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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can our goverment really run health care? Let's take a look at a few other things they run/ran.

* The U.S. Post Service was established in 1775. You have had 234 years to get it right. It is unionized and it is broke while private enterprise companies FedEx and UPS flourish and this is a monopoly.
* Social Security was established in 1935. You have had 74 years to get it right and it is broke and beyond actuarial repair.
* Fannie Mae was established in 1938. You have had 71 years to get it right and, as recently as 2005, members of Congress blocked attempts at reform. Its much publicized 2008 collapse torpedoed the housing industry and raped the tax payers.
* Freddie Mac was established in 1970. You have had 39 years to get it right and it is broke. See above
* War on Poverty started in 1964. You have had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to "the poor" while their ranks have grown exponentially. Out of wedlock births now account for half of all live births.
* Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965. You have had 44 years to get it right while its cost to current tax payers has ballooned, and to future generations is beyond comprehension.
* The Department of Energy was created in 1977 to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. It has ballooned to 16,000 employees with a budget of
$24 billion a year, and we import more oil than ever before. Nuclear plants are being built everywhere in the Industrialized world but the US. Congress continues to block oil and gas exploration while our economic competitors explore vigorously using new extraction techniques.
You had 32 years to get it right and it is an abysmal failure.
* You nationalized passenger rail service in 1970 with the creation of Amtrak. Not once in any year since then has Amtrak made a profit. You've had 39 years to get it right; yet unionized Amtrak is still broke.
Thoughts?
 

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Without getting political, here's the way I've been thinking about it:

My litmus test was the H1 N1 Flu Shots. If they can't handle that properly, how can they run the entire health care system?

I will state my opinion that the cost of health care is astronomical, but am unsure whether a Government run program is the proper long term solution.

Just my two cents.
 

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The answer is no. The only thing I would be interested in would be getting less expensive HC for those that want to retire early. People that have paid a ton of taxes and SS should not have to wait until 65 to get **** coverage. I would take the **** coverage now and get a supplement.
 

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We already have socialized health, its called Medicare. It is basically broke.

Medicaid has ballooned in size because of the welfare state and the no daddy babies.

So the very old get Medicare and the very poor get Medicaid. Everybody in between gets to pay for it all.

As a baby boomer at age 58 I have no idea how my kids are going to ever afford us. Medicare will triple in the next 10 years.

I did notice though, the start date on all the new health bills is 2012-2013. After the presidential election so those that did it get to keep their seats. Even they know it won't work so the start date should be called the incumbent protection clause.
 

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Healthcare for profit is wrong !!!
If you don't want it government run. Then it needs to be very regulated, as to be affordable to all.
Watch the movie Sicko. See how France, England, and Canada have thier healthcare systems. Non is perfect, but I won't go broke if I get sick, and I don't have to sell my home to pay for medical expenses.
Our system is far from perfect, but I prefer it over the American system anyday.
Just my 0.02
 

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Can the government run healthcare? Of course it can, the question is can it run it well? Actually, the government "runs" Medicare and SS very efficently. The problem is that Congress has used them as political payoffs to various constituents with figuring out how to pay for it. Another problem is that some doctors resist taking Medicare patients because they believe that what they receive is too low.

Frankly, I don't care if we have a government option or not. I'm lucky enough to have access to good care. Additionally, I understand why many people are reluctant to turn it over the government.

However, on the the 'big lies' of the debate is to say that those with government managed care in other countries don't like it and envy the US system. Although there are instances in which these government programs have failed, for the most part these people are very happy. How do I know? I've been to these countries over the years and have talked to people about it. Rather than envy us, they ask me how can I stand our system.

Additionally, did you realize that many Americans travel to other parts fo the world to have serious operations. Its called 'medical tourism'. As an example, check the site below.

http://www.recoverdiscover.com/
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Putter, but it also works in reverse, I know many Brit's and Canadian who have come here for surgery. Granted they are the ones that are well off, but if you are well off this is the place to come to get the best treatment. I would also not agree that social security is run well. If me and you took peoples money for 30-40 years and paid them the same interest that we get from the government we would be put in jail for racketeering. Also, why is it that when Galveston, Tx opted out of SS, when it was still legal to do so, that their employees are retiring with 5 times the income as social security recipiants? We have social security in place (as you touched on) as a cash cow for the government to borrow from. Now if they held the funds in a secure account where no other govenment agency could borrow against it I probably would be for it.
http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx?ID=1487
Highway, anything without profit leads to a stagnent profession. If you are not going to make a profit, why pay for research and developement on new medications or sugical equipment? Profit leads to invention... Also, most States already protect your house from any sort of seizure due to medical expenses. In Florida they can go after just about anything except you house even in bankruptcy.
 

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Went to a V.A. Hospital one time and it was a sad site!

It tells me that once the government takes over the rest of the Healthcare out there we ALL will be in for a sad site!

No they can't run Healthcare ..... but, you watch ... they will.

People need to understand that until we all stand up nothing will change!
Remember when it's time to vote ..... Is this the change you all wanted?

Sorry ..... done with my soapbox.
 

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The only thing government is good or efficent at is STEALING,LYING,CHEATING,BRIBE TAKING,BUCK-PASSING, and various other CRIMINAL ENTERPRIZES. Just look again at the track record of GOVERNMENTS handling of various programs that dsjr70 listed.
So maybe someone will say "well thats the past ,they (GOV.) won't do it again because WE know about it!! WRONG!!!!,
The T.A.R.P. bill & the STIMULIS BILL, have spent more money than ALL U.S. spending (INCLUDING ALL WARS & SOCIAL PROGRAMS COMBINED) since george washington thru bush. (YET THE F&%$#%$ IDIOTS NEVER READ THE BILL--But rushed to sign it.
The people running washington are the Most efficent CRIMINALS in our history, and they wont stop untill we have a hammer & sickle as our flag.
Just look at the CZAR'S that have been appointed, they hate america,hate free enterprize-capitalism,hate free speach(fox news-talk radio)hate freedom of choice, and hate EVERYTHING that has made America a great & prosperous & free nation.
Then who do they side with as allies???, Iran, Venuzalea,russia,china, kadaffe,
Government has allways be ineffecient ( because theres no accountability), But the Clowns we now have make Benedict Arnold look like a saint
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
It all boils down to the re-distribution of wealth... I wish it would be required reading to read Ayn Rand but that will never happen in government run schools... Oh, I forgot about that, look at the schools systems...
 

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advntrus said:
Putter said:
Can the government run healthcare? Of course it can, the question is can it run it well? Actually, the government "runs" Medicare and SS very efficently. The problem is that Congress has used them as political payoffs to various constituents with figuring out how to pay for it. Another problem is that some doctors resist taking Medicare patients because they believe that what they receive is too low.
I'm confused. First you point out that the government is running Medicare and SS "Efficiently". Then you give two reasons why Government ISN'T running them efficiently.
So........Now you wantall of us to have the people at DMV and the POST OFFICE squeze our balls and tell us to cough?
No thanks. I'll stick with my private plan, AND my private parts.
Shawn
You misunderstood what I meant by efficent. Regarding processing requests, sending out the checks, etc, ie 'running' the program, the governmnt does it very well. The problem is that Congress has used these programs and others as political payoffs and ways to buy votes without have the courage to pay for them. Their willingness to add the the national debt has been a problem for decades.

We were starting to get a handle on it when Newt Gingrich was Speaker of the House. When W took office, the betrayal of fiscal conservative ideals began. The Republican Congress and W sold out all of us that put them in office. Congress spent money like crazy and W never vetoed anything for the first 6 years in office. The problem continues today.

I really don't think it can change until we can get the lobbyist out of the way. There is one way to do it but we seem to be unwilling to do it, public financing of elections. There are all kinds of Constitional issues that make it difficult if not impossible. That's another thread.
 

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Simply no. They have demonstrated that they cannot (911, Katrina, Flu shots, Medicare, USPS, Soc Sec etc.) They do however when the issue suits their needs! I do believe that the heathcare, drugand insurance industries are in need of controls and legislation. Big business and greed is out of control. As per usual the big companies bribe donate campaign contributions to businessmen politicians in or running for office. After being laid off I am being expected to pay $582 a month for health coverage under Cobra. With a Mortgage and child support that ain't gonna happen. I hope I do not have any issues until I get a new job. Thanks Uncle Sam!
Our government is inept, corrupt and amazingly continues to convince the sheep of this country that the government is for the people. Yeah-right. If it keeps going they are gonna see sheep turn into wolves.
I am one slip away from bankrupcy and what scares me is this countrymight betoo.
 

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The Medicare fraud/waste does not surprise me. Government programs are unregulated BS. Case in point, my daughter recently bought a house, first time home buyer and qualifies for the $8k "tax credit". I called the accountant that did her taxes for '08 (he does mine, my biz and my son's, get s a bunch of money from us yearly) and asked him to get what we neded to amend "08 taxes so she see her "credit" asap. She wil receive a check from Treasury Department for the full $8k. He called me to tell me he was dropping the papers off at my office for my duaghter...then told me he didn't believe or maybe was amazed at the lack of documentation required. No closing statements, no copies of anything fromt he closing, just the amendment form and a copy of lastyears taxes, sign and send..wait for check. He claimed he has read of yuong kids getting refund checks.
So to answer the question posed at the top of this thread..not only no but hell no.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Putter said:
We were starting to get a handle on it when Newt Gingrich was Speaker of the House. When W took office, the betrayal of fiscal conservative ideals began. The Republican Congress and W sold out all of us that put them in office. Congress spent money like crazy and W never vetoed anything for the first 6 years in office. The problem continues today.
I think your off by a few years, that happened with a Democratic Congress under Reagan not GW. GW was just a wimp to Congress..
 
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