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ok my 15 CCT is completely stock. I need to replace my air filter. I'm looking at lloyd's do you need to do any special tuning or other add-ons? Since stock paper filters are $25 and will become unavailable. I'm looking at keeping this bike for awhile! Thanks
 

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The rule of thumb is you can either change your intake to a freer flowing air filter like the Lloydz filter or you can change your mufflers to freer flowing with a better sound but you couldn't do both without doing some kind of tune to richen up the air/fuel mixture because it would run too lean.
 

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With the filter alone you could run it without a tune. I ran my Vision that way with Stage 1 pipes. I didn't add a tuner until I added the top filter.

I will say the tuner makes a difference so if you can sorting for it, do it. It will really wake up the bike.
 

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The rule of thumb is you can either change your intake to a freer flowing air filter like the Lloydz filter or you can change your mufflers to freer flowing with a better sound but you couldn't do both without doing some kind of tune to richen up the air/fuel mixture because it would run too lean.
I would have to have to disagree with the rule of thumb.

These bikes run too lean at cruise out of the box. Adding more air in without adding fuel is foolishness.
 

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I would have to have to disagree with the rule of thumb.

These bikes run too lean at cruise out of the box. Adding more air in without adding fuel is foolishness.
You can disagree to your hearts content. It still doesn't change physics. Unless you change the flow at intake AND exhaust you still have the rate of flow of the most restrictive end.
 

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You can disagree to your hearts content. It still doesn't change physics. Unless you change the flow at intake AND exhaust you still have the rate of flow of the most restrictive end.
Huh?? Most ridiculous thing I have read in a while. People tying to simplify with "rules of thumb" is nothing more than urban legend.
 

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You can disagree to your hearts content. It still doesn't change physics. Unless you change the flow at intake AND exhaust you still have the rate of flow of the most restrictive end.
Any stock Vic needs a fuel tuner.

You don't have to replace the mufflers on a X or Vision to get 10 HP with an air filter and Dyno tune.

The stock exhaust as guiet as it is breathes well enough to lean it out to a dangerous level for an air cooled engine with a quality hi-flo air filter.
 

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I have read Rylan from the Vic Shop more than once say, unplug your O2s and you get one upgrade. Will the bike benefit from a tuner? Yes it will. Can you live without, yup.
 

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if you add air you MUST ADD FUEL as well ... period Just unplugging your O2's may give you more fuel in one area but its not a real fix for the issue. especially with adding a new intake that is going to flow a LOT more air than the stock unit ever did
 

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Any stock Vic needs a fuel tuner.

You don't have to replace the mufflers on a X or Vision to get 10 HP with an air filter and Dyno tune.

The stock exhaust as guiet as it is breathes well enough to lean it out to a dangerous level for an air cooled engine with a quality hi-flo air filter.
That's an entirely different conversation. The question is does a person need a tuner if they only open up one end; the intake or the exhaust?

The answer is NO. They do need one if they open up both ends to make the engine run better and also to richen up the air/fuel mixture.

This is like Freshmen 101 class on the first day of school.
 

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Let me play devil's advocate for a minute here....if I seem to contradict myself, it is intention and rethorical!

***deep breath***

If an engine is nothing more than a large air pump, (air comes in, air goes out) then the airflow out must equal the air in. You can open the exhaust and have the availabilty to push more air through the engine but it will not increase the effeciency of the engine until you increase the air coming in. You can open the intake and have the availability to pull more air through the engine but, it will not increase the efficieny of the engine until you increase the air going out.

Now lets say, stock has a large intake and a restrictive exhaust - then you can increase the exhaust until you equal the intake without out creating a unbalance. You can put a HUGE exhaust on it, far exceeding the capability of the intake and all you have done is moved the imbalance from the exhaust to the intake with a minimal improvement of air out (up to the amount of air pulled in by the stock intake) Conversely, on the intake side...

"Upgrading" just one of the intake or exhaust will only make a difference if there is a deficiency on one or the other. You would have to know which area is more restrictive and open it up. Of course, your "pump" has to have the capacity to utilize all the incoming air or it is of no relevance....

With all that said, moving air is only one part. Your computer has a set map and will provide fuel based on a set of parameters...I refuse to get into the specifics of how this works as I'm not in the mood to fight off "sexual intellects" (****in' know it alls) All you need to take from this is there is a set amount of fuel being delivered and if you increase the air in and air out, on the same amount of fuel, you have created a lean situation inside the pump (engine)...depending on the point in the mapping table, determines what problems arise from this lean condition. So, you need more fuel to combat this.

Having said all that, I will say, it all depends on what changes you make to your pump, how it affected the "air in, air out" formula to know if you need a fuel tuner or not. Not all exhaust set ups or intake set ups are the same and will ALL vary from bike to bike!!! Only way to know for sure is to have your set up placed on sensors that read exactly what is happening inside your engine....


Just an example of what I'm talking about is simply this. I thought you could change one or the other and be fine but, my buddy just bought a new 2013 Judge (2 miles on the odometer) and swapped out the exhaust. Son of a gun decel pops worse than my wife! Stock everything else. Apparently, it changed more than just sound - it changed back pressure, airflow volume and other factors that I'm not smart enough to talk about. Bottom line, he needs a tuner. And talking to a specialist, that was confirmed.

Now, would the same thing happen if he just changed the intake? without knowing what the volumetric capability of the stock exhaust allows, I'm not sure...maybe yes, maybe no. But, what I do know is this: when you change a stoic condition with one element (fuel) or the other (air), you MUST have them balanced again - unless you have the volumetric numbers to tell you what you can change before you affect the stoic condition, you will create an imbalance and a less efficient "pump".
 

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That's an entirely different conversation. The question is does a person need a tuner if they only open up one end; the intake or the exhaust?

The answer is NO. They do need one if they open up both ends to make the engine run better and also to richen up the air/fuel mixture.

This is like Freshmen 101 class on the first day of school.
What you're not getting here is that the EXHAUST IS ALREADY OPENED UP ENOUGH STOCK TO FLOW MORE AIR. By simply adding a less restrictive filter you greatly increase the air-flow thru the motor. These bikes already run too lean stock, you're adding to the problem. Yes you can get away with unplugging the O2's to add more fuel at "cruise", at the very least do that but it's a band-aid on the problem.
 

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You can disagree to your hearts content. It still doesn't change physics. Unless you change the flow at intake AND exhaust you still have the rate of flow of the most restrictive end.
True BUT the "most restrictive end" on the Cross bikes is the INTAKE.
 

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What you're not getting here is that the EXHAUST IS ALREADY OPENED UP ENOUGH STOCK TO FLOW MORE AIR. By simply adding a less restrictive filter you greatly increase the air-flow thru the motor. These bikes already run too lean stock, you're adding to the problem. Yes you can get away with unplugging the O2's to add more fuel at "cruise", at the very least do that but it's a band-aid on the problem.
Oh, I agree you're adding to the lean condition, if that's what you mean by "problem" when you open up the intake with a better air filter.

The engine is still not in the danger zone of running too lean though because the stock mufflers restrict the air flow. You may not think so but they do.

Look, all of this moot, the best thing to do is to open up both ends and retune the bike with one of the aftermarket options. We all know this. The Tri-Ovals I recently installed on my XC came with a freer flowing air filter and a card to retune the engine at an authorized Victory shop. It's so basic these components are routinely sold as a kit.

This is engine tuning 101. Why we are even discussing it like this is weird. Yes, the OP can change the air filter to a Lloydz and not do any damage to his engine as long as he doesn't change the exhaust. Once he does; he also needs to get a new tune because then the engine will be running too lean. Very basic.
 

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ok my 15 CCT is completely stock. I need to replace my air filter. I'm looking at lloyd's do you need to do any special tuning or other add-ons? Since stock paper filters are $25 and will become unavailable. I'm looking at keeping this bike for awhile! Thanks
anything that you can add and remove fuel . Keep it simple adjustable tuner. you can find a used Lloydz tuner for under 150.00.

DO NOT waste your money on the COBRA auto tuner.

You will need minimal adjustments. without an AFR gauge its a crap shoot on adjusting what you really need. you can rent an AFR gauge from Dobeck and use the Lloydz tuner to get an approximate tune. so the answer is get a tuner, which one, good luck everyone has their favorite.

I would highly recommend a tuner you can grow with as your mods become more advanced. And you know you will.
 

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+1 on the Cobra's being JUNK.....
 
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