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Motor vibration causes and fix

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Well here we go again. Yep my 11XC is exhibiting a vibration when good and warmed up. When I rev the noise increases with it. When I ride and pull hard it turns into a sort of loud rattle.
So before we go into this I have checked and tightened everything from exhaust flanges to exhaust heat shield clamps. This is definitely inside the motor and the best part is I hear it in both jugs leaving me wondering if I have a cam chain issue or a cam chain adjuster issue.
There’s some minor decel popping. The timing is at 1* advanced and there’s no detonation. The bike is strong and pulls hard till you get around 4500 and go up in rpm. In the upper gears it feels a little flat. Riding with a little aggression and shifting up from a stop with 4k rpm shifts the bike is great and pulls strong. Taking to 5k is when it starts this vibrating rattle feel and sound. Yes a slight vibration os felt in the bars and floor boards but it’s slight.

I know these things are hard to diagnose. Engine noises are common on these OHC motors but having two bikes I actually have something to compare to.
My 11 just sounds like it’s more loose than my 16X1. This is obvious for the mileage difference yet the 11 has way more internal noise than the X1.

Is it possible that there’s a bad cam chain tensioner ? Letting the cam chain rattle a bit when she’s really spinning ?
Hopefully Noemntz ( Noe Martinez ) sees this and can chime in. Hate bugging him privately. He’s very busy and glad he is with his now full time at the shop !
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Discussion Starter · #41 · (Edited)
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This is the new set as I received them. Had to clean them up. They were in the 2017 Gunner when it was in a fire. Not sure why they sent me 6 nuts. Not even sure why they sent these in a bag all covered in a wet sooty substance but hey ….. $15 ? I cleaned them and soaked in Spectro oil prior to installation. Like new again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
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These 2 pics show ( yellow arrow) the play on the inner sleeve of the rear tensioner. I Havnt figured out how to send a video of what your seeing. It’s a substantial amount of play compared to the front one.
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Discussion Starter · #43 · (Edited)
In conclusion to this issue I will tell you this. Watch what you buy on line used. I’ve seen a couple of complete kits on eBay $85 showing the older original tensioners and studying the photos there is one that shows the extended or worn sleeve as I have shown. ( to be determined) To this day I do not know if this is normal and no one can answer as to if it is. I took a gamble on pulling my tensioners and discovered that although they are identical the rear had what I call slop.

There are 2 short videos only on YouTube for reference of this slop and so I followed suit as this being an issue even with no conclusion on the videos if this is a normal operation of the tensioner or not. If this is actually a problem ? Yet they both stated new and unusual engine noise leading them to investigate as did I.
Then speaking with Noe I remember him saying a bad tensioner can cause timing issues. ( Obviously a bad tensioner can exist ) Something I have been dealing with making adjustments to my Lloydz wheel quite a bit trying to correct. Lately hearing more decel pop and hearing more mechanical engine noise leading to vibration and what sounded like a loose chain rattle to me. Reduced timing to 1* advance and the only change was I got rid of detonation up top and under load.

Then came the questioning of these new pieces being different than the old parts to which the only answer (From Lloydz) is that Victory decided to switch vendors along the way. Why ? What year ? Not sure. Noe wasn’t sure but did say there should be no issue using the new parts and luckily he found them for me. The man is a savior for us !!!

So after they arrived….I looked at the two new pieces and found them identical with only one piece having an “R” stamped on it and the other a thick rubber sleeve on the piston ( for front cylinder). The front cylinder on our older models with the older tensioners has a rubber piece inside of the front cylinder that must be removed prior to installing the next generation tensioner. What a PITA it was getting that rubber out. The rubber sleeve on the new tensioner comes on the tensioner so no need to use the old piece.
Installing the tensioner takes a bit of finger strength with one hand to hold and push into the cylinder while with the other hand you are trying to thread it in being careful not to cross thread. Have patience here. The front one is much easier.

There were no oil leaks when I started the motor. I noticed immediately that it sounded quieter and smoother. ( cam chains ? ) The Valves had their normal sewing machine sound and letting the bike warm up there was no change in the new quiet sound. Revs fine.

I’m looking forward to a little Friday hooky and riding it today. I have 1000 miles on the 20/50 Spectro so I may just change it when I return and go back to the 20/40 semi synthetic. Weather is cooler and I hate to waste oil on an early change but peace of mind goes far with me.

In ending I will say that if the old tensioners are a problem then I can see that the new tensioners are different for good reason. They don’t have that inner sleeve that the piston and spring set into. The plunger on the new piece is beefier and the whole piece is lighter than the new one.

Why does Polarass not have these parts old and new available is the question. Is it because they don’t see the need to stock it ? Or is it that it is a failure issue and they are sold out of the part. No answer on this one. I think they need to be contacted as they still owe us parts for 10 yrs by law and this is obviously one that needs to be available. Why stock all the other parts to the cam chain assembly and not have the tensioners ?? Makes no sense other than the tensioner (old generation ) is the weak link in the cam timing system.
Hope this helps. I’ll post later after my ride today.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Hey fellas …..I’m out riding. Took a lunch break. Bikes great. Motors sounding pretty good. Responsive once again and even at 1* advanced timing. Not thinking I’m going to change that cause after 2500 rpm there’s enough timing up top in Kyle’s PC5 tune to keep it well motivated which I found out getting next to my buddies Maximus tuned bike ( yes Noe Martinez) …. Same cams …..and we were neck and neck. Last time we rode he pulled me good. Stay tuned.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 · (Edited)
Can’t believe this is happening again. Seems I have a familiar noise that has returned. Some may remember my blown head gasket issue. Caused by a stripped stud in bottom of the rear cylinder base. Fixed by using a Timesert ( updated helicoil).
something I’ve never been able to fully correct after that repair was the detonation issue. Sure it got better after the replacement head gasket but at times during high heat and loaded down it would show itself. So this last issue with the rear cam chain tensioner going bad caused my timing to be erratic and detonation as well as engine noise became more noticeable. After figuring that out a set of 2017 tensioners as mentioned above fixed the timing and detonation. Quieted the motor down but let me hear what I believe is the start of another blown gasket. Detonation / pinging can play havoc with a combustion engine and yes a blown head gasket can be the result if not tended to.

Not as loud of a chatter like my original discovery last year but the familiar sound that I listened to over and over again in the past won’t let me think it could be anything else. Imagine my being when I first heard it. Yeah this blows.

I will remove the rocker covers and double check my head fasteners. I’m hoping I don’t find another stripped stud and maybe just a snugging up of the fasteners ( wishful thinking) is all that is needed but this likely won’t be the case. If all is tight then I’ll know the integrity of the aluminum block is good and unfortunately I will have to remove the heads and replace the gaskets.
I’ll have head gaskets ready to go and if one is discovered bad then we know. If this is the case then likely the cause is as mentioned due to faulty timing from tensioner. Stay tuned for the drama as it unfolds. It will take time to get started on this. I’m busy and waiting for oem parts is extended for some reason.
 

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Can’t believe this is happening again. Seems I have a familiar noise that has returned. Some may remember my blown head gasket issue. Caused by a stripped stud in bottom of the rear cylinder base. Fixed by using a Timesert ( updated helicoil).
something I’ve never been able to fully correct after that repair was the detonation issue. Sure it got better after the replacement head gasket but at times during high heat and loaded down it would show itself. So this last issue with the rear cam chain tensioner going bad caused my timing to be erratic and detonation as well as engine noise became more noticeable. After figuring that out a set of 2017 tensioners as mentioned above fixed the timing and detonation. Quieted the motor down but let me hear what I believe is the start of another blown gasket. Detonation / pinging can play havoc with a combustion engine and yes a blown head gasket can be the result if not tended to.

Not as loud of a chatter like my original discovery last year but the familiar sound that I listened to over and over again in the past won’t let me think it could be anything else. Imagine my being when I first heard it. Yeah this blows.

I will remove the rocker covers and double check my head fasteners. I’m hoping I don’t find another stripped stud and maybe just a snugging up of the fasteners ( wishful thinking) is all that is needed but this likely won’t be the case. If all is tight then I’ll know the integrity of the aluminum block is good and unfortunately I will have to remove the heads and replace the gaskets.
I’ll have head gaskets ready to go and if one is discovered bad then we know. If this is the case then likely the cause is as mentioned due to faulty timing from tensioner. Stay tuned for the drama as it unfolds. It will take time to get started on this. I’m busy and waiting for oem parts is extended for some reason.
Sorry to hear you're having more problems. Have you done a compression check? That may indicate a blown head gasket. Can you pull a head without taking the motor completely out?
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Sorry to hear you're having more problems. Have you done a compression check? That may indicate a blown head gasket. Can you pull a head without taking the motor completely out?
I’ve ordered both base and head gaskets. New rings as well. The cylinders will be honed and we should be good.
 
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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Nope, engine has to come out.
On my last adventure I was able to remove the rear cylinder completely. I didn’t need to do the front cylinder at that time but I plan on removing both. Are you saying the front cylinder cannot be removed without removing the motor ?
 
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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Here is how it was done a year ago. Split the bike at the frame raising the backbone. I used a come along suspended from a ceiling Cross truss.
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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Not sure why the pics posted twice. Either way I’m going for it with the up most confidence that it can be done. Noe says it can by splitting the bike. Of course last year I was only dealing with the rear cylinder.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Well this weekend the surgery will happen. New base and head gaskets. New rings piston top cleaning ( removing carbon deposits ) Hoping my valve train is in good working order. If not the project stops and new rockers will be ordered. Not screwing around this time. I’ll rebuild the whole top of the motor if I have to. Also hoping I have no stripped studs in the block. That would suck but I’m prepared with a timesert kit and some new studs if need be.
 

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Well this weekend the surgery will happen. New base and head gaskets. New rings piston top cleaning ( removing carbon deposits ) Hoping my valve train is in good working order. If not the project stops and new rockers will be ordered. Not screwing around this time. I’ll rebuild the whole top of the motor if I have to. Also hoping I have no stripped studs in the block. That would suck but I’m prepared with a timesert kit and some new studs if need be.
Maybe freshen up the heads?
At least lap the valves?
 

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Maybe freshen up the heads?
At least lap the valves?
Nice grind job maybe…Am sure will get the proper inspection/ maintenance but carrier grind / 504’s? Just trying to help slick spend money though, why would ya when already have 501’s
 

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Well this weekend the surgery will happen. New base and head gaskets. New rings piston top cleaning ( removing carbon deposits ) Hoping my valve train is in good working order. If not the project stops and new rockers will be ordered. Not screwing around this time. I’ll rebuild the whole top of the motor if I have to. Also hoping I have no stripped studs in the block. That would suck but I’m prepared with a timesert kit and some new studs if need be.
If you haven't ripped into it yet I still think a compression test would be useful.
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 · (Edited)
Job is done. We found a loose stud nut in the front cylinder. Not sure how or why but definitely the reason for the cylinder leakage that I’ve come so accustomed to hearing and identifying. Man I’m getting good at this noise identification thing.
Rockers are good. Valves are good. Surprised actually at how clean everything was. Piston tops were cleaned. Cylinders were honed creating a nice cross hatch. Surfaces sanded on a hard flat surface using wet dry 600. Finally new rings installed. All studs were tested and back together she went this time with Loc-Tite on the threads.
What a process. Hope I never have to do this again. She fired and ran so Smoothly. Like a new motor. Tomorrow I’ll ride it and see how she does.
Se we have a new clutch, ratchet shifter, regulator, battery, sound system, including amp, head unit and 4 new speakers. tires, brakes and now rebuilt top of motor including a new updated set of tensioners
I’d say it’s time to ride it.
 
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