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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have figured out what I want to do with my 2005 vegas for upgrades, but I have a few questions. I am only looking to do torque tubes and a fuel controller. With having the 92" lloydz says keep my cams stock they are good.
So I have heard different opinions on doing a flash.
If I get a controller do I need a flash done?
I can't get a timing wheel since they are no longer made for this bike. Is there a controller I can get to help with timing instead of timing wheel?
Will a fuel controller help much before I put on the torque tubes? (I have stage one flash from factory vented air box k&n air filter and Ness 2 to 1 exhaust.) Or should I wait till I have bought both things to install one?
Thanks in advance!
 

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If your having lloydz do TT ask them about other mods they will give best advise on your setup.
 
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In my opinion you'll want to get a Power Commander III when you install the torque tubes, skip the flash and have the bike dyno tuned right away. The PCIII needs to be tuned, time on a dyno is not cheep, so doing your mods first and having the bike tuned once will save you hundreds.

EDIT: There may be a PCV that now works on our older bikes. At the time when i bought my PCIII only the PCIII worked on bikes before 2008... So I'm not really sure whats going on anymore. You'll have to do more of your own research.
 
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The stock air box isn't bad if you make a hole or two in the front of it. I used a dremel and took out the 'square'.
What do you want out of your bike?? Low end torque, more on the top end, mid range? This will determine what you should do. For my old TCD, I wanted low end torque. I tried the torque tubes, and although they worked better mid and top, they lost on the low end. The stock airbox opened up in the front worked better for that. Lloydz also has an ecm that he has reflashed that has a bit more timing and the fuel has been slightly adjusted. However, if you get one of those it still has to be adjusted with the computer and digital wrench program at idle. If you want low end torque, Rylan has 5 degree offset cam gears.
Right now the TC has over 100 torque at 2200 and goes up to 126 something at 3800. It does have a 100" kit with Lloydz 11:1 pistons. Also S&S stage 3 cams, which aren't a whole lot different than stock with Rylan's offset gears. I made my own torque tubes from mandrel bent tubing that are the same volume and diameter as the stock tubes, just taking the hard 90 degree bend out. So, it has toms of low and midrange for a 100", but once past 5000 rpm, pretty much starts dyeing out. But I never ran it that fast anyways. I can short shift riding double with luggage and leave most HD's in the dust when they are solo.
 

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No you don't need to reprogram your ecu, the Tubes, a fuel controller, and then. However, you may want to anyway. You can have your ecu reprogrammed with advanced timing for about the same cost as a timing wheel and this will also raise the rev limiter.
 

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Never heard anyone show/say that the LOST torque on the low end w/ the TTi intake..

I didn't think they could do the ECU reprogram on bikes before 2008? Something to do with the open loop vs closed loop.. not sure on that one.

Easiest upgrades.. you don't really need a cam if you're just going to do intake/exhaust and fuel tuner.. best thing for that bike after that (IMO) is the 100" kit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The stock air box isn't bad if you make a hole or two in the front of it. I used a dremel and took out the 'square'.
What do you want out of your bike?? Low end torque, more on the top end, mid range? This will determine what you should do.
I want good torque across the whole curve. As it is I can feel my bike pulling the front tire when I hit second when I'm really hammering. From the different dyno graphs I've looked at and the research I have done so far I see the torque tubes are good for that. I love my bike the way it runs now I just want a little more pep (not that it really needs it.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
No you don't need to reprogram your ecu, the Tubes, a fuel controller, and then. However, you may want to anyway. You can have your ecu reprogrammed with advanced timing for about the same cost as a timing wheel and this will also raise the rev limiter.
So just to verify and make sure I understand correctly. The tuner really is to adjust the fuel air ratio so the bike is getting the perfect mix for the setup of the bike. The ECU flash actually reprograms the ECU allowing you to change settings like you mentioned advancing the timing and raising the rev limiter?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Never heard anyone show/say that the LOST torque on the low end w/ the TTi intake..

I didn't think they could do the ECU reprogram on bikes before 2008? Something to do with the open loop vs closed loop.. not sure on that one.

Easiest upgrades.. you don't really need a cam if you're just going to do intake/exhaust and fuel tuner.. best thing for that bike after that (IMO) is the 100" kit.
I emailed Lloydz and they said they could flash my ECU for $200
 

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So just to verify and make sure I understand correctly. The tuner really is to adjust the fuel air ratio so the bike is getting the perfect mix for the setup of the bike. The ECU flash actually reprograms the ECU allowing you to change settings like you mentioned advancing the timing and raising the rev limiter?
Sorry, fat fingers, small phone, and auto correct made my prior post confusing. First thing is most of my advice relates to technology that was available up to a year or so ago. Something new may effect this advice. Bikes made prior to 2008 have a different fuel injection system so tech has different capabilities for pre or post 2008. On the older models you are correct, the fuel programmer is to adjust the amount of fuel to match the air capacity of a new intake. As of my last understanding there were basically two types of ecu reprogramming, factory and aftermarket. But reprogramming isn't actual tuning. So a factory stage 1 reflash, done by a dealer, would alter the a/f ratio to match the stage 1 filter and pipes. Or aftermarket programs like Lloyd's adds X amount of fuel and Y amount of timing. No adjusting the program to match a different set of pipes or intake.
The way I look at it is the 200 dollar Lloyd's reprogram is good for advancing the timing and raising the redline. Both desirable but not required for an intake swap. You still need to tune the a/f ratio to your set up. Now some of the stuff I'm hearing about new stuff like the Maximus tuner is that you can do both at the ecu with one device, but again I don't THINK that applies to pre 08.
 
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I talked to Danny at Lloydz a few months ago and he was recommending the ECU re-flash over the timing wheel on our 92" bikes. I'm doing both the PTS wheel and the ECU flash because this winter I'm going for the TTI, 100" bore kit and high-comp pistons :) I want the revs that the ECU flash frees up. Even though it's a PITA to adjust the pre-'08 wheel I want the ability to make adjustments. One thing I note Dave is that you don't have a fuel-tuner yet. I highly recommend a PC-III. Right now I have a stock V92TC with the vented cover, K&N and a variation on the "thrush-mod" done to the factory pipes. You are so close to Lloyd's place it would be awesome to get him to dyno your bike. I had my local guy do mine this spring. Made a huge difference. See the dyno chart. Yours might not be as pronounced as you already have a S1 flash... but still...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I talked to Danny at Lloydz a few months ago and he was recommending the ECU re-flash over the timing wheel on our 92" bikes. I'm doing both the PTS wheel and the ECU flash because this winter I'm going for the TTI, 100" bore kit and high-comp pistons :) I want the revs that the ECU flash frees up. Even though it's a PITA to adjust the pre-'08 wheel I want the ability to make adjustments. One thing I note Dave is that you don't have a fuel-tuner yet. I highly recommend a PC-III. Right now I have a stock V92TC with the vented cover, K&N and a variation on the "thrush-mod" done to the factory pipes. You are so close to Lloyd's place it would be awesome to get him to dyno your bike. I had my local guy do mine this spring. Made a huge difference. See the dyno chart. Yours might not be as pronounced as you already have a S1 flash... but still...
So I am guessing to do the flash I would need to take my bike physically there not something that could be done remotely. As they are reprogramming the bikes actual computer.
 

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You can physically take the ECM off the bike and mail it to Lloydz. He can reflash the ECM and send it back. I had mine done that way. That said, it needed a baseline set. That is done at idle with an O2 sensor in the exhaust and adjusted with the digital wrench program. The whole program in the ECM is based on that initial tune. Made a huge difference in mine. Then, add the VFC-3, or in my case, I put a dobeck gen 4 on it. It works really good for the most part, other than WOT after a few seconds wants to lean out. I need to check as there may be a reflash for that unit as well. Yes, the TTi from Lloydz did reduce the very low end torque. Even Lloyd said for my bike, being heavy and riding two up with luggage, the stock air box would perform better for that low end torque. Which is why I made my own version of the TTi, smoothing out the 90 degree bends and getting the air box out of there. Has a couple of K&Ns on it. Works good for what I want. On a lighter bike, loss of a little low end probably isn't that big a deal. Had mine tuned by KevinX and he said at the time, it was one of the strongest running 100 inch bikes he's ridden. He said he was pulling wheelies on the TC at 2500 rpm going into second. Again, you need to figure out what you want and then get the right stuff... Talk to Lloyd or Rylan. They do this stuff all the time. Whatever you want and whatever parts and pieces you get need to compliment each other to achieve the results you want. How much do you want to spend? LOL!!
 

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RideNH,
Like you I am relatively new to my 'classic' Victory. If you look at some of the posts from Linerider, Iabob and HalfCrazy... to name a few, we can tiptoe into these performance mods a little at a time or save up for a bit and go all-in. My last bike I had until 130,000 miles. Only toward the end of owning it did I start performance upgrades and I kept saying, "I wish I'd done this years ago!". This time around I am saving up my coins (actually doing a monthly installment plan with Rylan at the Vic Shop) and going big all at once.

It sounds like you are in for the PC-III, ECM re-flash, TTI and dyno tuning anyway... going big-bore while you're there is only a couple paychecks further away. Come follow me down the path to the crazy-train. I think Rylan still has another 100" kit on the shelf or if you can handle iron liners and forged pistons Lloyd has a 104" motor for you. :-D
 
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Talking to Lloyd goes like this:

Me: How much power are we talking about here?
Lloyd: PLENTY!
Me: What's this going to cost me?
Lloyd: A LOT!
Me: Ok, do it.
Lloyd: Can you leave a deposit?
Me: Is three grand in cash good? That's all I have on me.
Lloyd: That'll do.

And then I get home....
Puss: If you put another motor in that bike I'm outta here!
Lorenzo: I'm really gonna miss you, Puss.

If you wanna rock-n-roll, ya gotta pay the mutha f**kin' band. How much rock-n-roll do you want, and how badly do you want it?
There's no replacement for displacement.... in cubic dollars.
 

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Mention Voldemort's name and he is summoned. :D I kind of feel like I'm cheating. I bought the bike for under $5k. If I sink another $2k into it I get to wrench on it in the garage with my kids, take it down to the dyno guy and blow the chrome off my Father-in-law's HD that he spent cubic dollars on and it still only makes double-digit HP. My only regret is that I already paid to dyno it once and then decided that I wanted more. Don't be like me RideNH, spring for all your mods at once!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Mention Voldemort's name and he is summoned. :D I kind of feel like I'm cheating. I bought the bike for under $5k. If I sink another $2k into it I get to wrench on it in the garage with my kids, take it down to the dyno guy and blow the chrome off my Father-in-law's HD that he spent cubic dollars on and it still only makes double-digit HP. My only regret is that I already paid to dyno it once and then decided that I wanted more. Don't be like me RideNH, spring for all your mods at once!
I was thinking the same thing when so shortly after you mentioned him, HC responded haha. I guess that means I cheated too lol I got my vegas for $4k a few months ago. I don't know if I will be able to spring all at once so I'll have to work my way through. I'm going to lie to myself and say I'll be satisfied once I get my few mods. I also have a few nonperformance/ customizing I want to do. Plus I hope not to get divorced through all of it too...:biggrin::biggrin: haha
 
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