[MagVic CCT]

What that sounds like is an issue with the hydraulic system itself, because you should notice a difference in the pull with a stiffer spring. I would assume you have bled out the system from slave to master cylinder. Something is causing the fluids not to compress the spring enough is what it sound like. Or, you are lacking in travel at the lever to push enough fluid.

 

[Meisen]

If I can chime in…… don’t get to fixated with the Dyno numbers. Different tuners and different dynos at different times of the year produce different results. If you’re keeping the open exhaust the 505 cams are great but you also have a big bore from what I’m reading so I’m not exactly sure what your after. I would however consult with either Noe Martinez of Nomntz Desinz. Or Rylan Voss for your cam guidance.
Look for this more than Dyno numbers …. A smooth delivery of power. Little to no exhaust popping. Good torque down low. A good strong engine tuned properly will give you years of performance.

The bike rides good but I have these clutch issues I need to figure out, that is the main problem!!
I went for the 501 cams to stay with the stock clutch but now the clutch does not work anymore either and compared to what Ryland and NOE have got, I want more power.
Yes, I know I should not be hung up in numbers but guess what, I am
Why I am thinking I have the wrong cams maybe is that a friend got hos XC tuned now and almost got the same numbers as me, with only 501 cams.
And this is the same tuner and the same dyno shop........but he has also the cats in still but I know.
But again, my clutch slipped also during the last tune so it is not 110% either I guess.
New clutchpack first I think is the way to go, and maybe Ill just go for the 495s if I need to convert back to clutch cable because teh hydrauliv clutch does not hold up the torque.

 

[Meisen]

What that sounds like is an issue with the hydraulic system itself, because you should notice a difference in the pull with a stiffer spring. I would assume you have bled out the system from slave to master cylinder. Something is causing the fluids not to compress the spring enough is what it sound like. Or, you are lacking in travel at the lever to push enough fluid.

I cant remember, it was a cable when I bought the bike, i put it in pieces the first winter and then I put in the new spring also+converted to hydraulic so when there goes month without riding it is a little difficult to remember everything.
We have bled the system probably 100 times allready, both from top to bottom and from bottom to top.
But this just works perfectly with the stock spring, no issues at all. Thats why I cannot think there is air in the system.
What do you meen by lacking in travel at the lever?
I barely touch the lever and there it goes and I can change gear.
But offcourse I am open to try again to bleed the system, but I really think the hole situation is strange.
Maybe I should try to bleed it manually again, oldshool way.

 

[Meisen]

What that sounds like is an issue with the hydraulic system itself, because you should notice a difference in the pull with a stiffer spring. I would assume you have bled out the system from slave to master cylinder. Something is causing the fluids not to compress the spring enough is what it sound like. Or, you are lacking in travel at the lever to push enough fluid.

This is also why I tried to get an answer in the forum if anyone else with Hydraulic clutch has done these upgrades and did they have the same issues maybe...........

 

[Chattanooga_Mark]

@Meisen, I’m sure you’ve heard this before but removing the cats on a Victory Cross bike reduces torque below 2500 between 4 to 6 pounds. Exactly where you don’t want reduced torque. The Cross bike oem header system is an excellent design which is why keeping it intact and only replacing the mufflers is the better option.

Yes, you can add a Lloyds timing wheel to regain the lost torque which in that case, only might get you back to where the bike started before cars were removed.

If your cats are gone and your mufflers are gutted, overall reduced power and torque are the typical result. Unless you’re building a 1/4 mile drag bike. But it will be very loud.

Like has been posted, chasing high numbers is a fool’s errand. There are too many other factors to consider. In the US many years ago many with the exact same bike, the exact same mods had very different end result numbers. Yup, you guessed it. One persons dyno was consistently and ridiculously optimistic. By nearly 10/10! The other two were only different by 3/4 each.

Your biggest current issue seems to be your hydraulic clutch causing high load slippage due to not being able to adjust free play. Unless you can find a way to physically move the clutch shave cylinder you have no real choice but to remove it in favor of the standard cable actuated clutch.

Your bikes lack of cats and its fully open exhaust system will be your next area of concern.

 

[slickvic]

The bike rides good but I have these clutch issues I need to figure out, that is the main problem!!
I went for the 501 cams to stay with the stock clutch but now the clutch does not work anymore either and compared to what Ryland and NOE have got, I want more power.
Yes, I know I should not be hung up in numbers but guess what, I am
Why I am thinking I have the wrong cams maybe is that a friend got hos XC tuned now and almost got the same numbers as me, with only 501 cams.
And this is the same tuner and the same dyno shop........but he has also the cats in still but I know.
But again, my clutch slipped also during the last tune so it is not 110% either I guess.
New clutchpack first I think is the way to go, and maybe Ill just go for the 495s if I need to convert back to clutch cable because teh hydrauliv clutch does not hold up the torque.

There are many visions out there with big power and their hydraulic clutches are still in play. A stock clutch with a new spring and diaphragm will hold 125/125. Deleting cats on a cross bike will rob you of torque. Noticed more on the street but a before and after graph on a same day Dyno will also show the loss. So likely a new clutch and springs with new diaphragm will get you down the road.
I have 2 bikes ( see signature) the magnum has the 505 cams while the XC has the 501 cams. I can tell you that the 505 cam is a better street cam for around town riding. Comes on sooner and pulls just fine to 5k. Love that bike and it’s quicker than the XC with the bigger cam and bigger numbers !!

 

[Motorbikerx]

If this is the case, then Harley finally have something better than Victory, there Hydraulic clutches
Thats why I converted this also, because I thought it would do the job fine, but obvesiouly not..........
My last build up was a Vrod Muscle with 144hp on the wheel and 122nm, and thats only a 1250 engine but stock hydraulic did hold there, but more torqye on the Vics.

114/114 is more than I have on mine so thats why I wonder if the 501s are to small with open pipes and removed cats, i dont know but I am not happy still with the numbers but it might just be the wrong setup.
I will have to think what i want to do, everything is so gad dam expensive to ship over to Norway also but if I still have to convert back to cable I might as well go all inn with the 495s

Well in a word -YES !

Rest of your setup with cable, cams and underdrive.
GO FOR IT !

 

[Motorbikerx]

@Meisen, I’m sure you’ve heard this before but removing the cats on a Victory Cross bike reduces torque below 2500 between 4 to 6 pounds. Exactly where you don’t want reduced torque. The Cross bike oem header system is an excellent design which is why keeping it intact and only replacing the mufflers is the better option.

Yes, you can add a Lloyds timing wheel to regain the lost torque which in that case, only might get you back to where the bike started before cars were removed.

If your cats are gone and your mufflers are gutted, overall reduced power and torque are the typical result. Unless you’re building a 1/4 mile drag bike. But it will be very loud.

Like has been posted, chasing high numbers is a fool’s errand. There are too many other factors to consider. In the US many years ago many with the exact same bike, the exact same mods had very different end result numbers. Yup, you guessed it. One persons dyno was consistently and ridiculously optimistic. By nearly 10/10! The other two were only different by 3/4 each.

Your biggest current issue seems to be your hydraulic clutch causing high load slippage due to not being able to adjust free play. Unless you can find a way to physically move the clutch shave cylinder you have no real choice but to remove it in favor of the standard cable actuated clutch.

Your bikes lack of cats and its fully open exhaust system will be your next area of concern.

OOPS I hit LIKE by mistake!
I strongly disagree.
First who rides under 2500???
Second who rides under 2500?
and Third, you guessed it!

I've ridden a mates stock 106 XC that he's had decatted cos of heat, he's riding up Northern Territory and hauling a camper trailer and loves it.

I sent him to Fred for a good dynotune via Maximus,
Now I've ridden his XC since the tune and looking at the graph, yes there's a dip at 3000, .on paper.
But it cannot be felt at all.

Interesting looking at the graph though is a properly tuned stock XC does put out significantly more torque in that 3K dip area.
Puts out more torque than unturned.
Which is fairly obvious and expected.

Really if it's a competition for numbers on a dyno, which it isn't for me (even though I win)
I don't give a rat's arse about numbers.
It's how the bike rides!
How it performs!
How quickly it blitzes through that 3K zone anyway getting off the lights.
Our bikes are grunty and with work they are Grunt Monsters!

I slight dip on a graph at 3K Is nothing in the real world.....

I rest my case.

 

[slickvic]

Here is an interesting look at 2 different bikes tuned with Maximus. One of the graphs shown reveal a poor tune and the other a proper tune. They were done by two different tuners. One used a Dyno and the other a remote tune. See if you can guess which one is the bad tune and how that tune was performed.

 

[slickvic]

 

[Chattanooga_Mark]

I would hope no one ‘rides’ at 2500 in the lower gears. But that’s not the point. All else being equal, removing the cats on a Victory Cross bike lowers the torque below 2500. Period.

A properly tuned 106 reduces (doesn’t eliminate) felt engine/exhaust heat. IMHO, removing the cats simply isn’t worth it on any road ridden Victory 106” Cross bike.

YMMV

 

[MagVic CCT]

I will ride somewhere between 1900 and 2200 quite often when putting around back roads with no time limits or real destination. Usually in fifth, maybe fourth. There are a lot of times when I know that I'm not going to be wanting to grab a lot of throttle quickly, so it doesn't matter and the bike doesn't lug. Just a leisurely ride through the country side. Now, out on the slab or in traffic I usually stay at or above 2500 and will even stay in a lower gear to keep the revs up when traffic is around and I might have to jump out of the way, or even rely on a bit of extra compression braking to avoid a situation. And there are times when traveling that we'll take it to nearly 4000 in OD to cover some ground. Not afraid to ride the bike, but I ride to my circumstances and don't try to maintain some artificial mean just because. Cammed and well tuned, my bike will perform as I ask it.

 

[Motorbikerx]

Well if you two ride around like old men and are happy then leave your cats in then I don't see a problem.

 

[Motorbikerx]

View attachment 638779
View attachment 638778

Pretty pictures but I can't work them out... pressed play and nothing happens.
If it was a good pro Dyno tune I'd say it's win over remote.
That's just a guess of course.

 

[Meisen]

First time I read a thread about the cats, it was allready too late, but I feel some say you loose some and some say you dont, and specially if you have the big bore you wont even notice, there is an opinion/experience for everything.
My mufflers are not gutted by me, but I have the Jekyll&Hide system on the bike.
After I got Maximus installed on the bike I will never put that timing wheel on again
Th

There are many visions out there with big power and their hydraulic clutches are still in play. A stock clutch with a new spring and diaphragm will hold 125/125. Deleting cats on a cross bike will rob you of torque. Noticed more on the street but a before and after graph on a same day Dyno will also show the loss. So likely a new clutch and springs with new diaphragm will get you down the road.
I have 2 bikes ( see signature) the magnum has the 505 cams while the XC has the 501 cams. I can tell you that the 505 cam is a better street cam for around town riding. Comes on sooner and pulls just fine to 5k. Love that bike and it’s quicker than the XC with the bigger cam and bigger numbers !!

I have allready ordered new clutchplates and a new stock spring, but will offcourse try to see if the Barnett spring ore the gold spring will work with new plates since my clutch has gone so many km.
I love the bike, but I feel I am missing some on the top, i rarely drive under 2500rpm, so thats not where I feel I miss something
As I said before also, Norways longest straigt ahead road without any turns is probably just 1km in total so i guess our driving is a hole lot different compared to the states.
But maybe the 501s are to small also because of the removed cats and the ported heads but I didnt think that should have that much to say on top.
About the 505s I just read that someone said that they could be better for open pipes, but as stated further up her the 501s are bigger so I guess that wont help me either.
But first of all I think new clutch and a new round at the dyno to get it proper tuned without any slip.
At least my engine is set up to go for the 504s ore the 495s if I want to

 

[Motorbikerx]

I'd go the .495 with the reduction pulley.
Mate you'll have that much HP and Torque you won't miss a few foot pounds at all.

Geeze mate my Kingpin breaks all the rules , and theories,
it's as happy pulling from 2000 in 6th as it is pulling 6500 in 4th.
It's Torque-A- Rama😈
I've ridden a decatted but properly tuned stock XC and it's not left wanting.

 

[Depot Picker]

Just a thought on the hydraulic clutch slippage: Is the reservoir over filled?

 

[Meisen]

Just a thought on the hydraulic clutch slippage: Is the reservoir over filled?

No, the level is where it should be in the glass in front.
The reservoir is like the one for the frontbrake, with a rubbergasket thats going down in the reservoir so its kinda hard to overfill it, wou would see it straight away when you put the gasket on.

 

[MagVic CCT]

Usually, you can collapse those gaskets so that they don't protrude into the reservoir. I believe they are designed to occupy the space as the fluid level drops. At least, I've seen this in other systems.

 

[Meisen]

Usually, you can collapse those gaskets so that they don't protrude into the reservoir. I believe they are designed to occupy the space as the fluid level drops. At least, I've seen this in other systems.

That is correct, same system here on Vics