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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, just titled the thread so it would show easily in search results.
I also posted here in the Vision Forum since my '17 VV has some quirks it shares with '16 models, namely ECU programming and O2 sensors unique to these two year models. Currently, my O2 sensors are completely removed with emulators installed on the harness leads (got tired of visiting the dealership to clear codes).

After owning since new for 6 months, and logging about 6k miles, the search begins for performance enhancement.
Things I am ruling out as a matter of riding/personal preference. I am NOT interested in:

1. Loud pipes (aviation mechanics hate high decibels after nearly four decades in the industry).
2. Cams. I'm not looking for the highest value recorded on a dyno sheet.
3. Turbo's.
4. Significant reduction (say greater than 2-3) in mpg consumption. Currently 44-45mpg.
5. Lloyds 1/4 Turn. I do a lot of slow speed stuff and want best low throttle control.

So, my intended direction is a Maximus Tuner, Lloyds Upper Intake, and perhaps the baffled Witchdoctor Muscle Mufflers.

The questions are:
1. Is the Witchdoctor Baffled Muscle Muffler a better performing exhaust (more tunable for performance & A/F ratios) than stock OEM?
2. Does someone have a dyno sheet reflecting a comparison of OEM vs Witchdoctors MM Exhaust?
3. Does someone have a dyno sheet reflecting OEM front Intake only vs. adding Lloyds Upper? (Yes I know adding more O2 creates lean and pinging and...)
4. Does the Maximus require O2 sensors be installed for either dyno or remote tune?
5. If the Maximus does require O2 sensors, will '16-'17 OEM sensors work, or will Wide-Band sensors need to be purchased / added?

Overall, this is an amazing bike. The best I've ever ridden. I am happy with its current performance. But I know the lean OEM ECU program is leaving HP/Torque untapped.
 

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I would suggest calling Rylan at The Vic Shop or Kevin at Southern Motorworx. I think a couple of your assumptions are erroneous. For starters, it's oftentimes the exhaust that sacrifices low end Torque for a high peak number on a dyno sheet. Cams, especially grinds like Lloyd's LSC, are very beneficial across the rpm range, including low end. I think you'll find mileage either no different or better, not worse.
 

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5. Lloyds 1/4 Turn. I do a lot of slow speed stuff and want best low throttle control.
Why do you think the 1/4 turn will affect the throttle? All it does is take the slop out. Much easier on your wrist. The bike still only goes as fast as you twist the throttle. Try @crosscountryla about your mufflers. He does the Raggin Cajuns, everyone seems to speak highly of him. Lastly I would get a hold of TVS (The Vic Shop) with your Maximus questions. Ask somebody who"knows" the answers.
 
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@Oldman47 has a similar setup to what you describe. Fuel tuner, stock exhaust, no cams. He got good results.

I've heard the stock exhaust on the Vision can handle the extra flow from the upper intake without needing to be changed out.

I would suggest cams though. You will get used to the added HP & TQ from the above mentioned items pretty quick.

I have a similar setup as well. PCV & timing wheel, top filter, k&n front filter, recored exhaust (not loud at all) and getting 95hp and 109ftlbs. I also average about 45mpg. I will be adding cams within a year.
 

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Personally I think you're making a mistake leaving out Lloydz cams and the 1/4 turn throttle, 2 of my favorite mods. I would go with Lloydz top filter, Maximus tuner, Stealth Gonzo pipes, Lloydz VM1-DR cams and the 1/4 turn throttle. You would have one very sweet running bike.
 

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I think you misunderstood what a 1/4 turn throttle is. It reduces the overall throttle travel by 1/4.
 

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Modifications that people LOVE the most:
1/4 turn throttle
31 tooth front pulley (UD Pulley, stock is 33)
Cams

Almost everyone does exhaust, air filter, and tuner. The best performing exhaust is the stock head pipes (cats and all) and some slip-on mufflers. The mistake people make is using mufflers that are too big in diameter. Keep 'em skinny to keep the torque at the bottom end. The bike does not need to be loud to make power.

Your fear of the 1/4 turn throttle is unfounded. I ride a bike with the 1/4 turn, the pulley making the gearing 7% shorter, the bike weighs less than 700 lbs, and makes 126 ft-lb of torque at 1/2 throttle. The 1/4 turn throttle is not an issue.
 

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Alot of folks worry that the 1/4 turn will be too abrupt, but it's far from it. Makes it perfect, and significantly easier on the wrists.

Reduction gear front pulley is great even on a completely stock bike.
It's a must have.

Definitely need a fuel tuner of some type....PCV and Maximus are the top two. Maximus is the way I'd go if I was starting from scratch.

You are missing out on so much of what makes these engines great if you pass on the cams. They are subtle, but give the bike that little extra something.

I'm with you on the Turbos.

If you get tired of stock pipes look into Triovals.
They have an improved sound without being loud, and they were a factory upgrade.

Never trust the onboard computer for MPG.
Always do hand math, and realize that even a small change in mpg isn't expensive.
At 200 miles/44mpg X 3 bucks per gallon you pay $13.63
At 200 miles/40mpg X 3 bucks per gallon you pay $15.00
$1.37 more. Not gonna break the bank either way!

When it come to air filters the best is Lloydz.
Air filters can add some intake noise that would be more noticeable with a stock exhaust.
 

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Alot of folks worry that the 1/4 turn will be too abrupt, but it's far from it. Makes it perfect, and significantly easier on the wrists.

Reduction gear front pulley is great even on a completely stock bike.
It's a must have.

Definitely need a fuel tuner of some type....PCV and Maximus are the top two. Maximus is the way I'd go if I was starting from scratch.

You are missing out on so much of what makes these engine great if you pass on the cams. They are subtle, but give the bike that little extra something.

I'm with you on the Turbos.

If you get tired of stock pipes look into Triovals.
They have an improved sound without being loud, and they were a factory upgrade.


Never trust the onboard computer for MPG.
Always do hand math, and realize that even a small change in mpg isn't expensive.
At 200 miles/44mpg X 3 bucks per gallon you pay $13.63
At 200 miles/40mpg X 3 bucks per gallon you pay $15.00
$1.37 more. Not gonna break the bank either way!

When it come to air filters the best is Lloydz.
Air filters can add some intake noise that would be more noticeable with a stock exhaust.
I don't think Tri-ovals will work, he has a Vision, not a Cross Country.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The best performing exhaust is the stock head pipes (cats and all) and some slip-on mufflers. The mistake people make is using mufflers that are too big in diameter. Keep 'em skinny to keep the torque at the bottom end. The bike does not need to be loud to make power.
Thanks for answering Q1.
 

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#3 - '08 Vision. Before is with Victory S1L2 exhaust. After is with the addition of a Ness top filter, Maximus, and TVS tune. Per TVS there is negligable difference between Ness and Loydz top filters, but as a matter of full disclosure I changed to a Lloydz when I did cams later on.
View attachment 502845
View attachment 502845
#4 & #5 - TVS used his own sensors on his dyno. I run anound with plugs in the bungs every day. The complexity of doing this without warning lights is greater with newer bikes but I don't know exactly what's involved.

Everyone has their own personal preferences for their own reasons, but I think you're over thinking the 1/4 turn ring. I regilarly do urban rush hour traffic in tour trim with the 1/4 turn, a variable clutch, and a cam that makes the motor more high strung. The throttle is still perfectly linear and if properly tuned and mechanically adjusted isn't twitchy either. I am also heavily considering an underdrive pully this winter.

This thing handles so well it feels intuitive and the super responsive throttle makes the bike feel lighter.

My hand calculated mileage ranges from 32-40 mpg, before and after cams.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I really appreciate all the feedback, experience and opinions shared. My concerns on the 1/4 Throttle Ring are rooted in some posts saying the riders felt the loss of fine throttle control on slow speed stuff. Now others have shared an opposing view, so for $20 it's back on the "to-do" list.

As for the exhaust, spoke with Mike at Gonzo. Like others here have stated, the Stealth are only slightly higher db than OEM.
Regarding my plan, Mike said "Seems you have a great plan. Our Stealth Gonzo mufflers are exactly what we would recommend for you. They are strong on the bottom and mid range and are not overly loud. I am told they disappear at freeway speeds for cruising."

Since I am definitely doing Maximus, I also reached out to Ryan from 801. Caught him as he was cleaning out his Utah shop Friday, and was going to by moved in to TVS by Monday. He liked the plan too and we discussed Dyno vs. Remote tune. I really don't care what a final number is, just enhanced performance, especially down low. He said he can do everything remotely as if he was doing it on a dyno, except push out a piece of paper with a set HP/Torque numbers.

So I'll get the 1/4 Throttle ordered and installed. The Lloyds Upper and Gonzo's will not get ordered and installed until early next year when the profit sharing funds for the Maximus shows up. One shot plot with all the goodies onboard.

Thanks again for all the advice, info and help.
 

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I really appreciate all the feedback, experience and opinions shared. My concerns on the 1/4 Throttle Ring are rooted in some posts saying the riders felt the loss of fine throttle control on slow speed stuff. Now others have shared an opposing view, so for $20 it's back on the "to-do" list.

As for the exhaust, spoke with Mike at Gonzo. Like others here have stated, the Stealth are only slightly higher db than OEM.
Regarding my plan, Mike said "Seems you have a great plan. Our Stealth Gonzo mufflers are exactly what we would recommend for you. They are strong on the bottom and mid range and are not overly loud. I am told they disappear at freeway speeds for cruising."

Since I am definitely doing Maximus, I also reached out to Ryan from 801. Caught him as he was cleaning out his Utah shop Friday, and was going to by moved in to TVS by Monday. He liked the plan too and we discussed Dyno vs. Remote tune. I really don't care what a final number is, just enhanced performance, especially down low. He said he can do everything remotely as if he was doing it on a dyno, except push out a piece of paper with a set HP/Torque numbers.

So I'll get the 1/4 Throttle ordered and installed. The Lloyds Upper and Gonzo's will not get ordered and installed until early next year when the profit sharing funds for the Maximus shows up. One shot plot with all the goodies onboard.

Thanks again for all the advice, info and help.
Let me say that the stock exhaust is under appreciated.
 

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Off topic: 801 is going to work with TVS?
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Let me say that the stock exhaust is under appreciated.
Care to expand on that statement?
I'm not interested in dropping a few hundred bucks for a few measley ponies or foot pounds (like less than 2 - 4 hp/LbsFt).
I am PERFECTLY content with OEM pipe in sound.
Are you saying with the Maximus that OEM exhaust is similar in "tuneability" as the Stealth Gonzo (or most any other quiet slip-on)?
 

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Care to expand on that statement?
I'm not interested in dropping a few hundred bucks for a few measley ponies or foot pounds (like less than 2 - 4 hp/LbsFt).
I am PERFECTLY content with OEM pipe in sound.
Are you saying with the Maximus that OEM exhaust is similar in "tuneability" as the Stealth Gonzo (or most any other quiet slip-on)?
Most other . I have no experience with the Ganzos.
 
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