[mjw930]

Remember, if Victory can sell 2000 entry level bikes next year that's 2000 people who may have never considered owning a Victory that now probably aspire to a Vegas, Hammer, X-Bike or Vision. Do that every year and in 5 years you have doubled the potential customer pool AND sold motorcycles.

Hell, I think Victory needs to find a way to sell 10000 of these bikes a year even if the sales of existing bikes stay flat. Build and sell them at cost giving the dealership a flat $500 for each sale in the form of a holdback or credit and within 5 years the turn around would be amazing. Brand loyalty is just about the strongest marketing incentive out there.

Harley understands that, look at their marketing plan, buy a new Sportster and trade it in within 12 months and get 100% of your purchase price in trade on a larger bike! Porsche literally was saved by the introduction of the Boxster. They went down market, grabbed thousands of customers that never would have considered buying a new Porsche (they couldn't afford one) and grew the customer base to become the most profitable private car maker in the world (until Dr. W screwed that trying to buy VW).

I'm just saying, what a current Victory owner thinks is irrelevant to this discussion, it's what a NON Victory owner thinks that matters.

 

[SofaKingBlue]

Vic should stay with their niche market - heavy weight cruisers. Let the beginners ride the others.
Vic sells all they can produce. I don't see a glut of X-bikes at the dealers. From what I understand most dealers want more x-bikes.
There are plenty of used Vic's for under $10K so cost isn't an issue.
Why water-down the brand with beginner's bike? When you learn to ride, sell your skirtster and buy a Vic.

 

[spider]

Remember, if Victory can sell 2000 entry level bikes next year that's 2000 people who may have never considered owning a Victory that now probably aspire to a Vegas, Hammer, X-Bike or Vision. Do that every year and in 5 years you have doubled the potential customer pool AND sold motorcycles.

Hell, I think Victory needs to find a way to sell 10000 of these bikes a year even if the sales of existing bikes stay flat. Build and sell them at cost giving the dealership a flat $500 for each sale in the form of a holdback or credit and within 5 years the turn around would be amazing. Brand loyalty is just about the strongest marketing incentive out there.

Harley understands that, look at their marketing plan, buy a new Sportster and trade it in within 12 months and get 100% of your purchase price in trade on a larger bike! Porsche literally was saved by the introduction of the Boxster. They went down market, grabbed thousands of customers that never would have considered buying a new Porsche (they couldn't afford one) and grew the customer base to become the most profitable private car maker in the world (until Dr. W screwed that trying to buy VW).

I'm just saying, what a current Victory owner thinks is irrelevant to this discussion, it's what a NON Victory owner thinks that matters.

So basically everything you just said means nothing.

 

[spider]

Vic should stay with their niche market - heavy weight cruisers. Let the beginners ride the others.
Vic sells all they can produce. I don't see a glut of X-bikes at the dealers. From what I understand most dealers want more x-bikes.
There are plenty of used Vic's for under $10K so cost isn't an issue.
Why water-down the brand with beginner's bike? When you learn to ride, sell your skirtster and buy a Vic.

+1

 

[spider]

Well I will concede to Half Crazies comment that Victory Riders/Owners do not want a starter bike. But the fact is except for a couple of people all Victory Riders/Owners are experienced riders so why would they want an entry bike. However it is a fact that an entry bike breeds brand loyalty. They may sell us one or two bikes but if they get an 18 year old kid on a bike they may sell him 8 or 9 bikes in his lifetime.
The facts are there that Victory is serious about the entry level bikes and if the economy didnt tank there probably would be a Vision 800 out there. The Sportster may be a peice of crap (I have no clue) but I know allot of HD guys that started on a Sportster because that was what they could afford at the time. Seat height is not what makes a starter bike, weight is the biggest factor and the Sportster, C/M-50 and all the other sub 1000 cc bikes out there are light and get your confidence up quickly.
In all my time on here I have only seen (maybe) two post that someone was looking at a Victory for there first bike. Does it happen? Sure, but not as offen as the dealers would like.

A lot of people bought a Sportster because they thought they would automatically be part of the " Brotherhood ", they knew there were better bikes out there for less money, they were afraid of being called a wannabe, riding some jap crap ( don't bother jumpin here,i've owned enough jap crap over the years to make that statement ).
Harley sells a " Way of life "to a lot of people, I was one of them, many years ago.
I will still buy American made motorcycles, if I can't get a Vic i'll buy another HD.
Entry level Vics may sell but I would'nt bet the farm i'd get rich off the sales.
And as far as a " scoot to the store " kinda bike, i've already got one, my Kingpin.

 

[Chas_K]

Vic sells all they can produce.

Yes they do, I bought my 06 Vegas, new, in March 09 the dealer had several more right next to it.

 

[Rollin]

A lot of people bought a Sportster because they thought they would automatically be part of the " Brotherhood ", they knew there were better bikes out there for less money, they were afraid of being called a wannabe, riding some jap crap ( don't bother jumpin here,i've owned enough jap crap over the years to make that statement ).
Harley sells a " Way of life "to a lot of people, I was one of them, many years ago.
I will still buy American made motorcycles, if I can't get a Vic i'll buy another HD.
Entry level Vics may sell but I would'nt bet the farm i'd get rich off the sales.
And as far as a " scoot to the store " kinda bike, i've already got one, my Kingpin.
[/quote]
I bought a new Sportster in 1994. I bought it because it was was the lightest and fastest of of the Harleys at the time.
I had the bike a year and had a bad accident with it. I rebuiltit starting with a new frame and engine cases.
It's still one of my favorite bikes. I had a lot fun with this bike.

 

[dsjr70]

Well I will concede to Half Crazies comment that Victory Riders/Owners do not want a starter bike. But the fact is except for a couple of people all Victory Riders/Owners are experienced riders so why would they want an entry bike. However it is a fact that an entry bike breeds brand loyalty. They may sell us one or two bikes but if they get an 18 year old kid on a bike they may sell him 8 or 9 bikes in his lifetime.
The facts are there that Victory is serious about the entry level bikes and if the economy didnt tank there probably would be a Vision 800 out there. The Sportster may be a peice of crap (I have no clue) but I know allot of HD guys that started on a Sportster because that was what they could afford at the time. Seat height is not what makes a starter bike, weight is the biggest factor and the Sportster, C/M-50 and all the other sub 1000 cc bikes out there are light and get your confidence up quickly.
In all my time on here I have only seen (maybe) two post that someone was looking at a Victory for there first bike. Does it happen? Sure, but not as offen as the dealers would like.

A lot of people bought a Sportster because they thought they would automatically be part of the " Brotherhood ", they knew there were better bikes out there for less money, they were afraid of being called a wannabe, riding some jap crap ( don't bother jumpin here,i've owned enough jap crap over the years to make that statement ).
Harley sells a " Way of life "to a lot of people, I was one of them, many years ago.
I will still buy American made motorcycles, if I can't get a Vic i'll buy another HD.
Entry level Vics may sell but I would'nt bet the farm i'd get rich off the sales.
And as far as a " scoot to the store " kinda bike, i've already got one, my Kingpin.

Spider,
Did you mean to quote someone else? If not I lost your point....

 

[dsjr70]

Who do we see ride the sportsters first time riders and buyers not the experienced ones. When it comes to upgrading they will typically buy the same brand fact.

Harley would have to explain to me what makes the 883 Sportster a good 'starter bike'. Yes, they offer a lower version... with a lot less ground clearance and hardly any suspension travel... exactly what every newbee desires, right? There are a lot of bikes better for a beginner. A person who compared models/brands with an open mind wouldn't choose the 883 in the first place.
The only market for these things are folks who must have a Harley, so they are brand loyal BEFORE they ever buy the bike. Of course they will later upgrade to another Harley.

Weight makes it a good starter bike... 565lbs +-
When I decided to buy my first cruiser after years with sportbikes I went with the brand I knew and more importantly the dealer I trusted. I am not an oddball (well maybe a little) but I am the norm when it comes to bike owners.

 

[dsjr70]

Vic sells all they can produce. I don't see a glut of X-bikes at the dealers. From what I understand most dealers want more x-bikes.
There are plenty of used Vic's for under $10K so cost isn't an issue.

My dealer still has the very first XR he recieved sitting on his showroom floor. I would bet without heavy incentictives it will be sitting there next year.
As far as a used bike being under 10k. Two problems with that... 1. An 18-20 year old probably cant get financing on a used bike but can on a new under 10k vehicle. 2. Even if it is 5000 it still is not a starter bike...

 

[dsjr70]

Vic should stay with their niche market - heavy weight cruisers. Let the beginners ride the others.
Vic sells all they can produce. I don't see a glut of X-bikes at the dealers. From what I understand most dealers want more x-bikes.
There are plenty of used Vic's for under $10K so cost isn't an issue.
Why water-down the brand with beginner's bike? When you learn to ride, sell your skirtster and buy a Vic.

+1

Unfortunetely it is sell your skirtster and buy a Dyna or Fatboy...

 

[dsjr70]

Here is a perfect example, I was just in another tread and seen the tagline for Hawkineer....
2010 Victory Cross Roads p>
Do you not see brand loyalty here?

 

[SofaKingBlue]

Personally, I don't want to see a lot of Vix sold. I don't want to be in the herd of sheep.

Frank Zappa said it best: "strictly from commercial". Vic should avoid being another mass producing commercial product. They fit nicely between HD and Big Dog.

You want cheap aftermarket "stuff" buy something else. You want to spend time at the dealer buy something else. You want bling, buy something else. If you like bugs in your teeth, reliability and just like to ride, consider a Vic.

 

[dsjr70]

Although I would not want to see them build 100,000 bikes in a year I would like them to build enough for Polaris to justify keeping the doors open. I cant remember the last motorcycle company to open and stay open.

 

[mjw930]

Vic sells all they can produce.

You mean that facetiously, right?

I think you meant to say, they build all they can sell then a few thoudand more just so they can discount them $5000 3 model years later when they are collecting dust on a dealership's showroom.

 

[SofaKingBlue]

From what I understand, the dealers have their inventory under control. My local dealer has run out of x-bikes. They have one JP and one Hammerand two V's. The rest are used.
Please provide links to new Vix discounted $5,000.

 

[mjw930]

Remember, if Victory can sell 2000 entry level bikes next year that's 2000 people who may have never considered owning a Victory that now probably aspire to a Vegas, Hammer, X-Bike or Vision. Do that every year and in 5 years you have doubled the potential customer pool AND sold motorcycles.

Hell, I think Victory needs to find a way to sell 10000 of these bikes a year even if the sales of existing bikes stay flat. Build and sell them at cost giving the dealership a flat $500 for each sale in the form of a holdback or credit and within 5 years the turn around would be amazing. Brand loyalty is just about the strongest marketing incentive out there.

Harley understands that, look at their marketing plan, buy a new Sportster and trade it in within 12 months and get 100% of your purchase price in trade on a larger bike! Porsche literally was saved by the introduction of the Boxster. They went down market, grabbed thousands of customers that never would have considered buying a new Porsche (they couldn't afford one) and grew the customer base to become the most profitable private car maker in the world (until Dr. W screwed that trying to buy VW).

I'm just saying, what a current Victory owner thinks is irrelevant to this discussion, it's what a NON Victory owner thinks that matters.

So basically everything you just said means nothing.

Yes and no. If it weren't for the Cross Country I wouldn't own a Victory. I've only owned one since December.

I'm just one of the customers Victory needs to win over. I'm part of the group with a decent amount of disposable income, many years of riding experience and open minded enough to buy a bike for it's performance, not for it's mystique.

The other customer they need to win over is the person looking for a solid, good looking, powerful cruiser made in America that's every bit as good as it's foreign competition but priced under $10000 with less than 1000cc's. Many of you may not know it but insurance for a younger male on ANY bike with more than 1000cc's can be the deal breaker when they are looking for a motorcycle. It's no mystery why there's an 883 Sportster. It exists only to position it within an insurance bracket that can be half as much per year as a 1200 for a 20 something male with a few points on their license.

 

[mjw930]

From what I understand, the dealers have their inventory under control. My local dealer has run out of x-bikes. They have one JP and one Hammerand two V's. The rest are used.
Please provide links to new Vix discounted $5,000.

http://www.polarisindustries.com/en-us/Victory-Motorcycles/Pages/Current-Offers.aspx

2009 Vegas, Was $16,299 Now $11,499
2009 Kingpin, Was $16,399 Now $11,999

Maybe not exactly $5K but pretty damn close.

 

[mjw930]

Although I would not want to see them build 100,000 bikes in a year I would like them to build enough for Polaris to justify keeping the doors open. I cant remember the last motorcycle company to open and stay open.

+1

 

[spider]

Spider,
Did you mean to quote someone else? If not I lost your point....
[/quote]
"The Sportster may be a peice of crap (I have no clue) but I know allot of HD guys that started on a Sportster because that was what they could afford at the time."
My point was they could afford a much better bike than a Sportster for the money they spent, so if cash was not really an issue, why would they buy a Sportster in the first place ? Performance ? Reliability ? Cool factor ?
Ya I kinda went off track a little, I do that once in a while.
I, in" my " opinion, do not believe we, sorry, Victory needs a little bike, they need to stay where they are, leading edge, V-Twin power cruiser.
When my old lady wants to get her licence, i'll help her get a small, reliable bike, cheap, then she can get a bigger bike when she learns how to ride.
She may not want a Vic, who knows, buti'm sure she won't be on a Sportster.