too. They keep making improvements that make theirprevious models obsolete..... Sound familiar?
 

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Half_Crazy said:
FYI: Polaris is a 1.8 billion dollar a year company WITHOUT Victory.
When those Sportsters come back (they will and soon) HD is paying full MSRP on trade-in too. Hard to make money like that.
I know 1.8 billion seems like allot but it really isn't, it puts Polaris in the small to almost medium size manufacturing company's.
That Sportster gimmic was the smartest thing Harley did. If you read the fine print they will give you back what you paid (minus fees, taxes, frieght, setup...blah blah) but you must by the larger bike at full retail. Who pays MSRP for a Harley today? So they gave away a Sportster with very little profit to get you to trade into a larger machine with a high profit margin. As Bubba would say, very smart company!
 

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phoenix9 said:
Now, I see that as a stroke of genius to keep them. The overhead costs on these bikes have been paid for loooooong ago and its just a matter of assembling the bikes. It gives the Victory line an Old-school option to the new X-bikes, and keeps guys like Spider a little more supported by not dropping the line and further reducing resale price.....now, that's not to say that they won't pull the plug once all the old inventory has been sold but I personally think it is wise to keep the Kingpin and Vegas around. Why does H-D keep the Heritage around when they have the Road King?
Not sure I agree or not... My thinking on this is if they would have progressed the line (much like a C3 to a C4 Corvette) it would not have hurt resale that much and may have just bumped it. In this day and age when people shop they look at resale value the drop in the MSRP on a bike that has been improved hurts all previous models tremendously. But the biggest reason I would drop them (as a manufacturer) is they cost more to build then the X-Bikes and I have to charge less for them. Okay, the biggest reason I would have dropped them is that they still have 07's sitting on the showroom floors.
As so many on here like to say, Victory is not Harley. It was Victory's progressive thinking that got them where they are today but they are in a market share that has stalled and they need to do something to help their dealers move bikes. With the new changes and the extended service intervals they just took away half of my dealers business, what are they going to replace it with?
 

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I am wondering why we think the x-bike should cost more, or a cruiser cost less. A raked out well painted, chromed cruiser exposes all sides and angles. Nothing is hidden and nearly nothing is plastic. Fit and finish are exposed and must be outstanding. Who says you can't sell a cruiser for more than a bagger?

A person looking at a Jackpot is walking right past the Vision with 0 interest in it.

We seem to talk sometime like every Victory is good so why change. Well, lets be honest. If you gave me a Vision I would sell it, you could never sell me one. Mechanically nice bike but not my cup of tea. On the other hand my KP is weird with funny looking fenders that many would not put in their garage. Who are we to say what others would buy. My choice was the Kingpin or a VTX. The KP was cooler.

A person looking for a 500lb cruiser is driving right past the Vic dealer or walking past them in the mega store buying a Honda Shadow. Its a missed sale for Victory.

A couple hundred thousand small cruisers a year are sold. Vic could get 2% maybe over a few years. That is 4,000 bikes nearly the total sales so far this year.
 

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satxron said:
I am wondering why we think the x-bike should cost more, or a cruiser cost less. A raked out well painted, chromed cruiser exposes all sides and angles. Nothing is hidden and nearly nothing is plastic. Fit and finish are exposed and must be outstanding. Who says you can't sell a cruiser for more than a bagger?

A person looking at a Jackpot is walking right past the Vision with 0 interest in it.

We seem to talk sometime like every Victory is good so why change. Well, lets be honest. If you gave me a Vision I would sell it, you could never sell me one. Mechanically nice bike but not my cup of tea. On the other hand my KP is weird with funny looking fenders that many would not put in their garage. Who are we to say what others would buy. My choice was the Kingpin or a VTX. The KP was cooler.

A person looking for a 500lb cruiser is driving right past the Vic dealer or walking past them in the mega store buying a Honda Shadow. Its a missed sale for Victory.

A couple hundred thousand small cruisers a year are sold. Vic could get 2% maybe over a few years. That is 4,000 bikes nearly the total sales so far this year.
Interesting, I never looked at it that way... The only problem I see with that is that Victory doesnt sell enough bikes to carry that many in the same price point. Most of the Vic customers I have met come from the Metric side and they really dont care as much about what type of frame the bike has.
 

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I think the group will always be split on this topic. Why get them off of a metric bike? Why not get them first? There are still a lot of folks that walk into HD and stroke a check for the Sportster. I think Vic could sell a smaller lighter bike easily.

With their new and improved scaled production they can't overbuild them. If it worked it would give the Vic dealers a few more sales a year that also turns into a few more shirts, coats, and chrome do-dads too along with service.

The advertising side is the more you have on the road the more you sell.

If all they sell are big bikes they will continue to grow slowly but never be a market contender. IMHO well, take out the humble part :)
 

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satxron said:
I think the group will always be split on this topic. Why get them off of a metric bike? Why not get them first? There are still a lot of folks that walk into HD and stroke a check for the Sportster. I think Vic could sell a smaller lighter bike easily.

With their new and improved scaled production they can't overbuild them. If it worked it would give the Vic dealers a few more sales a year that also turns into a few more shirts, coats, and chrome do-dads too along with service.

The advertising side is the more you have on the road the more you sell.

If all they sell are big bikes they will continue to grow slowly but never be a market contender. IMHO well, take out the humble part :)
Couldn't agree with you more... You just say it better then me :)
 
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