[mjw930]

Don has made the point and I agree. Remember, an entry level bike isn't to entice a current Victory owner to buy it, they already have you as a customer.

Growing the brand means bringing in new riders and to bring in new riders you need a sub 1000cc bike (for insurance reasons) and something that costs less than $10K OTD (for financial reasons).

And trust me, regardless how well the Cross bikes and the Visions have sold, Victory's future isn't insured until they get to the point where they sell more than 20,000 bikes a year, every year. They need to get to a point where a stand alone Victory dealer can survive and based on averages, dealers are selling roughly 25 bikes / year. Before you say that's BS run the numbers. I don't think Victory has ever sold more than 10000 bikes / year. Divide that by 300 dealers and what do you get? If some are selling a lot more then that means there are many who aren't even selling 25!

As a comparison, I think Daytona Harley (one dealer) sold 600 bikes in March of this year.........

YES, Victory needs a sub $10K bike in a big way.

 

[mjw930]

Remember, if Victory can sell 2000 entry level bikes next year that's 2000 people who may have never considered owning a Victory that now probably aspire to a Vegas, Hammer, X-Bike or Vision. Do that every year and in 5 years you have doubled the potential customer pool AND sold motorcycles.

Hell, I think Victory needs to find a way to sell 10000 of these bikes a year even if the sales of existing bikes stay flat. Build and sell them at cost giving the dealership a flat $500 for each sale in the form of a holdback or credit and within 5 years the turn around would be amazing. Brand loyalty is just about the strongest marketing incentive out there.

Harley understands that, look at their marketing plan, buy a new Sportster and trade it in within 12 months and get 100% of your purchase price in trade on a larger bike! Porsche literally was saved by the introduction of the Boxster. They went down market, grabbed thousands of customers that never would have considered buying a new Porsche (they couldn't afford one) and grew the customer base to become the most profitable private car maker in the world (until Dr. W screwed that trying to buy VW).

I'm just saying, what a current Victory owner thinks is irrelevant to this discussion, it's what a NON Victory owner thinks that matters.

 

[mjw930]

Vic sells all they can produce.

You mean that facetiously, right?

I think you meant to say, they build all they can sell then a few thoudand more just so they can discount them $5000 3 model years later when they are collecting dust on a dealership's showroom.

 

[mjw930]

Remember, if Victory can sell 2000 entry level bikes next year that's 2000 people who may have never considered owning a Victory that now probably aspire to a Vegas, Hammer, X-Bike or Vision. Do that every year and in 5 years you have doubled the potential customer pool AND sold motorcycles.

Hell, I think Victory needs to find a way to sell 10000 of these bikes a year even if the sales of existing bikes stay flat. Build and sell them at cost giving the dealership a flat $500 for each sale in the form of a holdback or credit and within 5 years the turn around would be amazing. Brand loyalty is just about the strongest marketing incentive out there.

Harley understands that, look at their marketing plan, buy a new Sportster and trade it in within 12 months and get 100% of your purchase price in trade on a larger bike! Porsche literally was saved by the introduction of the Boxster. They went down market, grabbed thousands of customers that never would have considered buying a new Porsche (they couldn't afford one) and grew the customer base to become the most profitable private car maker in the world (until Dr. W screwed that trying to buy VW).

I'm just saying, what a current Victory owner thinks is irrelevant to this discussion, it's what a NON Victory owner thinks that matters.

So basically everything you just said means nothing.

Yes and no. If it weren't for the Cross Country I wouldn't own a Victory. I've only owned one since December.

I'm just one of the customers Victory needs to win over. I'm part of the group with a decent amount of disposable income, many years of riding experience and open minded enough to buy a bike for it's performance, not for it's mystique.

The other customer they need to win over is the person looking for a solid, good looking, powerful cruiser made in America that's every bit as good as it's foreign competition but priced under $10000 with less than 1000cc's. Many of you may not know it but insurance for a younger male on ANY bike with more than 1000cc's can be the deal breaker when they are looking for a motorcycle. It's no mystery why there's an 883 Sportster. It exists only to position it within an insurance bracket that can be half as much per year as a 1200 for a 20 something male with a few points on their license.

 

[mjw930]

From what I understand, the dealers have their inventory under control. My local dealer has run out of x-bikes. They have one JP and one Hammerand two V's. The rest are used.
Please provide links to new Vix discounted $5,000.

http://www.polarisindustries.com/en-us/Victory-Motorcycles/Pages/Current-Offers.aspx

2009 Vegas, Was $16,299 Now $11,499
2009 Kingpin, Was $16,399 Now $11,999

Maybe not exactly $5K but pretty damn close.

 

[mjw930]

Although I would not want to see them build 100,000 bikes in a year I would like them to build enough for Polaris to justify keeping the doors open. I cant remember the last motorcycle company to open and stay open.

+1

 

[mjw930]

What I don't understand is why a smaller Victory seems to threaten so many here?

 

[mjw930]

Here is a perfect example, I was just in another tread and seen the tagline for Hawkineer....
2010 Victory Cross Roads p>
Do you not see brand loyalty here?

Not sure about the brand loyalty but I do see a pattern, inline 4, V-twin, inline 4, V-twin, V-twin, wanted to buy a Harley ( hence all the V-twins ) found Victory, the rest is history.

That's quite a leap. I know a lot of people who ride V-Twin cruisers that have absolutely no interest in buying a current generation Harley Air cooled V-Twin, me being one of them. Your Harley bigotry is showing.

 

[mjw930]

mjw930
This just takes you to dealer web sites. I think it's a teaser.

Sure it's a teaser but not in the way you are thinking. If my dealer has a stock 2009 Vegas on the floor I expect to be able to buy it for the price published on Victory's website. If I can't because the dealer won't honor this promotion then I'll find another or move on to another brand motorcycle from a company that honors it's promotions.

Took me 20 seconds to find this 2008 Kingpin Tour discounted $5000 off MSRP. Brand new bike, 3 models years old, $5000 off MSRP.

http://www.locomotionpowersports.co...K2010J8I54I40JPMQ2956R0&veh=55585&pov=1389560

 

[mjw930]

Here is a perfect example, I was just in another tread and seen the tagline for Hawkineer....
2010 Victory Cross Roads p>
Do you not see brand loyalty here?

Not sure about the brand loyalty but I do see a pattern, inline 4, V-twin, inline 4, V-twin, V-twin, wanted to buy a Harley ( hence all the V-twins ) found Victory, the rest is history.

That's quite a leap. I know a lot of people who ride V-Twin cruisers that have absolutely no interest in buying a current generation Harley Air cooled V-Twin, me being one of them. Your Harley bigotry is showing.

At least i'm honest, i'll never ride a Harley clone, and the big four all tried to copy Harley, with no luck.
Victory did it right, new slate, built it right, not a copy.
I'll only ride an American V-Twin, i've had lots of inline fours, good bikes, and when I could afford it I bought my Harley.
Call me a bigot if you want, i'll still sleep well with my American made motorcycle in my garage, and i'm not even American.

I certainly never doubted your honesty of sincerity. FYI, the "no luck" statement might not hold water. I'm pretty sure Victory would be quite happy to have Honda or Yamaha's global V-Twin sales figures.

 

[mjw930]

2 things....
If victory can make/sell a bike for under 10K why does it have to be under 1000 cc?

For insurance reasons. 1000cc's is the magic number with most insurance companies with riders under 40. And for the weight issues Don mentioned.

 

[mjw930]

Ibought a new Sportster in 1994. I bought it because it wasthe lightest and fastest ofthe Harleys at the time.

Thank you, you made my point perfectly.
"it was the lightest and fastest of the HARLEYS at the time".
Granted, but I'll bet you wouldn't have had to look hard to find a lighter, faster, smoother, and cheaperbike from Japan (Nighthawk comes to mind).You were looking for a Harley to start with... and probably on a budget... the Harleythat was withinbudget just happened to be light and quick (for a Harley).

I'm not sure if it was a budget issue with Rollin, but you have also made my point. If it was a budget issue atleast HD had something to offer him. Also, if Rollins says it is one of his favorite bikes how bad can they be?

And THAT is what it all boils down to. There are thousands of riders who WANT to buy American and buy new but don't have the disposable income to buy a big Harley or any Victory. Today their choice is a Sportster or a Japanese clone. That's the market Victory needs to exploit.

 

[mjw930]

Also, if Rollins says it is one of his favorite bikes how bad can they be?

One good thing about the pre-rubber mount Sporties, you don't need a tach. When the grips feel like they are 3 inches in diameter... shift!

 

[mjw930]

You may want to say the market is saturated with starter bikes, well I can say the same thing about big cruisers.Who doesnt make one?I can say with confidence there is only 1 American made starter bike and it is made by a company I wouldnt consider stupid.

And there are only two American big twin manufacturers. One makes a line of smaller models, but in comparison to the Japanese andEuropean competition they are basically crap.Put ANY Sportster in a head to head comparison with even a Suzuki SV 650 and my point becomes obvious.
I don't honestly think that the people who buy Sportsters are going to abandon them and buy the smaller Victory even if it's a better bike.They buy Sportsters BECAUSE they are a Harley they can afford and for pretty much no other reason.It's not like the bikes sell because they are such a great andsuperior motorcycle.
In what way is it cost effective for Polaris/Victory to spend the money in development of a smaller bike? What market will they get a slice of and how much of a slice? Theyalready have left-over bikes they produced and didn't sell... The 2011 models are out and I can easily buy a 2008 NEW IN THE CRATE... Do they really need to produce more models that will be sold later as left-overs and at a huge discount? Maybe we should run that by the shareholders first.

The ONLY reason that is true is because EXCEPT for the Vision and the Cross bikes Victory's are hugely over priced. I looked at them off and on since '99 and there was nothing compelling about them at their price point. The Vision almost got my money in '09 but the demo bike was beat to hell and it scared me off. The XC came in with performance, looks and a price that made it compelling so I bought it.

The "New" pricing on the Vegas and 8-balls is where they should have been all along, anything over $15K for what is basically a naked cruiser is a tough sell, ask any dealer......

Everyone here who says they don't need a sub $10K bike has never been to business school or owned a powersports dealership. How many people out there with less than $10K looking at a Suzuki or Honda would rather buy American but realize the Sportster is too small or too expensive for what it is? Being under $10K does not mean the bike has to be small or a starter bike, it just means it needs to fill a price gap in the product lineup.