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Victory owners/riders don't want or need a 'starter bike'. Victory is a bike you upgrade to after you outgrow that starter bike. A machine people aspire to own. Leave the 900-1300 cc girly bikes to the Japanese big four.
You could always get a Sportster.... Not only will the big twin Harley riders look down at you, but the guys on Japanese cruisers can get a laugh at your expense as well. They should make Sportsters smell bad so that blind people can hate 'em too.
 

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SuperCC said:
HD understands once someone gets a brand they tend to repeat buy.
Have you ridden a Sportster 883? After that experience a person could be put off Harleys for life... The last time I rode one I climbed off thinking "I wouldn't walk across the street to piss on that thing if it was ON FIRE". Proof positive that if Harley chromed a turd, some idiot would pay top dollar for it.
The 883 has a 28" seat height. EVERY Victory model has a lower seat than that by 3 inches. What makes thisgood starter bike again? I must havemissed it...
 

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SuperCC said:
Who do we see ride the sportsters first time riders and buyers not the experienced ones. When it comes to upgrading they will typically buy the same brand fact.
Harley would have to explain to me what makes the 883 Sportster a good 'starter bike'. Yes, they offer a lower version... with a lot less ground clearance and hardly any suspension travel... exactly what every newbee desires, right? There are a lot of bikes better for a beginner. A person who compared models/brands with an open mind wouldn't choose the 883 in the first place.
The only market for these things are folks who must have a Harley, so they are brand loyal BEFORE they ever buy the bike. Of course they will later upgrade to another Harley.
 

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bikeriderga said:
Harley folks (unless they are biker babes), laugh at people who ride a "Sporty". You might as well ride a "rice burner" as far as the Harley riders are concerned.
I'm going to hell....
The other night my friend and I were riding on a multi-lane road, he on his Street Glide and me on my Kingpin. We came up on another bike, it was a Sportster. The guy is wearing his leather chaps and vest (it's almost 100 degrees). When he sees us, he starts with the engine reving/gassing it and letting off. We get next to him and he gives us his best 'tough biker scowl'....
I couldn't help it, it just tickled me, so I bust outlaughing. He's looking right at me and themore I chuckled the more tickled I got... I'm tellin' ya, that was funny, I don't care who ya are. Oh yeah, dude, you are a stonebadass! I'm kinda scared!
 

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2 things....
If victory can make/sell a bike for under 10K why does it have to be under 1000 cc?
Victory is not relying on just Victory to stay in business. Polaris is a 1.8 billion dollar a year company without Victory.
 

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Rollin said:
Ibought a new Sportster in 1994. I bought it because it wasthe lightest and fastest ofthe Harleys at the time.
Thank you, you made my point perfectly.
"it was the lightest and fastest of the HARLEYS at the time".
Granted, but I'll bet you wouldn't have had to look hard to find a lighter, faster, smoother, and cheaperbike from Japan (Nighthawk comes to mind).You were looking for a Harley to start with... and probably on a budget... the Harleythat was withinbudget just happened to be light and quick (for a Harley).
 

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dsjr70 said:
Point being 1.8 billion is not much when you are talking about manufacturers. Also, Polaris answers to it's shareholders not to us and if the numbers arent there.... Well we seen what happened to the watercrafts...
Since Victory sales are 80+% better than the first quarter of 2009, I doubt the company will sh*t-can Victory just yet...
 

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mjw930 said:
And THAT is what it all boils down to.There are thousands of riders who WANT to buy American and buy new but don't have the disposable income to buy a big Harley or any Victory. Today their choice is a Sportster or a Japanese clone.
or a used big twin or a leftover 2009 NEW Vic for 11K....
If I could be on a Vegas/Kingpin for slightly more than a Sportster or a Japanese 1300? NO BRAINER! And the Victory seat is lower than either... and the Victory is lighter off the sidestand too.In today's economy people need to shop smarter and buy a bike they won't outgrow in8 months.
 

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dsjr70 said:
Half_Crazy said:
mjw930 said:
And THAT is what it all boils down to.There are thousands of riders who WANT to buy American and buy new but don't have the disposable income to buy a big Harley or any Victory. Today their choice is a Sportster or a Japanese clone.
or a used big twin or a leftover 2009 NEW Vic for 11K....
If I could be on a Vegas/Kingpin for slightly more than a Sportster or a Japanese 1300? NO BRAINER! And the Victory seat is lower than either... and the Victory is lighter off the sidestand too.In today's economy people need to shop smarter and buy a bike they won't outgrow in8 months.
Thats still 4k more then a Sportster if you paid retail for the HD.
1200 Sportster... $10K...
2007 Kingpin, 4000 miles, under 9K
http://www.cycletrader.com/find/listing/2007-VICTORY-KINGPIN-96896046
Found that within 30 seconds....
 

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Not to be argumentative... just making conversation...
The way I see it, the 883 and the 1200 Sportster arethe same size bike... why not at least get the 1200?
Is a bike like a Vegas or Kingpin so much harder to handle than a 1200 Sportster? Seriously, the rider would get used to it in a week. The Vics have a lower CG and lower seat so why would they be harder to handle for the inexperienced?
Once you learn to ride, it doesn't matter if it's a 250cc Rebel or a Goldwing... if you can touch the ground flat footed you should be able to ride it perfectly well. Once the bike is upright it has no weight, and once the bike ismoving it has no weight.
 

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dsjr70 said:
Unfortunetely if I had a son he would probably not want a cruiser and I would end up getting a Katana or a Ninja 250. Personally I would love to start him on a GZ250 or an S40 but at 16 he would consider them gay.
My son never rode a bike in his life. He got his license and immediately bought a CBR-929RR. He says it's easier to ride that his friends' 600s. The actual size and weight difference is minimal. I just hope he has enough sense to respect it.He's 22.
 

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Dimonback said:
Being one of the fools who DID start on a Sporty (albeit a 1200C), I can attest to HC's comments. This is likely one of the reasons most dealerships won't allow test rides.
One of my best friends wanted a Harley when he got back into riding. He bought the 883 Custom. That lasted 2 months...Now he sees someone on a Sportster and says "poor guy". He still won't ride anything but a Harley, though.
 

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Ok, we are down to lower insurance costs and low price points....
Are we talking about a bike for the inexperienced rider or a bike for people who have little money?There's a huge difference between the best starter bikefor a beginner and the best budget bike.
 

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Nett said:
I can hardly stand the butterflies in my belly every time I look at my ride or am heading out. After a long ride today, my husband came back out looking for me in the garage, found me just sitting on my bike, and asked me what I was doing. "Nuthn, just look'n."............... snip....... I like marching to my own drumbeat - don't you!
I hear ya! Well said (for a girl I mean, LOL). I swear I still giggle like a schoolgirl every time I get on this Kingpin. I know there are a lot of riders out there who don't "get it", but I can see that YOU DO! Just because you are female or smaller stature doesn't mean you have to ride a 'starter bike'. You should be able to enjoy a big twin like the rest of us do.
Thanks for the great post.
 

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randysfishing said:
They dont need a small bike end of story. Its not what they are about or what they do. Starter bikes are over rated you buy one and 4 weeks later you go why did I buy this I want something bigger.
Yes, exactly, and for one other reason. That "starter bike" market is saturated. Yamaha has their new Stryker 1300cc version of the Raider... Honda has like 5 versions of the VTX 1300. There are a bazillionstarter bikes from 600cc to 1300cc available and if Victory got into that market, how big a slice of that market would they get? Would it be worth the cost of R&D to make a new model and the tool-up to produce it? I seriously doubt it.
The goal at Victory has been to haveeverything modular on the production line. Now, all bikes have the same driveline (except they put different cams in the tourers). Very few chassis necessary for the whole line-up. Most parts interchange on each 'class' they manufacture.
Look at a 20118-ball....
106/6powertrain with an MSRP of $12,499. Here's one available for a lot less...
Brand new 2011 8-Ball (106"/6 speed) for $11,499:
http://www.cycletrader.com/find/listing/2011-Victory-2011-Vegas-8-Ball-97279360
I don't think you could touch that, comparing feature for feature, with any other manufacturer. Deal of the freakin' day! An American big twin for just a few dollars more than a Japanese 1300cc bike.
 

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dsjr70 said:
You may want to say the market is saturated with starter bikes, well I can say the same thing about big cruisers.Who doesnt make one?I can say with confidence there is only 1 American made starter bike and it is made by a company I wouldnt consider stupid.
And there are only two American big twin manufacturers. One makes a line of smaller models, but in comparison to the Japanese andEuropean competition they are basically crap.Put ANY Sportster in a head to head comparison with even a Suzuki SV 650 and my point becomes obvious.
I don't honestly think that the people who buy Sportsters are going to abandon them and buy the smaller Victory even if it's a better bike.They buy Sportsters BECAUSE they are a Harley they can afford and for pretty much no other reason.It's not like the bikes sell because they are such a great andsuperior motorcycle.
In what way is it cost effective for Polaris/Victory to spend the money in development of a smaller bike? What market will they get a slice of and how much of a slice? Theyalready have left-over bikes they produced and didn't sell... The 2011 models are out and I can easily buy a 2008 NEW IN THE CRATE... Do they really need to produce more models that will be sold later as left-overs and at a huge discount? Maybe we should run that by the shareholders first.
 

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scottb said:
Twelve years ago hd's 1200 sportster was only 140 cc's smaller than there electra glide.Was it a beginner bike then?kawasaki has 2000cc's,triumph has 2297 cc's,so does that makethe vision or cc a beginner bike?Everybodys to hung up on engine size and look at cc's as stepping stones.
Yeah, I remember the days when a 750 wasconsidered a BIG bike and the beginner bike was the 350 Honda.That was a long time ago. I also remember AM radio and 8-track players... sometimes progress is not so bad.
 

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mjw930 said:
How many people out there with less than $10K looking at a Suzuki or Honda would rather buy American but realize the Sportster is too small or too expensive for what it is?
These people are the perfect customer for those leftover newor used Victory bikes... In fact, I paid 10K for my Kingpin in 2007 (used w/1500 miles).
 

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dsjr70 said:
lets face it, the large cruiser market is dead.
How many large cruisers do you own?
What bikes brought Victory sales back up?Great big ol' baggers, that's what. If the large cruiser market is dead then Victory is wasting their effort with those silly CrossDressers and Visions. Harley is spinning their wheels with the new models carrying 103" and 110" powerplants. If Yamaha doesn't stop with the 113" bagger bikes it will be their undoing, I tell ya.

What are the hot sellers now in the motorcycle marketplace? Baggers. In case no one noticed, baggers killed the chopper craze dead as a doornail. Modern bikers aspire to own a kickass bagger. There are bagger magazines popping up on news stands. Big Dog's flagship model, the Bulldog, is a baggernow. Everybody makes a bagger version of their top bike... even Triumph has a bagger version of the Rocket 3.
THE market is baggers. Victory busted the bagger market WIDE F'IN OPEN last year. It was a smart move and it paid off. So far, Victory is really doing well in that big bagger market. The reviews are favorable. Acceptance is growing exponentially. It seems they found something they do well.
 
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