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I've read comparisons between the two Harley engines.
In this video, the fellows race the two side by side.

What do you think? Is there an aspect not considered? With the M8 going through some growing pains, i.e. low oil pressure and oil sumping, if the TW can hold it's own, a used HD may be a good buy for some that want one.

 

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I didn't watch the whole video but as I've said elsewhere; after riding HD's for 33 years and finding out just how bad HD screwed its customers with the TC engine - I can't own another one even if they fixed all the weak points and bad designs such as the two day job just to replace a rear drive belt. Crazy.

I did find it amusing how a 106 Vic with a Stage 2 w/cams puts the hp and tq above all but the 114ci HD engine and then; only the tq.

Admittedly I know next to nothing about the newer HD engines (post TC). If they still have a press fit crank and cheap small cam chain guides and a half inch of run out tolerances; it isn't something I would want to own.

I bailed on HD because they were under powered and all I could think about was when the engine was going to grenade. Even if they fixed everything that bugged me, including the belt issue, I'd still pass on any HD newer than a 1998. The HD MoCo burned a bridge with a lot of people who have no intention of giving them another dime.

Of course, to be fair, a lot of Victory owners are thinking the same thing about Polaris but for different reasons. I'd love to own a new Indian but after the bending over Polaris did to all of us; I just can't see spending money on a new Indian. They are cost prohibitive anyway. Victory was the best affordable American production motorcycle made and Polaris threw it away like their baby hidden in the dirty bathwater.

A new Harley with an S&S engine and Baker transmission would be something to consider. Alas; there's still that subpar suspension to consider.
 

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Lone Rider of the Apocolypse
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If I ever get the idea to even consider a Harley all I have to do is watch a video of that horrible crank setup and I am instantly cured. Even the new M8s don't really impress me because it doesn't seem like they really fixed that problem. Polaris isn't a whole lot better. Sure, the crank is very nice but then they go ahead and put in tooth picks for connecting rods in there! And anyway, it's Polaris, so the point is moot. Neither one gets my money.

And if that wasn't enough all I need to do is go look at one and then read the price tag. That'll make me run out the door, not walk.
 

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...... Polaris isn't a whole lot better. Sure, the crank is very nice but then they go ahead and put in tooth picks for connecting rods in there! And anyway, it's Polaris, so the point is moot. Neither one gets my money.
not sure I am understanding if you are referring to the Victory connecting rods or HD ....

....... the Stock Rods on my Hammer were good for around 200 hp .... for ~ 15k miles / 2 seasons .

Peter
 

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not sure I am understanding if you are referring to the Victory connecting rods or HD ....

....... the Stock Rods on my Hammer were good for around 200 hp .... for ~ 15k miles / 2 seasons .

Peter
I think he's referring to the Indian Turd Stroke 111 that can't even take 5 inches of bore without needing new rods. The factory came out with a 116 big bore and the rods started failing!
 

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Lone Rider of the Apocolypse
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not sure I am understanding if you are referring to the Victory connecting rods or HD ....

....... the Stock Rods on my Hammer were good for around 200 hp .... for ~ 15k miles / 2 seasons .

Peter
Hey Peter. No, I was not referring to Victory at all. I don't like the toothpick stock rods that Polaris -indian put into the TS111. And I don't care for the HD setup in the least. Seems weak to me.
 
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Funny but true story .......

In one of the past renditions of My Hammer.... probably the 'Baby' 106 motor with the upgraded SC tensioner .....

It was now going to be at the 200hp / 176tq mark.
I asked Lloyd .... "will the bottom end of this - stock motor - handle the 200 / 176 ??"

His response - " Hmmm....Don't know ...but you will certainly find out "

He smirked , scratched at his chin hairs ...and went back into his office.

Roughly 15 or so thousands miles , many track days and roughly 1+ seasons .... and no issues.
So Yes ...the Stock Vic 106 bottom can handle 200hp / 176tq.

Peter
 

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I know,, it all just crazy waco insane ain't it? Our Vics and their AMAZING high hp/torque engines get sh*$ canned and replaced by the 111 turd that, even on it's best day has a struggle with a smaller 103 HD which our 106's would run circles around. If you REALLY want a head scratcher, go ride one of those new Yamaha ETurders or SVTC's.. On their best day you may see 75 horse out of that 113 inch motor and the things weigh a half a ton - talk about a REAL Hog!! A serious laughing stock of a machine. I still think our fearless leaders at Polaris must of had a monoxide leak in their offices or something during the time frame when they stopped production on our Vics...
 

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Since when is a Stage 2 only filter, pipes, and tune?

I always thought Stage 2 included cams and a kit with only filter, pipes, and tune was a Stage 1?

Am I missing something here?
 

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Since when is a Stage 2 only filter, pipes, and tune?

I always thought Stage 2 included cams and a kit with only filter, pipes, and tune was a Stage 1?

Am I missing something here?
When Harley charges 1000 dollars for pipes, intake, and tune that's a Stage 1 upgrade. When they charge 2000 dollars for different pipes, intake, and tune that's a Stage 2 upgrade. Lol.
 

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When Harley charges 1000 dollars for pipes, intake, and tune that's a Stage 1 upgrade. When they charge 2000 dollars for different pipes, intake, and tune that's a Stage 2 upgrade. Lol.
It's funny to me because I have two family members that just got new HD SG and they both got the Stage 2 kit. I was thinking that maybe they would actually give my Stage 1 Vics a challenge. Now I see that my VIcs have a Harley Stage 2 as well. Mine was much cheaper all the way around.
 

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That's pretty much the way I understand it too.
That's good. I was just trying to figure out who was the dumbarse, me or him?

Looking at the HD site the Stage II is a cam package. So I guess this guy was sold a special cam free Stage II kit. Twice the price for half the gear.
 

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It's funny to me because I have two family members that just got new HD SG and they both got the Stage 2 kit. I was thinking that maybe they would actually give my Stage 1 Vics a challenge. Now I see that my VIcs have a Harley Stage 2 as well. Mine was much cheaper all the way around.
In seriousness manufacturers do fudge this stuff all the time too. Back in the early 2000's a Victory Stage 2 upgrade was a big bore kit. S1 was just pipes and filter. Their Stage 3 at that time was cams and an intake. It wasn't until the last couple years that Victory actually offered an upgrade cam that was designated stage 2. There was a couple years around 2010 were some bonehead marketer labeled stock cams "stage 2" but it was freaking stock. Only twice did Victory ever offer a cam upgrade, the original Stage 3 for the 92 or 100" cruisers, and then the S&S stage two the last couple years for the Cross bikes.
 

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In seriousness manufacturers do fudge this stuff all the time too. Back in the early 2000's a Victory Stage 2 upgrade was a big bore kit. S1 was just pipes and filter. Their Stage 3 at that time was cams and an intake. It wasn't until the last couple years that Victory actually offered an upgrade cam that was designated stage 2. There was a couple years around 2010 were some bonehead marketer labeled stock cams "stage 2" but it was freaking stock. Only twice did Victory ever offer a cam upgrade, the original Stage 3 for the 92 or 100" cruisers, and then the S&S stage two the last couple years for the Cross bikes.
I dont doubt that could have influenced this at all going right down to the dumb sales people. I've talked with some real dumb ones that would say whatever they thought you wanted to hear to make you buy it. Who knows what this guy thought he bought vs. actually bought. HD certainly knows how to bleed every penny from you.
 

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I dont doubt that could have influenced this at all going right down to the dumb sales people. I've talked with some real dumb ones that would say whatever they thought you wanted to hear to make you buy it. Who knows what this guy thought he bought vs. actually bought. HD certainly knows how to bleed every penny from you.
Yup. And something I've learned over the last decade or so, if it's stage anything from the factory it's a waste of money. Get a stage 2 factory package from the dealer installed for 3000 dollars and gain 10 horsepower. Or get an aftermarket intake, cams, pipes and tune and gain 30.
 

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The video is interesting in just showing how little difference there really is between a stage 2 103 and a stage 1 107, but they DON'T talk about about the reliability of the motors with those mods. I wouldn't trust a 103 for any length of time or serious riding without spending some serious cash. I guess you could do the mods and only twist the grip at bike night a few times to impress the girls but if you actually USE it you're gonna twist the crank or have to redo the bottom end or etc etc etc.

What would REALLY be funny to show is an 'old' 92" or 100" bike with a tune, pipes and intake.. maybe a cam to compare. Hell, pick one with 100K miles on it while you're at it. :)
 

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The video is interesting in just showing how little difference there really is between a stage 2 103 and a stage 1 107, but they DON'T talk about about the reliability of the motors with those mods. I wouldn't trust a 103 for any length of time or serious riding without spending some serious cash. I guess you could do the mods and only twist the grip at bike night a few times to impress the girls but if you actually USE it you're gonna twist the crank or have to redo the bottom end or etc etc etc.

What would REALLY be funny to show is an 'old' 92" or 100" bike with a tune, pipes and intake.. maybe a cam to compare. Hell, pick one with 100K miles on it while you're at it. :)
Ooh pick me pick me pick me! Lol. Seeing as I'm still at 100" and unblown I think it's fair to call mine a Stage 2 100". Of course what I'd really like to do is line mine up against a ten year newer 114" Fat Boy and 116" Chief. Cruiser v cruiser v cruiser. Let's see how much better ten years newer and 14-16" bigger is lmao.
 
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