VOG Forum banner
1 - 5 of 5 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,116 Posts
Would it help the dealership network? Absolutely.....but too many people put the Manufacturer and the Dealership arguments into the same argument and that is where the biggest mistake is made.

The thing about this issue is that Victory doesn't even need to get into the weeds with the likes of the big 4 (Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki) to make in-roads with the beginning rider. They could come out with an 1100-1300 cc bike on the Vegas/Kingpin platform for around $10K and make an impact (vs $7,500-8,500). The big 4 are forced to push price, price, price because, much like H-D, they are fueling a huge market-share monster.

Victory would benefit from an entry level bike but they are in the enviable position of not needing it to keep the lights on.....and if you were the guy who was writing the checks, or even more important, the guy who has several hundreds of family's financial futures in your hands do you want to go down that road in this economy?

The big question is CAN they build a bare-bones 1100 cc bike for $10K? Its not as easy of a question as people think. The reason why the big 4 and H-D can produce at that price point is pure economies of scale and Victory has shown they have no interest in walking that fine line in today's market.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,116 Posts
dsjr70 said:
satxron said:
Those buts will always get you. They would have to make a motor. A new motor cost millions to make. Even if all they did was clone the 92 and shrink it down it would cost millions to start a sustainable production. Frames, and metal parts would be no problem but that motor and transmission would not be cheap.
They have multiple motors under 1000 cc already in production and they just purchased Swiss Auto's engine division. The Polaris 800 Sportsman has the perfect motor, 760cc liquid cooled.
But Don, you can't put a radiator on a Victory......people who would never own a starter bike wouldn't buy it........

walks away whistling.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,116 Posts
If Victory ever came out with a "starter bike" with a smaller motor I can almost guarantee you that they would have a motorcycle specific design. No way do they pull a motor from the snowmobile line or any off-road product.

I'm sure Swiss Auto would be involved in some capacity but this would be a Victory only motor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,116 Posts
spider said:
dsjr70 said:
phoenix9 said:
If Victory ever came out with a "starter bike" with a smaller motor I can almost guarantee you that they would have a motorcycle specific design. No way do they pull a motor from the snowmobile line or any off-road product.

I'm sure Swiss Auto would be involved in some capacity but this would be a Victory only motor.
Interesting, I didnt see that coming from you so I would ask why? Swiss Auto is owned by Polaris and Polaris only purchased the motor division so they have to use it for something, they already have enough off-road and snow mobile motors. Yamaha and Honda have been sharing motors, hubs and other various parts between there off road and on road divisions. Also, as someone mentioned to me yesterday, who's to say their smaller/starter bike has to be a cruiser style, it could be like a European sport cruiser style then you wouldnt see the motor. Before youdismiss that thought think about how progressive the Vision was when it came out.
I don't think reverse engineering is the way to go, personally.
If Victory made another motorcycle " without " the 50 deg air/oiled V-Twin they now have it would have a detrimental effect on the " Victory " brand.
It's bad enough that Victory has already screwed present owners by making models " obsolete " and slashing the price tags so low that one will never ever be able to get a decent resale of their 2 year old machines, and yes, I did not buy my motorcycle for the resale value, but also I thought I was buying a viable alternative to HD.
I love my Vic but the whole " company " makes me a little leery.
Vic does not need a " starter " bike, Vic needs to be more agressive with marketing, treat existing customers a little better, stop de-valueing our machines and get rid of all the crappy dealers.
Of course this is only my opinion, a new Victory owner who really is starting to wonder if I should promote the brand or tell people what's really happening.
It's one thing to be creative, leading edge technology, but at what cost ?
Bring in some new customers and in the meantime push the faithful away.
There are better machines out there, ( in some peoples minds ) way cheaper than a Victory, go buy one, when you grow out of it, buy a Vic.
Flame away...
Don,

I probably should have expanded on that thought. I could see them using proven engineering design cues as a "baseline starting point" to save on initial design costs, but then tearing it down and bringing it back to life in a modified format that would not be recognizable to the naked eye as to it's former heritage. In my mind the ergonomics of a motorcycle would dictate significant changes that would not allow for a drop-in-place swap.

In addition, Victory would have to fight the perception of putting a snowmobile engine, or an ATV engine into one of their motorcycles........The common man won't know the little technical engineering "cheating" that takes place.

Spider,

I respect your opinions a lot and agree with you on the improved marketing, and treating customers better, but I do have a differing opinion on a couple items.

First, none of us are overly happy with the dealership network (yes there are some damn good ones out there, but that seems to be the exception more than the rule), but I think that is the EXACT VERY REASON why coming out with a small bike is so important. If you can take a "complete lineup" to market and give it to the good businessmen out there you will be able to attract a much higher quality if dealerships. As it stands now, no good business person could honestly look at the Victory line and make a commitment as there just isn't enough for them to sell to keep the doors open........no product, no foot traffic......no foot traffic, no sales........so no profits and there is where the best businessmen out there are going to walk away from Victory.

I work for a company that controls over 80% of the distribution network in the US.....when you get that big we have quite a few players that don't exactly love us that much. So why are they so loyal to us? One reason is because we give them the greatest competitive package in the marketplace. If you are with us you have access to the entire industry. If you are against us we will give your competitor that advantage and you will lose the competitive balance.

Next item I think we disagree on is the "obsoleting" of the older bikes. I feel that this is due to the backwards marketing of this industry. No industry has sold "old-school, vintage, heritage, classic" than the motorcycling industry....and we know where that comes from H-D. If you look at any other similar industry (cars, trucks, tractors, recreational vehicles of any kind......etc) you will find that companies roll out new and improved models and engineering designs on a regular basis. When they rolled out the revolutionary new Ford Taurus no one was upset that they basically "obsoleted" the previous models.

Motorcycles, from 1985 until 2004 were the only vehicles where people actually thought they had just purchased an investment. They were mistaken.....think back to 1995 and how many Harley owners did you know that made comments about how Harley's were "investments".........they were right for about 15 minutes.....now they just look foolish. Any bike that never changes design will always depreciate slower, but they also risk losing marketshare. H-D is now paying that price in spades.

The economy, along with companies like Victory, and BMW, and Honda, and Triumph had no choice but to leave that old business model and shoot for cutting edge engineering advancements as a way to keep the lights on. Did it make previous vehicles worth less? Absolutely. But the old model of selling on resale had become an non-existant business model, and I can't blame any manufacturer for protecting their own bottom lines by making huge changes to garner FUTURE marketshare.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,116 Posts
dsjr70 said:
phoenix9 said:
The economy, along with companies like Victory, and BMW, and Honda, and Triumph had no choice but to leave that old business model and shoot for cutting edge engineering advancements as a way to keep the lights on. Did it make previous vehicles worth less? Absolutely. But the old model of selling on resale had become an non-existant business model, and I can't blame any manufacturer for protecting their own bottom lines by making huge changes to garner FUTURE marketshare.
The only thing I would disagree with (not with you Mark) is instead of dropping the MSRP of the Pin and Vegas they should have dropped the bikes. They are both old designs ready to be moth balled. Instead of pissing off your current customer base I would have renamed the X bikes or came out with two more X bikes with real fenders and called them the new and improved Pin and Vegas. If you want to keep changing names dont name them call them a VTX or something.
Now, I see that as a stroke of genius to keep them. The overhead costs on these bikes have been paid for loooooong ago and its just a matter of assembling the bikes. It gives the Victory line an Old-school option to the new X-bikes, and keeps guys like Spider a little more supported by not dropping the line and further reducing resale price.....now, that's not to say that they won't pull the plug once all the old inventory has been sold but I personally think it is wise to keep the Kingpin and Vegas around. Why does H-D keep the Heritage around when they have the Road King?
 
1 - 5 of 5 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top