[Chattanooga_Mark]

@Army Tanker, thank you for keeping this thread and the topic alive! These ‘bagger’ races are just about as exciting as motorcycle racing gets. Thank you sir!

 

[Army Tanker]

@Army Tanker, thank you for keeping this thread and the topic alive! These ‘bagger’ races are just about as exciting as motorcycle racing gets. Thank you sir!

You're very welcome, @Chattanooga_Mark ! I'm glad that you an others are enjoying this thread and topic as much as I am. And I am glad that the MotoAmerica King Of The Baggers race series has now become an enduring, annual, race series, so much so that many other "go-fast" type motorcycle racers (sport bike racers) are now coming over to race bagger bikes.

 

[Army Tanker]

65
.
While I'm waiting for the King of the Baggers Race 2 at Daytona that will air at roughly 4:00 PM today, I thought go and see a matinee showing the movie entitled, 65. It combines two genres that I really enjoy: futuristic sci-fi and prehistoric dinosaurs. I hope it is a good movie.
.

 

[crosscountryla]

 

[KeepRidin!]

Well, Indian sure got spanked today.

 

[MoRider]

Here's the reason why the Induan factory teams ran so bad in race 2 according to Indians Instagram page.

 

[MagVic CCT]

I'd be looking for a new tire sponser.

 

[Army Tanker]

So... here's my question: why are H-D bagger race bikes allowed to run 131 crate motors, but Indian bagger race bikes limited to 118 or 119 motors? I understand that air cooled engines don't run as efficiently as water cooled engines, but come on! 131 versus 118 or 119?!? Really?!? And, besides, it's my understanding that H-D bagger racer bikes are running some sort of radiator behind the front fairing screen, though I don't know if that is true.

 

[Chattanooga_Mark]

H-D is by far the biggest and the baddest 'bagger' manufacturer there is. Therefore, they tend to get the stipulations in the rules they want and need. If H-D backed out from the baggers racing genre, the entire series would fold like a house of cards. The better option would be for the series to open the genre up to any V-Twin/Twin bagger regardless of the manufacturer.

In fairness, if Indian pulled out I also suspect the bagger racing genre would become quite boring.

A few years ago when Indian went dirt track racing, they dominated and frankly humiliated H-D who, for the most part, had that genre all to themselves. I haven't heard or read anything about dirt track racing for a while so I have no idea what the current status is.

I suspect H-D will do whatever they have to to prevent another humiliating defeat in racing from Indian. Therefore, I don't expect the rules to be completely 'fair' between H-D and Indian.

Indian has an oil/air cooled pushrod V-Twin. Are they even running one from the factory? No idea. Is anyone racing in this series with a bored out air/oil cooled PowerPlus Indian anything? Again, no idea. If they are, they're nowhere near competitive and are simply being used to help fill the grid.

H-D most certainly has 4 valve water cooled head motors. Are those bikes limited to the same cubic inch displacement as the four valve water cooled head Indian motors? Nope.

I also don't understand blaming tires for not being competitive in a race. The entire series is, in part, sponsored by Dunlop so all the bikes are using the same tire.

 

[MoRider]

So... here's my question: why are H-D bagger race bikes allowed to run 131 crate motors, but Indian bagger race bikes limited to 118 or 119 motors? I understand that air cooled engines don't run as efficiently as water cooled engines, but come on! 131 versus 118 or 119?!? Really?!? And, besides, it's my understanding that H-D bagger racer bikes are running some sort of radiator behind the front fairing screen, though I don't know if that is true.

The water cooled DOHC 112 Challenger engines are more efficient than the Harleys 131engines at making hp. Just look at Indians own line up to see the difference. The 108 makes 125 hp 130 lbs and the 116 TS makes 89 hp and 125 ftlbs. It's called Thermal Expansion. Air cooled engines have à lot more which robs power due to reduced piston speeds. The water cooled heads are only around the exhaust ports and is not for performance gains but for longevity of the exhaust valves.

 

[Army Tanker]

I get it, loud and clear: the biggest, baddest, player on the playing field is allowed to have rules that favors that player, or else that player might get hurt feelings and wind up taking its ball and walking off the playing field to head home with its ball.

But why stop there? Let's further appease the biggest and baddest. Let's let 'em develope, engineer, and run with a 531 crate motor? Why stop at merely a 131 crate motor? Let's let 'em always run a bagger race from the pole position, qualifying times-oriented starting grid line-up be damned. Let's rename the "King of the Baggers" series of races as the "Harley-Davidson Is The King of the Baggers" series of races, and permanently annoint a Harley-Davidson as the winner of every baggers race before each bagger race is ever run. Let's have all of the bagger race track marshals wear only Harley-Davidson branded apparel when pulling duty on the corners and starting grid, head to toe: a Harley-Davidson branded hat, a Harley-Davidson branded pair of sunglasses, a Harley-Davidson branded shirt and safety vest, Harley-Davidson branded marshaling flags, Harley-Davidson branded pants and belt, Harley-Davidson branded underwear, Harley-Davidson branded socks, and Harley-Davidson branded shoes. Let's change the generally accepted definition of the word, "fair," to whatever is corporately acceptable to Harley-Davidson. Let's rename this site from "theVOG.net" to "TheRidersWhoShouldHavePurchasedHarleys.net." Okay... obviously this entire paragraph is laced with outlandish sarcasm, and none of this paragraph will ever happen. I just went-off on a little sarcastic rant here.

Sorry 'bout that. Won't happen again. I swear on a stack of Harley-Davidson motorcycle catalogs that it won't happen again. 😎

 

[MoRider]

I get it, loud and clear: the biggest, baddest, player on the playing field is allowed to have rules that favors that player, or else that player might get hurt feelings and wind up taking its ball and walking off the playing field to head home with its ball.

But why stop there? Let's further appease the biggest and baddest. Let's let 'em develope, engineer, and run with a 531 crate motor? Why stop at merely a 131 crate motor? Let's let 'em always run a bagger race from the pole position, qualifying times-oriented starting grid line-up be damned? Let's rename the "King of the Baggers" series of races as the "Harley-Davidson Is The King of the Baggers" series of races, and permanently annoint a Harley-Davidson as the winner of every baggers race before each bagger race is ever run? Let's have all of the bagger race track marshals wear only Harley-Davidson branded apparel when pulling duty on the corners and starting grid, head to toe: a Harley-Davidson branded hat, a Harley-Davidson branded pair of sunglasses, a Harley-Davidson branded shirt and safety vest, Harley-Davidson marshaling flags, Harley-Davidson branded pants and belt, Harley-Davidson branded underwear, Harley-Davidson branded socks, and Harley-Davidson branded shoes? Let's change the generally accepted definition of the word, "fair," to whatever is corporately acceptable to Harley-Davidson? Let's rename this site from "theVOG.net" to "TheRidersWhoShouldHavePurchasedHarleys.net." Okay... obviously this entire paragraspeedsph is laced with outlandish sarcasm, and none of this paragraph will ever happen. I just went-off on a little sarcastic rant here.

Sorry 'bout that. Won't happen again. I swear on a stack of Harley-Davidson motorcycle catalogs that it won't happen again. 😎

The engines are producing similar horsepower. The Indians are getting beat end the corners and under braking due to chassis flex. In a podcast Tyler O'Hara said that's a problem they needed to fix. Remember Indians have higher top speeds

 

[Army Tanker]

A couple of ride buddies and I are giving serious thought to taking a day trip from northern Virginia to the New Jersey Motorsports Park on either Saturday September 23rd or Sunday September 24th to check out the baggers and their riders in person. The weekend of September 22nd to 24th is the final baggers race weekend for the 2023 season. For us, it's only between 2 hours and 2 hours 40 minutes on the road, and only between 170 and 200 miles one way. That's an easy day trip if we decide to ride there as opposed to drive there. I think it would be cool as hell to see those bagger racing bikes up close and personal when they open pit lane to the spectators during lunch break on either that Saturday or that Sunday.

 

[Army Tanker]

A couple of ride buddies and I are giving serious thought to taking a day trip from northern Virginia to the New Jersey Motorsports Park on either Saturday September 23rd or Sunday September 24th to check out the baggers and their riders in person. The weekend of September 22nd to 24th is the final baggers race weekend for the 2023 season. For us, it's only between 2 hours and 2 hours 40 minutes on the road, and only between 170 and 200 miles one way. That's an easy day trip if we decide to ride there as opposed to drive there. I think it would be cool as hell to see those bagger racing bikes up close and personal when they open pit lane to the spectators during lunch break on either that Saturday or that Sunday.

 

[Chattanooga_Mark]

I get it, loud and clear: the biggest, baddest, player on the playing field is allowed to have rules that favors that player, or else that player might get hurt feelings and wind up taking its ball and walking off the playing field to head home with its ball.

But why stop there? Let's further appease the biggest and baddest. Let's let 'em develope, engineer, and run with a 531 crate motor? Why stop at merely a 131 crate motor? Let's let 'em always run a bagger race from the pole position, qualifying times-oriented starting grid line-up be damned. Let's rename the "King of the Baggers" series of races as the "Harley-Davidson Is The King of the Baggers" series of races, and permanently annoint a Harley-Davidson as the winner of every baggers race before each bagger race is ever run Let's have all of the bagger race track marshals wear only Harley-Davidson branded apparel when pulling duty on the corners and starting grid, head to toe: a Harley-Davidson branded hat, a Harley-Davidson branded pair of sunglasses, a Harley-Davidson branded shirt and safety vest, Harley-Davidson branded marshaling flags, Harley-Davidson branded pants and belt, Harley-Davidson branded underwear, Harley-Davidson branded socks, and Harley-Davidson branded shoes. Let's change the generally accepted definition of the word, "fair," to whatever is corporately acceptable to Harley-Davidson. Let's rename this site from "theVOG.net" to "TheRidersWhoShouldHavePurchasedHarleys.net." Okay... obviously this entire paragraph is laced with outlandish sarcasm, and none of this paragraph will ever happen. I just went-off on a little sarcastic rant here.

Sorry 'bout that. Won't happen again. I swear on a stack of Harley-Davidson motorcycle catalogs that it won't happen again. 😎

View attachment 640408

To make it authentic you’ll need to be wearing H-D gloves and put your hand on Screaming Eagle parts books to pledge your allegiance.

Can (does) H-D run their 131 motor, in part, because they offer that as an accessory? Does Polaris offer a factory big bore kit for the Challenger? Of just intake, exhaust and maybe cams?

 

[MoRider]

To make it authentic you’ll need to be wearing H-D gloves and put your hand on Screaming Eagle parts books to pledge your allegiance.

Can (does) H-D run their 131 motor, in part, because they offer that as an accessory? Does Polaris offer a factory big bore kit for the Challenger? Of just intake, exhaust and maybe cams?

Indian is allowed a 112 ci engine in water cooled bikes and a 131 in the air-cooled bikes even though they offer neither.

 

[Army Tanker]

To make it authentic you’ll need to be wearing H-D gloves and put your hand on Screaming Eagle parts books to pledge your allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the Bar and Shield corporate logo, and to their marketing kool-aid of which I drank, and I vow not to wave back at you when I encounter you on the road unless you, too, sit astride an H-D steed, and I promise to have the cleanest, shiniest, low mileage motorbike that my garage has ever kept. In ridiculous Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price plus dealership mark-up cost I pay, amen.

 

[MoRider]

I can see some us are really struggling with our Hatred for Harley lol. Watch some other forms of racing to get a better understanding how racing series work. I suggest you start with the SCCA where the cars are the closest to stock. Since there are so many cars that can fit into one class they might add weight to one car and take weight from another. Then take a look at IMSA where they will even make you run a narrower tire on your Camaro because it has more grip than the mustangs. They also issue restrictor plates if your Corvette has more horsepower than the Porsche 911 Turbo your racing against. Even in other classes in MotoAmerica like Medallia Superbike are highly modified production based liter class bikes that range in 750 cc to 1000cc 3 and 4 clinder engines 850cc to 1200 cc 2 cylinder engines.

 

[Army Tanker]

All very good points, @MoRider . I was just having a little sarcastic fun at Harley's expense. But you bring up very good points. 🙂

 

[Chattanooga_Mark]

That’s some incredible racing, thank you for the post.