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smaller victory

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when the dealer meetings come around i always have this conversation with my dealer.i ask him if he thinks victory will come out with a smaller bike.his answer is always the same.no,it wouldnt be cost effective.so how about some input from everyone here on whyvictory should or shouldnt consider doing this.
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Unlike my usual comments I will disagree with the norm. Vic sees a need for an entry level bike and dealers like Randy's and Volusia see a need. These are single brand dealers not like Ride Now and some of the mega dealers that have an entry. Just food for thought, if Vic did not want an entry level cruiser under 1000cc why would they have tried to team up with KTM on the Vision 800? or more currently Swiss Auto?
 

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Well I will concede to Half Crazies comment that Victory Riders/Owners do not want a starter bike. But the fact is except for a couple of people all Victory Riders/Owners are experienced riders so why would they want an entry bike. However it is a fact that an entry bike breeds brand loyalty. They may sell us one or two bikes but if they get an 18 year old kid on a bike they may sell him 8 or 9 bikes in his lifetime.
The facts are there that Victory is serious about the entry level bikes and if the economy didnt tank there probably would be a Vision 800 out there. The Sportster may be a peice of crap (I have no clue) but I know allot of HD guys that started on a Sportster because that was what they could afford at the time. Seat height is not what makes a starter bike, weight is the biggest factor and the Sportster, C/M-50 and all the other sub 1000 cc bikes out there are light and get your confidence up quickly.
In all my time on here I have only seen (maybe) two post that someone was looking at a Victory for there first bike. Does it happen? Sure, but not as offen as the dealers would like.
 

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advntrus said:
satxron said:
Half_Crazy said:
Victory owners/riders don't want or need a 'starter bike'. Victory is a bike you upgrade to after you outgrow that starter bike. A machine people aspire to own.
Wow! nobody could say it better than that.

What a great idea for a commercialhuh. Some older teens hanging out and a Vegas lumbers by. They look up in admiration and one of the young ones points and says "One day I will have one of them".
+1
Or maybe if they wanted to make up for there short comings inOTHER departments, they could even buy THREE VEGAS'S!!!
Shawn
or four but who is counting!
 

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bored76 said:
dsjr70 said:
advntrus said:
satxron said:
Half_Crazy said:
Victory owners/riders don't want or need a 'starter bike'. Victory is a bike you upgrade to after you outgrow that starter bike. A machine people aspire to own.
Wow! nobody could say it better than that.

What a great idea for a commercialhuh. Some older teens hanging out and a Vegas lumbers by. They look up in admiration and one of the young ones points and says "One day I will have one of them".
+1
Or maybe if they wanted to make up for there short comings inOTHER departments, they could even buy THREE VEGAS'S!!!
Shawn
or four but who is counting!
How about an 1100cor1300cc vegas?
I think a smaller Vic would be great as a second bike to zip back and forth to work.
I agree a smaller Vegas could be the answer, but it would need to be smaller then 1100. There would not be that much of a weight difference between the 1100 and the 1500. It could however fill the gap between the starter bike and the mid range cruiser. My Honda has more then enough power for me to cruise around town.
 

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spider said:
dsjr70 said:
Well I will concede to Half Crazies comment that Victory Riders/Owners do not want a starter bike. But the fact is except for a couple of people all Victory Riders/Owners are experienced riders so why would they want an entry bike. However it is a fact that an entry bike breeds brand loyalty. They may sell us one or two bikes but if they get an 18 year old kid on a bike they may sell him 8 or 9 bikes in his lifetime.
The facts are there that Victory is serious about the entry level bikes and if the economy didnt tank there probably would be a Vision 800 out there. The Sportster may be a peice of crap (I have no clue) but I know allot of HD guys that started on a Sportster because that was what they could afford at the time. Seat height is not what makes a starter bike, weight is the biggest factor and the Sportster, C/M-50 and all the other sub 1000 cc bikes out there are light and get your confidence up quickly.
In all my time on here I have only seen (maybe) two post that someone was looking at a Victory for there first bike. Does it happen? Sure, but not as offen as the dealers would like.
A lot of people bought a Sportster because they thought they would automatically be part of the " Brotherhood ", they knew there were better bikes out there for less money, they were afraid of being called a wannabe, riding some jap crap ( don't bother jumpin here,i've owned enough jap crap over the years to make that statement ).
Harley sells a " Way of life "to a lot of people, I was one of them, many years ago.
I will still buy American made motorcycles, if I can't get a Vic i'll buy another HD.
Entry level Vics may sell but I would'nt bet the farm i'd get rich off the sales.
And as far as a " scoot to the store " kinda bike, i've already got one, my Kingpin.
Spider,
Did you mean to quote someone else? If not I lost your point....
 

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Half_Crazy said:
SuperCC said:
Who do we see ride the sportsters first time riders and buyers not the experienced ones. When it comes to upgrading they will typically buy the same brand fact.
Harley would have to explain to me what makes the 883 Sportster a good 'starter bike'. Yes, they offer a lower version... with a lot less ground clearance and hardly any suspension travel... exactly what every newbee desires, right? There are a lot of bikes better for a beginner. A person who compared models/brands with an open mind wouldn't choose the 883 in the first place.
The only market for these things are folks who must have a Harley, so they are brand loyal BEFORE they ever buy the bike. Of course they will later upgrade to another Harley.
Weight makes it a good starter bike... 565lbs +-
When I decided to buy my first cruiser after years with sportbikes I went with the brand I knew and more importantly the dealer I trusted. I am not an oddball (well maybe a little) but I am the norm when it comes to bike owners.
 

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SofaKingBlue said:
Vic sells all they can produce. I don't see a glut of X-bikes at the dealers. From what I understand most dealers want more x-bikes.
There are plenty of used Vic's for under $10K so cost isn't an issue.
My dealer still has the very first XR he recieved sitting on his showroom floor. I would bet without heavy incentictives it will be sitting there next year.
As far as a used bike being under 10k. Two problems with that... 1. An 18-20 year old probably cant get financing on a used bike but can on a new under 10k vehicle. 2. Even if it is 5000 it still is not a starter bike...
 

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spider said:
SofaKingBlue said:
Vic should stay with their niche market - heavy weight cruisers. Let the beginners ride the others.
Vic sells all they can produce. I don't see a glut of X-bikes at the dealers. From what I understand most dealers want more x-bikes.

There are plenty of used Vic's for under $10K so cost isn't an issue.
Why water-down the brand with beginner's bike? When you learn to ride, sell your skirtster and buy a Vic.
+1
Unfortunetely it is sell your skirtster and buy a Dyna or Fatboy...
 

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Although I would not want to see them build 100,000 bikes in a year I would like them to build enough for Polaris to justify keeping the doors open. I cant remember the last motorcycle company to open and stay open.
 

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spider said:
Spider,
Did you mean to quote someone else? If not I lost your point....
"The Sportster may be a peice of crap (I have no clue) but I know allot of HD guys that started on a Sportster because that was what they could afford at the time."
My point was they could afford a much better bike than a Sportster for the money they spent, so if cash was not really an issue, why would they buy a Sportster in the first place ? Performance ? Reliability ? Cool factor ?
Ya I kinda went off track a little, I do that once in a while.
I, in" my " opinion, do not believe we, sorry, Victory needs a little bike, they need to stay where they are, leading edge, V-Twin power cruiser.
When my old lady wants to get her licence, i'll help her get a small, reliable bike, cheap, then she can get a bigger bike when she learns how to ride.
She may not want a Vic, who knows, buti'm sure she won't be on a Sportster.
[/quote]
Yeah but if they start on a Suzuki cruiser where are they going to get all the cool clothing? lol
My point is these guys wanted a Fatboy, Dyna or some other HD. They didnt want a metric even though the metrics are better then the Sportster but the Sportster is what they could afford. Also, you have to keep in mind that most people finance their bikes. It was difficult to finance a used HD through first tier companies 5 years ago, now it is near impossible. I went through this the other day on my 8-Ball, the gentleman had $7,000 to put down and still could not get financed for the remaining $3500.
 

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spider said:
dsjr70 said:
Here is a perfect example, I was just in another tread and seen the tagline for Hawkineer....
2010 Victory Cross Roads p>
Do you not see brand loyalty here?
Not sure about the brand loyalty but I do see a pattern, inline 4, V-twin, inline 4, V-twin, V-twin, wanted to buy a Harley ( hence all the V-twins ) found Victory, the rest is history.
Spider you crack me up... Only you would pass over the fact that his first 5 bikes were Honda's and progressively larger...lol
 

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Half_Crazy said:
2 things....
If victory can make/sell a bike for under 10K why does it have to be under 1000 cc?
Victory is not relying on just Victory to stay in business. Polaris is a 1.8 billion dollar a year company without Victory.
It doesnt have to be under any cc, it is mostly a weight factor for the new rider.
1.8 Billion sounds like allot but a few years back I sold my company to a 2 billion dollar company. They have since went belly up. Point being 1.8 billion is not much when you are talking about manufacturers. Also, Polaris answers to it's shareholders not to us and if the numbers arent there.... Well we seen what happened to the watercrafts...
 

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Half_Crazy said:
Rollin said:
Ibought a new Sportster in 1994. I bought it because it wasthe lightest and fastest ofthe Harleys at the time.
Thank you, you made my point perfectly.
"it was the lightest and fastest of the HARLEYS at the time".
Granted, but I'll bet you wouldn't have had to look hard to find a lighter, faster, smoother, and cheaperbike from Japan (Nighthawk comes to mind).You were looking for a Harley to start with... and probably on a budget... the Harleythat was withinbudget just happened to be light and quick (for a Harley).
I'm not sure if it was a budget issue with Rollin, but you have also made my point. If it was a budget issue atleast HD had something to offer him. Also, if Rollins says it is one of his favorite bikes how bad can they be?
 

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mjw930 said:
I certainly never doubted your honesty of sincerity. FYI, the "no luck" statement might not hold water. I'm pretty sure Victory would be quite happy to have Honda or Yamaha's global V-Twin sales figures.
For that matter Suzuki and Kawasaki would be happy too...lol
 

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Half_Crazy said:
dsjr70 said:
Point being 1.8 billion is not much when you are talking about manufacturers. Also, Polaris answers to it's shareholders not to us and if the numbers arent there.... Well we seen what happened to the watercrafts...
Since Victory sales are 80+% better than the first quarter of 2009, I doubt the company will sh!t-can Victory just yet...
They are up and that is good, but that was also the worse quarter in the companies history.
We are just a line item on a spreadsheet to Polaris and to our dealers. Both need to move units to make it viable to stay in business.
To us it is all about emotion to them it is about business and I will go back to my first statement. The facts are there, Victory will have a smaller entry level bike they have shown their interest with the Vision 800 and there has to be a reason they purchased the power sport division of Swiss Auto. Swiss Auto manufactures one of the best 250cc water-cooled motors out there and has no history with large displacement V-Twins.
 

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Half_Crazy said:
mjw930 said:
And THAT is what it all boils down to.There are thousands of riders who WANT to buy American and buy new but don't have the disposable income to buy a big Harley or any Victory. Today their choice is a Sportster or a Japanese clone.
or a used big twin or a leftover 2009 NEW Vic for 11K....
If I could be on a Vegas/Kingpin for slightly more than a Sportster or a Japanese 1300? NO BRAINER! And the Victory seat is lower than either... and the Victory is lighter off the sidestand too.In today's economy people need to shop smarter and buy a bike they won't outgrow in8 months.
Thats still 4k more then a Sportster if you paid retail for the HD.
 

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Half_Crazy said:
dsjr70 said:
Half_Crazy said:
mjw930 said:
And THAT is what it all boils down to.There are thousands of riders who WANT to buy American and buy new but don't have the disposable income to buy a big Harley or any Victory. Today their choice is a Sportster or a Japanese clone.
or a used big twin or a leftover 2009 NEW Vic for 11K....
If I could be on a Vegas/Kingpin for slightly more than a Sportster or a Japanese 1300? NO BRAINER! And the Victory seat is lower than either... and the Victory is lighter off the sidestand too.In today's economy people need to shop smarter and buy a bike they won't outgrow in8 months.
Thats still 4k more then a Sportster if you paid retail for the HD.
1200 Sportster... $10K...
2007 Kingpin, 4000 miles, under 9K
http://www.cycletrader.com/find/listing/2007-VICTORY-KINGPIN-96896046
Found that within 30 seconds....
Under 1000cc for a starter bike... Sportster $6999 msrp and who pays msrp?
 

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spider said:
dsjr70 said:
Half_Crazy said:
dsjr70 said:
Half_Crazy said:
mjw930 said:
And THAT is what it all boils down to.There are thousands of riders who WANT to buy American and buy new but don't have the disposable income to buy a big Harley or any Victory. Today their choice is a Sportster or a Japanese clone.
or a used big twin or a leftover 2009 NEW Vic for 11K....
If I could be on a Vegas/Kingpin for slightly more than a Sportster or a Japanese 1300? NO BRAINER! And the Victory seat is lower than either... and the Victory is lighter off the sidestand too.In today's economy people need to shop smarter and buy a bike they won't outgrow in8 months.
Thats still 4k more then a Sportster if you paid retail for the HD.
1200 Sportster... $10K...
2007 Kingpin, 4000 miles, under 9K
http://www.cycletrader.com/find/listing/2007-VICTORY-KINGPIN-96896046
Found that within 30 seconds....
Under 1000cc for a starter bike... Sportster $6999 msrp and who pays msrp?
883 Sportster, not a 1200, and yes I saw the under 1000cc part.
Still not worth $7000.00, go buy a good inline 4.
Oh, I absolutely agree with your Spider, just using the HD as an example since it was brought up.
 
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