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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone,

I have a 2011 Kingpin 8-ball on the way and I have an exhaust question. What do you think of the shotgun exhaust? I am partial to it since hearing it, but I am still up in the air between the shotguns and the slash pipes. I'm looking for volume, first and foremost... real nasty, obnoxious volume to keep the cage drivers in their lanes.

I have heard nothing bad about the shotguns from people I have spoken to, but a few have expressed opinions that they have experienced some popping and backfiring with the slashes. So, I guess this was a very long way to ask... what do you guys think? Thanks again!
 

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I don't have either but I'll give you the small insight that I was given on them when I was looking at exhaust.
I was also looking at the slash but I was heavily warned against it. Everyone agreed that it looks great the problem comes in if you ride with other people at all.
If what you are talking about islike the picture below the exhaust will kick dirt up off of the road and into the face of anyone ridingbehind you. I stayed away from it for that reason but I love the look of it.
As for volume, you're on your own with that one. I like mine quiter so I just went with stage 1 slip-ons. Good luck.
 

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The shotguns are louder and better performing then the Vic slash pipes. The Ness slash are louder then the shotguns...
The Vic slash pop, the Ness sound like a howitzer.... I haven't seen a set of performance pipes that does not pop.
If you want loud and obnoxious go with Hacker Pipes or the Ground Pounders.
Don
 

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If your only concern is noise then either one is a good choice. Before you put the pipes on remove the baffles, it's much easier before you mount the pipes.
I have the shotguns on my 07 Kingpin andmy riding buddy has the Ness Slashness pipes on his 06 Kingpin. Both of us are running homemade lollipops instead of the stock baffles and it's hard to tell which one is louder. His make my ears ring when he nails the throttle and mine make his eyes bleed when I crack into it.
From a performance standpoint I will say that both pipes are about equal in HP and TQ...UNTIL you go over 98 or so HP, then the Shotguns fall on their face. The headpipe is too small to make really good power over 98, but they do make great TQ. As soon as I can afford it I will get rid of my Shotguns and put on an RPW Thor 2-1. It will not be as loud but it makes unbelievable HP and TQ.
 

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I ditto Dsjr70's comments. I had the Shotguns on my Kingpin and I miss them. I only wish they made 'em for my Cross Country because I would put them on in a heartbeat.

Coincidentally I was looking at some Cobra slip on's to see if I could mod them to fit my Cross bike.
 

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BLININGER said:
Everyone agreed that it looks great the problem comes in if you ride with other people at all.
If what you are talking about islike the picture below the exhaust will kick dirt up off of the road and into the face of anyone ridingbehind you.
I've never had that complaint before, but it sure was funny the first time I started it in a dirt parking lot with people standing around...
 

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I have the shotguns on my 07 KPT. I had the stage 1 slip-ons set up from the dealer when I bought the bike new. I like the look of the shotguns, but I'm pretty sure they are not the best choice for performance. I think I lost power switching from the slip-ons to the shotguns. There is a bunch of info out there about performance and pipes for Vics.

To me, it's worth considering performance vs. sound and looks when making your decision. I wish I had researched a little more than I did.

I'm also thinking seriously about a 2 into 1 pipe. I love the deep tone of the 2-1, not as loud, but I grow tired of the ear splitting volume on long rides with my SG pipes.
 

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If you want volume, get Conquest Custom's Ground Pounders or CycleOps Talons. If you want performance, don't waste your time with the shotguns. Check out lloydz site his comment on these pipes on a dyno for an 07 with them is something along the lines of "worst performance pipe ever made".
 

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I put a set of DG Hard Krome Strippers on my 2008 Kingpin 8Ball, and I loved the sound. They are a reasonably priced set of shotguns too. I recommend checking them out. The only issue was that the floorboards had to be moved forward with extenders (2") but, that worked out for me anyway as I am tall.
 

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midian said:
Hello everyone,

I have a 2011 Kingpin 8-ball on the way and I have an exhaust question. What do you think of the shotgun exhaust? I am partial to it since hearing it, but I am still up in the air between the shotguns and the slash pipes. I'm looking for volume, first and foremost... real nasty, obnoxious volume to keep the cage drivers in their lanes.

I have heard nothing bad about the shotguns from people I have spoken to, but a few have expressed opinions that they have experienced some popping and backfiring with the slashes. So, I guess this was a very long way to ask... what do you guys think? Thanks again!
I have shotguns on my 08 Kingpin, I really like them.
I have the stock baffles in them and they sound pretty good, way better than the slash cut.
If you want a better sounding shotgun, go with the Thgunder Monster Baffles instead of the stock ones, they sound 1000 % better, deeper sound and better torque curve, so i'm told.
Nowif you want a totally insane ( in a good way ) sound, the Ground Pounders are the best sounding pipes i've heard yet, crazy deep sound.
Personal style and performance will be the deciding factors, what are you willing to sacrafice for sound ?
As far as the " popping and backfiring " goes, most issues are withthe 08's and 09's, closed loop issues, not the pipes so much as the louder the pipe, the louder the popping.
 

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Rowebote said:
If you want volume, get Conquest Custom's Ground Pounders or CycleOps Talons. If you want performance, don't waste your time with the shotguns. Check out lloydz site his comment on these pipes on a dyno for an 07 with them is something along the lines of "worst performance pipe ever made".
Just wanted to clarify something for you here... Yes, the Talons or Outbursts will give you volume with a nice deep rumble, but don't sell them short on performance. I've yet to see another 2-2 system post numbers better than, nor equal to, either the Talons or Outbursts. They are one of the only truly tuned pipes specific for Vics. I think actually they may even be the onlytruly tuned pipes (each section of each front and rear pipe equal to each other, industry acceptable standard is towithin a 1" max tolerance). Secondly, on a Lloydz built bog bore motor the Talons gave 15 HP and almost 10 pts in torque increase over several other pipes tested. Bottom line is I built them to perform as good as they look and sound.
 

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Hey Will, I didn't mean to imply that your Talons, Outbursts or the Conquest Custom GP's lacked in performance and I apologize if it came out that way. My comments on performance were solely pertaining to the shotgun pipes. I've seen the dyno's that you posted and I wouldn't sell your pipes short on performance. I really like the Talons in sound, looks and performance.
 

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CycleOpsUSA said:
Just wanted to clarify something for you here... Yes, the Talons or Outbursts will give you volume with a nice deep rumble, but don't sell them short on performance. I've yet to see another 2-2 system post numbers better than, nor equal to, either the Talons or Outbursts. They are one of the only truly tuned pipes specific for Vics. I think actually they may even be the onlytruly tuned pipes (each section of each front and rear pipe equal to each other, industry acceptable standard is towithin a 1" max tolerance). Secondly, on a Lloydz built bog bore motor the Talons gave 15 HP and almost 10 pts in torque increase over several other pipes tested. Bottom line is I built them to perform as good as they look and sound.
What exactly did you do to tune them? I would not consider them "tuned" just because the tubes areequal length.
I have seen the graphs on Lloydz website and spoken with him personally about the Talons and they don't perform better than any other set of good pipes (RPW Thor, Bassani etc). They are however more expensive, and the last time I checked you still charge for heat shields.
In my opinion you piped up in this thread to throw out an advertisement for pipes that you make and sell.
 

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No worries there Rowebote, I know that, but I didn't want others to misconstrue your post so it's all good.
And evilive69, you're snippy tone could use some manners, plus some education. You obviously have an attitude, but I'll try and refrain from giving you the same in return and make believe you asked this nicely. If you asked and said what you did you obviously don't have much first hand knowledge on the subject of making pipes, or power, so let's go to school now.
Now given your attitude I should probably just not even bother, but for the sake of others here seeing your rant I will go into it more for them.
First of all, pipes made as described with less than 1" in deviation pipeto pipe (same length sections front/rear pipes)are called tuned pipes. Equal lengths of each pipe diameter along with somoth flowing bends creates an equal back pressure for each cylinder, thereby letting the cylinders work in harmony thereby creating all the power available. If you have two equal horses pulling a carriage then it goes the best. If one horse isn't feeling as well as the other he holds the other horse back. V Twin engines do the same thing. It's simple physics. Now to go a step further, our pipes don't appear to have equaL length sections on the 1-3/4 pipe and the intermediate 2" pipe, but they are.Iwanted the steps to sit on a similar level front and rear for a balanced look, so to get both the look and the tune, the front 1-3/4 headpipe is set deeply into the 2" section, thereby making it as long internally as the longer exposed rear pipe headpipe, which by doing so also effectively shortens the center 2" section to that of the same section on the rear. Then both 2-1/2" dump pipes are equal. This is what is meant by tuned pipes. Another note as to intentional design... the smaller diameter headpipes are left much longer than most others out there (most stop only inches from the head) for a reason... to keep up the torque by holding the gasses tight until they cool enough to expand into the second section. And the third sections are 2-1/2" which require the use of a custom made collar that gets welded in between the two last sections to make the larger than normal 1/2" diameter jump. This gives an expansion chamber effect and let's the exhaust expand and evacuate freely. The large diameter final also gives a deeper tone than smaller diameter pipes.
Llooyd, as well as Kevin Cross both commented on the improvement in the mid/upper 2K RPM flat spot our bikes tend to have. Lloyd also ran the Talons on a 116 build he did and after trying several sets of pipes, mine showed a close to 15% gain in HP and a few points in TQ.
As for price, you're right, they're not cheap, but as you're trying to assert it's profit, get off your high horse as it is not. It is time that goes into making them by hand, one by one, fit on a motor, not a jig, making them fit perfectly, with no pulling, prying, or spacing as found one the average production pipes out there. I've owned others, and let's just say without naming names that the fit was a struggle. If you haven't seen this, then you obviulsly haven't changed to many sets out.
The hand cleaning/sanding down of all the welds takes time and skill, so it obviously adds to the costs.The heatshields are also made by hand, so they too cost moretoo.
Bottom line, and I've said it before, my pipes are not something I make for everyone. They are for the guy who doesn't settle for 2nd rate, nor the guy who thinks cheaper is better. Like all my parts I am not price concious from inception to completion, I am quality, performance for the intended use, and fit concious first, and the prices fall where they do once those parameters are met. Hell, I even put too much into the Talons, so much sothat my margins aren't even close to what the other manufacturers are making on theirs.

I hope this helps members understand this all, and as for evilive69, next time you want to give meyour ****tyattutude don't do it from behind a keyboard like a computer cowboy, call me and do it like a man instead of like you did here like a child, so that I can give you my true thoughts in return in private.
 

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As far as a ****ty attitude you took my comments personally and showed what an ass you really are. If I were you I would get the chip off your shoulder, especially when you are a vendor trying to sell stuff. And there is no need to contact me offline, do it here on an open forum. Let people see what you are really about.
And to sum up the lengthy diatribe you posted it's exactly like I said...you made equal length pipes, just like other manufacturers, except yours cost significantly more and don't produce better numbers. Look at Lloydz website, there are more graphs with other manufacturers pipes...I wonder why. If you ask Lloyd what pipes make the best power yours do not even come up. And I am familiar with the 116 that Lloyd built and put your pipes on, of course it showed a great improvement...he was testing with crummy pipes because he didn't have any other ones in stock.
I never said that you were doing it to make a high profit...don't put words in my mouth to make yourself look better. As far as fitment goes...what fitment, the pipes bolt to each other and don't mount to the bike at all. If you have floorboards you need a spacer kit, I guess fitment consideration was only for people with forward controls.
And yes I am correct, you charge for heat sheilds. I wonder if you still recommend that people can modify their own stock heat sheilds...or that they should buy liquid ceramic coat and bake them in their own oven.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well, whatever the case, I appreciate everyone's feedback, opinion and information regarding my question. I would just hate to see this turn into a typical web argument. So, thank you everyone for such insightful and valued opinions.

-Rob
 

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CycleOpsUSA said:
No worries there Rowebote, I know that, but I didn't want others to misconstrue your post so it's all good.
And evilive69, you're snippy tone could use some manners, plus some education. You obviously have an attitude, but I'll try and refrain from giving you the same in return and make believe you asked this nicely. If you asked and said what you did you obviously don't have much first hand knowledge on the subject of making pipes, or power, so let's go to school now.
Now given your attitude I should probably just not even bother, but for the sake of others here seeing your rant I will go into it more for them.
First of all, pipes made as described with less than 1" in deviation pipeto pipe (same length sections front/rear pipes)are called tuned pipes. Equal lengths of each pipe diameter along with somoth flowing bends creates an equal back pressure for each cylinder, thereby letting the cylinders work in harmony thereby creating all the power available. If you have two equal horses pulling a carriage then it goes the best. If one horse isn't feeling as well as the other he holds the other horse back. V Twin engines do the same thing. It's simple physics. Now to go a step further, our pipes don't appear to have equaL length sections on the 1-3/4 pipe and the intermediate 2" pipe, but they are.Iwanted the steps to sit on a similar level front and rear for a balanced look, so to get both the look and the tune, the front 1-3/4 headpipe is set deeply into the 2" section, thereby making it as long internally as the longer exposed rear pipe headpipe, which by doing so also effectively shortens the center 2" section to that of the same section on the rear. Then both 2-1/2" dump pipes are equal. This is what is meant by tuned pipes. Another note as to intentional design... the smaller diameter headpipes are left much longer than most others out there (most stop only inches from the head) for a reason... to keep up the torque by holding the gasses tight until they cool enough to expand into the second section. And the third sections are 2-1/2" which require the use of a custom made collar that gets welded in between the two last sections to make the larger than normal 1/2" diameter jump. This gives an expansion chamber effect and let's the exhaust expand and evacuate freely. The large diameter final also gives a deeper tone than smaller diameter pipes.
Llooyd, as well as Kevin Cross both commented on the improvement in the mid/upper 2K RPM flat spot our bikes tend to have. Lloyd also ran the Talons on a 116 build he did and after trying several sets of pipes, mine showed a close to 15% gain in HP and a few points in TQ.
As for price, you're right, they're not cheap, but as you're trying to assert it's profit, get off your high horse as it is not. It is time that goes into making them by hand, one by one, fit on a motor, not a jig, making them fit perfectly, with no pulling, prying, or spacing as found one the average production pipes out there. I've owned others, and let's just say without naming names that the fit was a struggle. If you haven't seen this, then you obviulsly haven't changed to many sets out.
The hand cleaning/sanding down of all the welds takes time and skill, so it obviously adds to the costs.The heatshields are also made by hand, so they too cost moretoo.
Bottom line, and I've said it before, my pipes are not something I make for everyone. They are for the guy who doesn't settle for 2nd rate, nor the guy who thinks cheaper is better. Like all my parts I am not price concious from inception to completion, I am quality, performance for the intended use, and fit concious first, and the prices fall where they do once those parameters are met. Hell, I even put too much into the Talons, so much sothat my margins aren't even close to what the other manufacturers are making on theirs.

I hope this helps members understand this all, and as for evilive69, next time you want to give meyour ****tyattutude don't do it from behind a keyboard like a computer cowboy, call me and do it like a man instead of like you did here like a child, so that I can give you my true thoughts in return in private.
Will, Please do not tell me that if you make an exhaust that it will be a "tuned exhaust" if each side has equal lengths? You seem smarter than that. Next IMHO he wasn'tgiving you a ****ty attitude, but offering his opinion, which certainly has valid points. Better information from you, in my opinion, would to provide facts of why your pipes are worth the price as far as performance or desired sound than the competition. I believe that your company, an appreciated vendor on this site, would be better served if you toned yourresponses down a little bit. Now obviously you are a successful business person, as am I, but you could do yourself a huge favor by getting that chip removed from your shoulder.
 

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I took his pot as stated Dave, no more, no less. If you didn't see antogonism in his post I suggest you read it again. It was disrespectful, uncalled for, and is so becaue to top it all off he doesn't know what he's talking about.
As to responding here to you oh so evil one, responding in a PM just wouldn't be worth it, so don't flatter yourself, you weren't getting one.
It's funny how a guy on here who blatantly attempts to taunt someone for some unknown reason, some hidden agenda, who knows,ad from behind the anonymoussafety of thei keyboard no less, whohides his identity anddoesn't post a real name in their profie, makes you wonder if they're a troll, doesn't it?I don't gve a crap if I'm a vendor or not, you don't know your ass fro your elbow about the subject.If you read a thing I just wrote you werre answered on more than the pipe lengths,so you oviously have a problem with me for some reason to spew attempts to discredit me publicly. Why don't you state who you are,or are you going to stay i the shdows like a coward?
And as for others tuning each individual sections to equal length on both pipes, go ahead ad list them.
As fo who I really am, those who have bough from me or know me personally through events I've attended know who I am and I couldn't gve a rat's ass for your uncalled for baseless opinion. As the pipes do bolt to the frame with a bracket, as well as tie together in two places, you for suredon't know enough about my pipes to comment o ay aspect of them. Andthe reason you see many oher pipes on Lloydz site is he sells Bassanis, RPWs, and GPIIs, so obviously you'll see moe of them there. I never sid I sell a million of them. I leave that to the big exhaust companies doing mass production pipes with all the welds, uneven steps(if any even exist),andoften crimped bendshidden with full length heat shields. They have thei target market to the masses and I have my target of customers wanting custom hand finished pipes where you can't see any welds. My customers who own them are pretty happy with their pipes and the valu for what they paid, so I'll listen to them versus someone who obviously is not only not a customer, but someone who's got some axe to grind here.
Since I have only built 37 sets of Talons in the first place, and two sets are my own,that's well less than a set per state. You've probablynot seen a set in person and if you did you would see the hand workig of the welds and uderstand why they are more. So tell us,have you seen a set, without stretching the truh here?
As fo the heat shields, whoever contested they were notextra? Dude, why are you picking a fght with me, and making things up as you go along to do it?
 
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