[scottb]

when the dealer meetings come around i always have this conversation with my dealer.i ask him if he thinks victory will come out with a smaller bike.his answer is always the same.no,it wouldnt be cost effective.so how about some input from everyone here on whyvictory should or shouldnt consider doing this.

 

[ScreamingEag1e]

They won't do it because they know that we bikers, riders and enthusiasts and weekend warriorsare hung up on power and performance. Its common on all motorcycle threads. Power, speed, torque, 1/4 mile times. Making a smaller bike means less. In effect, going backward. Watch, on Monday the entire Victory line will be hanging the 106s.

 

[phoenix9]

Would it help the dealership network? Absolutely.....but too many people put the Manufacturer and the Dealership arguments into the same argument and that is where the biggest mistake is made.

The thing about this issue is that Victory doesn't even need to get into the weeds with the likes of the big 4 (Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki) to make in-roads with the beginning rider. They could come out with an 1100-1300 cc bike on the Vegas/Kingpin platform for around $10K and make an impact (vs $7,500-8,500). The big 4 are forced to push price, price, price because, much like H-D, they are fueling a huge market-share monster.

Victory would benefit from an entry level bike but they are in the enviable position of not needing it to keep the lights on.....and if you were the guy who was writing the checks, or even more important, the guy who has several hundreds of family's financial futures in your hands do you want to go down that road in this economy?

The big question is CAN they build a bare-bones 1100 cc bike for $10K? Its not as easy of a question as people think. The reason why the big 4 and H-D can produce at that price point is pure economies of scale and Victory has shown they have no interest in walking that fine line in today's market.

 

[dsjr70]

Unlike my usual comments I will disagree with the norm. Vic sees a need for an entry level bike and dealers like Randy's and Volusia see a need. These are single brand dealers not like Ride Now and some of the mega dealers that have an entry. Just food for thought, if Vic did not want an entry level cruiser under 1000cc why would they have tried to team up with KTM on the Vision 800? or more currently Swiss Auto?

 

[Half_Crazy]

Victory owners/riders don't want or need a 'starter bike'. Victory is a bike you upgrade to after you outgrow that starter bike. A machine people aspire to own. Leave the 900-1300 cc girly bikes to the Japanese big four.
You could always get a Sportster.... Not only will the big twin Harley riders look down at you, but the guys on Japanese cruisers can get a laugh at your expense as well. They should make Sportsters smell bad so that blind people can hate 'em too.

 

[SirP]

Victory owners/riders don't want or need a 'starter bike'. Victory is a bike you upgrade to after you outgrow that starter bike. A machine people aspire to own. Leave the 900-1300 cc girly bikes to the Japanese big four.

It would be good for the company, get more sales and brand loyalty so people upgrade within the brand. They could make a small cc engine more powerful than existing engines. There's something fun about taking a cheaper bike and tuning it to it's best ability.

If someone was so gunhoe about a big engine they would go boss hoss or triumph.

 

[SuperCC]

I think an enrty level bike is neededdon't you think people upgrade from the 883 series to the upscale models. Entry riders feel more comfortable with a smaller CC bike. HD understands once someone gets a brand they tend to repeat buy.

 

[spider]

Victory owners/riders don't want or need a 'starter bike'. Victory is a bike you upgrade to after you outgrow that starter bike. A machine people aspire to own. Leave the 900-1300 cc girly bikes to the Japanese big four.
You could always get a Sportster.... Not only will the big twin Harley riders look down at you, but the guys on Japanese cruisers can get a laugh at your expense as well. They should make Sportsters smell bad so that blind people can hate 'em too.

+1 on the first paragraph ! When I had my " girly " bikes I wanted a bigger bike but not a bigger Jap bike, I wanted a Harley ( Vic was not around back then. )
I would never own a Sportster so the " transition " to a bigger model was not there for me.
It works for HD cause people think they're " badass " if they own one, they just need to read your second paragraph, lol.

 

[satxron]

Victory owners/riders don't want or need a 'starter bike'. Victory is a bike you upgrade to after you outgrow that starter bike. A machine people aspire to own.

Wow! nobody could say it better than that.

What a great idea for a commercial huh. Some older teens hanging out and a Vegas lumbers by. They look up in admiration and one of the young ones points and says "One day I will have one of them".

 

[Half_Crazy]

HD understands once someone gets a brand they tend to repeat buy.

Have you ridden a Sportster 883? After that experience a person could be put off Harleys for life... The last time I rode one I climbed off thinking "I wouldn't walk across the street to piss on that thing if it was ON FIRE". Proof positive that if Harley chromed a turd, some idiot would pay top dollar for it.
The 883 has a 28" seat height. EVERY Victory model has a lower seat than that by 3 inches. What makes thisgood starter bike again? I must havemissed it...

 

[SuperCC]

HD understands once someone gets a brand they tend to repeat buy.

Have you ridden a Sportster 883? After that experience a person could be put off Harleys for life... The last time I rode one I climbed off thinking "I wouldn't walk across the street to piss on that thing if it was ON FIRE". Proof positive that if Harley chromed a turd, some idiot would pay top dollar for it.
The 883 has a 28" seat height. EVERY Victory model has a lower seat than that by 3 inches. What makes thisgood starter bike again? I must havemissed it...

I have ridden sportster and other HD's. This why I drive a CC not a SG because of the great product. When you mention that you wouldn't walk across the road to ride the bike that's because your an experienced rider. Who do we see ride the sportsters first time riders and buyers not the experienced ones. When it comes to upgrading they will typically buy the same brand fact.

 

[Half_Crazy]

Who do we see ride the sportsters first time riders and buyers not the experienced ones. When it comes to upgrading they will typically buy the same brand fact.

Harley would have to explain to me what makes the 883 Sportster a good 'starter bike'. Yes, they offer a lower version... with a lot less ground clearance and hardly any suspension travel... exactly what every newbee desires, right? There are a lot of bikes better for a beginner. A person who compared models/brands with an open mind wouldn't choose the 883 in the first place.
The only market for these things are folks who must have a Harley, so they are brand loyal BEFORE they ever buy the bike. Of course they will later upgrade to another Harley.

 

[spider]

The only market for these things are folks who must have a Harley, so they are brand loyal BEFORE they ever buy the bike. Of course they will later upgrade to another Harley.

Well said !

 

[bikeriderga]

I have to agree with Half here. The Sporty has to be one of the worst riding motorcycles on the market. I would not buy a Sportie and would not ride one if someone gave me one. I like the feeling in my extremities too much!

Sporties are for people who want to be part of "the club." Sad thing is, they do not even know they are NOT part of "the club."

Harley folks (unless they are biker babes), laugh at people who ride a "Sporty". You might as well ride a "rice burner" as far as the Harley riders are concerned. You can buy so much more motorcycle for the same or less money for what a Sportie cost.

If I were looking for that class of bike, I would put my money on a Suzuki C50, a Kawasaki Vulcan 900, a Yammie 900, or a Triumph America. Not only would you have a much better ride, you will have a much better motorcycle!

I encourage people to buy American, but in the below 1500 cc cruiser class, Jap or British bikes are the only real choice!

 

[dsjr70]

Well I will concede to Half Crazies comment that Victory Riders/Owners do not want a starter bike. But the fact is except for a couple of people all Victory Riders/Owners are experienced riders so why would they want an entry bike. However it is a fact that an entry bike breeds brand loyalty. They may sell us one or two bikes but if they get an 18 year old kid on a bike they may sell him 8 or 9 bikes in his lifetime.
The facts are there that Victory is serious about the entry level bikes and if the economy didnt tank there probably would be a Vision 800 out there. The Sportster may be a peice of crap (I have no clue) but I know allot of HD guys that started on a Sportster because that was what they could afford at the time. Seat height is not what makes a starter bike, weight is the biggest factor and the Sportster, C/M-50 and all the other sub 1000 cc bikes out there are light and get your confidence up quickly.
In all my time on here I have only seen (maybe) two post that someone was looking at a Victory for there first bike. Does it happen? Sure, but not as offen as the dealers would like.

 

[Half_Crazy]

Harley folks (unless they are biker babes), laugh at people who ride a "Sporty". You might as well ride a "rice burner" as far as the Harley riders are concerned.

I'm going to hell....
The other night my friend and I were riding on a multi-lane road, he on his Street Glide and me on my Kingpin. We came up on another bike, it was a Sportster. The guy is wearing his leather chaps and vest (it's almost 100 degrees). When he sees us, he starts with the engine reving/gassing it and letting off. We get next to him and he gives us his best 'tough biker scowl'....
I couldn't help it, it just tickled me, so I bust outlaughing. He's looking right at me and themore I chuckled the more tickled I got... I'm tellin' ya, that was funny, I don't care who ya are. Oh yeah, dude, you are a stonebadass! I'm kinda scared!

 

[dsjr70]

Victory owners/riders don't want or need a 'starter bike'. Victory is a bike you upgrade to after you outgrow that starter bike. A machine people aspire to own.

Wow! nobody could say it better than that.

What a great idea for a commercialhuh. Some older teens hanging out and a Vegas lumbers by. They look up in admiration and one of the young ones points and says "One day I will have one of them".

+1
Or maybe if they wanted to make up for there short comings inOTHER departments, they could even buy THREE VEGAS'S!!!
Shawn

or four but who is counting!

 

[bored76]

Victory owners/riders don't want or need a 'starter bike'. Victory is a bike you upgrade to after you outgrow that starter bike. A machine people aspire to own.

Wow! nobody could say it better than that.

What a great idea for a commercialhuh. Some older teens hanging out and a Vegas lumbers by. They look up in admiration and one of the young ones points and says "One day I will have one of them".

+1
Or maybe if they wanted to make up for there short comings inOTHER departments, they could even buy THREE VEGAS'S!!!
Shawn

or four but who is counting!

How about an 1100cor1300cc vegas?
I think a smaller Vic would be great as a second bike to zip back and forth to work.

 

[dsjr70]

Victory owners/riders don't want or need a 'starter bike'. Victory is a bike you upgrade to after you outgrow that starter bike. A machine people aspire to own.

Wow! nobody could say it better than that.

What a great idea for a commercialhuh. Some older teens hanging out and a Vegas lumbers by. They look up in admiration and one of the young ones points and says "One day I will have one of them".

+1
Or maybe if they wanted to make up for there short comings inOTHER departments, they could even buy THREE VEGAS'S!!!
Shawn

or four but who is counting!

How about an 1100cor1300cc vegas?
I think a smaller Vic would be great as a second bike to zip back and forth to work.

I agree a smaller Vegas could be the answer, but it would need to be smaller then 1100. There would not be that much of a weight difference between the 1100 and the 1500. It could however fill the gap between the starter bike and the mid range cruiser. My Honda has more then enough power for me to cruise around town.

 

[mjw930]

Don has made the point and I agree. Remember, an entry level bike isn't to entice a current Victory owner to buy it, they already have you as a customer.

Growing the brand means bringing in new riders and to bring in new riders you need a sub 1000cc bike (for insurance reasons) and something that costs less than $10K OTD (for financial reasons).

And trust me, regardless how well the Cross bikes and the Visions have sold, Victory's future isn't insured until they get to the point where they sell more than 20,000 bikes a year, every year. They need to get to a point where a stand alone Victory dealer can survive and based on averages, dealers are selling roughly 25 bikes / year. Before you say that's BS run the numbers. I don't think Victory has ever sold more than 10000 bikes / year. Divide that by 300 dealers and what do you get? If some are selling a lot more then that means there are many who aren't even selling 25!

As a comparison, I think Daytona Harley (one dealer) sold 600 bikes in March of this year.........

YES, Victory needs a sub $10K bike in a big way.