Lifters/rockers noisy when hot
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If you think it might be top end lifter type noise drain a little oil out and add a can of Seafoam. Run it about 50 to a 100 miles and change the oil.
If it sounds more like a bottom end noise and you're getting metal contamination check into a recall they had on 2014's about crankshaft play. Dealers were supposed to do a pretty involved check under the recall but I doubt most actually really did it.
If it sounds more like a bottom end noise and you're getting metal contamination check into a recall they had on 2014's about crankshaft play. Dealers were supposed to do a pretty involved check under the recall but I doubt most actually really did it.
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7,131 Posts
2600+ rpm under load; in what gear?
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Under those circumstances, I don't believe heat is your issue. Especially if there's a cooling fan involved. That must be some kind of addition.
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A 2014 CCT with a PCV, timing wheel etc. should not be over heating or pinging. As has been asked, was the bike ‘tuned’ by a competent Victory dyno tuner or are you using a generic ‘canned’ fuel map?
Polaris reduced the size of the oil cooler and the oil capacity because these bikes are simply not designed to get too hot. Someone adding an electric fan on the oil cooler tells me something is very wrong with the tune.
As has been posted, reduce the Lloyds timing wheel advance to +2. Also pay attention to gear selection and speed. Pinging at 2600rpm in 6th gear is possibly caused by too much mechanical advance, too low an octane rating and/or simply being in the wrong gear for the circumstances.
Also, in warmer temps, never close the CCT lower vents all the way. They work best in most conditions being open 1”-2”. Opening them all the way at speed ensures the rider will be drenched in engine and exhaust heat.
The best route, engine running wise, is to contact @NOEMTZ for a remote Maximus tune. With that, you reinstall the oem timing wheel or set the Lloyds timing wheel to 0. Plus you remove the PCV. No one has more experience than @NOEMTZ with Maximus tuning a Victory. He’s simply, IMHO, ‘the best’ at that craft.
Polaris reduced the size of the oil cooler and the oil capacity because these bikes are simply not designed to get too hot. Someone adding an electric fan on the oil cooler tells me something is very wrong with the tune.
As has been posted, reduce the Lloyds timing wheel advance to +2. Also pay attention to gear selection and speed. Pinging at 2600rpm in 6th gear is possibly caused by too much mechanical advance, too low an octane rating and/or simply being in the wrong gear for the circumstances.
Also, in warmer temps, never close the CCT lower vents all the way. They work best in most conditions being open 1”-2”. Opening them all the way at speed ensures the rider will be drenched in engine and exhaust heat.
The best route, engine running wise, is to contact @NOEMTZ for a remote Maximus tune. With that, you reinstall the oem timing wheel or set the Lloyds timing wheel to 0. Plus you remove the PCV. No one has more experience than @NOEMTZ with Maximus tuning a Victory. He’s simply, IMHO, ‘the best’ at that craft.
Dropped it to +3° for the ride home sound was still there although it was only 63° on the way home I could tell its still there just not near as loud. I hear it in all gears not a specific gear. Previous owner took pride and really good care of the bike and did research and found they run warm and installed the fan as a preventative feature. I have a gut feeling it's some kind of slop in the top end
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That or the sound is completely normal, your helmet isn’t very quiet and the previous owner didn’t understand it either.
You’ve ignored answering a lot of questions from people trying to help which is also odd.
You’ve ignored answering a lot of questions from people trying to help which is also odd.
I apologize what am I ignoring tried to answer everything I could
Bike is not running hot my apologies typical motorcycle heat I haven't checked but if I had to guess 200° give or take a few is normal operating temp in my opinion. As far as who tuned it I have no idea but previous owner said he had a shop and knew what he was doing so I took his word. I'm just going to tear into it this weekend hopefully and see what's sloppy if anything
Btw if anyone is local or near Pensacola FL and knows a thing or two I will gladly ride it over just to get an opinion on the matter local shop charges 140 an hour so I'm too stubborn to go that route
Btw if anyone is local or near Pensacola FL and knows a thing or two I will gladly ride it over just to get an opinion on the matter local shop charges 140 an hour so I'm too stubborn to go that route
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That could be. Your problem: If you have a timing wheel that is set to advance, say 4 degrees, and the map in the power commander is also advancing some more degrees after 2,500 rpm, which is the norm, you are most likely way too far advanced. When you install a timing wheel, you have to make sure you take the advance out of the power commander map, by setting it back to 0. Then you start off at around 4 degrees advance with the LLoydz timing wheel and go from there.
I did this mod on my 2013 vegas. I changed the map to 0 advance, and renamed it and downloaded it into the PCV I haVe onboard. Then I installed the LLoydz wheel and set it at 4 degrees. I haven’t messed with it, as the bike seems to run fine. I did create another map with an additional degree of advance for the PCV, but I haven’tried it.
So no. T’he timing wheel gives you whatever advance is set into it from start, all the way up to. Max power. Any additional advance from the PCV map is on top of that amount of advance. I’d be really careful not to go too far. I would suspect you are getting detonation in the cylinders from over advancing the spark. That’s bad.
If I can help further just let me know.
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Just a quick note on how I understand the LLoydz timing wheel came about and how the PCV or other power commander maps for ignition timing advance work.
i was told that the software for the Victory ECU does not allow for ignition timing advance below 2,500 rpm. If you design a power commander map and input some ignition advance all the way through the map, you will still not get any advance until the engine reaches 2,500 rpm, which on my bike is around 75 mph or so.
So, LLoydz came up with the manually adjustable timing wheel to allow spark advance at all points in the motor’s operation. However, it’s a fixed amount of advance, and you set it up and lock the advance in place. I set mine up before I put the Lloydz wheel on the bike.
Now here comes the rub, if you are using a power commander and have some advance in your map. Let’s say you have the LLoydz wheel set at 5 degrees advance. And the power commander map you are using is set for 5 degrees advance. All is fine until you hit 2,500 rpm, then the PCV kicks in an additional 5 degrees advance and you now have 10 degrees advance, over whatever the original ECU setting might be.
It’s very easy to grossly over do the amount of advance you put into the motor.
These motors are designed to operate over a large ambient temperature and pressure range, as well as humidity levels. So, you can squeeze a bit more performance out of them with exhausts, cams, power commanders, timing wheels etc. But you have to be very careful about what you do, and add these improvements a bit at a time, and monitor the results. You might have to go backwards on some things to get the performance or operation you need for the environment you operate in.
It’s harder for you, as you have purhcased a bike with all the mods done, so you haven’t the advantage of trying one thing after another and seeing what results each mod have given you. I see some minor disadvantage to the Lloydz wheel on my bike, but overall the advantages outweigh it. Everything is a trade off, as no engine will run perfectly at all altitudes, temps and pressures.
So, start off with your timing stuff, review the map that is installed on your power commander and do what needs to be done there. Dynojet offers a free download of the software to run the map, and if you have a pc laptop you are in good shape. You just hook it up to the bike, turn on the ignition and go from there. A little more to it of course, but the software. and instructions are pretty good. The most important thing is you need to access the map in your Power commander and see what advance you have programmed in there first off. next you check the timing wheel setting. I’d also talk to the folks who supply the cams and ask them what they recommend for ignition timing, as that will have a lot to do with it also. Exhaust installation will only have an effect on fuel delivery and adjusting the fuel to take advantage of the freer breathing engine. Power commander also has to be mapped to include the modified cams and exhaust. I assume that has been done, but once again, you will need to check. I would think that someone who had done all that work, would probably have dynoed the engine and tuned it and mapped it to provide the optimum in running, however, the LLoydz wheel might not have been installed first and so it hadn’t been accounted for.
Sorry this got longer than I had intended, but you are going to need to be careful gathering all the information before you do much of anything.
i was told that the software for the Victory ECU does not allow for ignition timing advance below 2,500 rpm. If you design a power commander map and input some ignition advance all the way through the map, you will still not get any advance until the engine reaches 2,500 rpm, which on my bike is around 75 mph or so.
So, LLoydz came up with the manually adjustable timing wheel to allow spark advance at all points in the motor’s operation. However, it’s a fixed amount of advance, and you set it up and lock the advance in place. I set mine up before I put the Lloydz wheel on the bike.
Now here comes the rub, if you are using a power commander and have some advance in your map. Let’s say you have the LLoydz wheel set at 5 degrees advance. And the power commander map you are using is set for 5 degrees advance. All is fine until you hit 2,500 rpm, then the PCV kicks in an additional 5 degrees advance and you now have 10 degrees advance, over whatever the original ECU setting might be.
It’s very easy to grossly over do the amount of advance you put into the motor.
These motors are designed to operate over a large ambient temperature and pressure range, as well as humidity levels. So, you can squeeze a bit more performance out of them with exhausts, cams, power commanders, timing wheels etc. But you have to be very careful about what you do, and add these improvements a bit at a time, and monitor the results. You might have to go backwards on some things to get the performance or operation you need for the environment you operate in.
It’s harder for you, as you have purhcased a bike with all the mods done, so you haven’t the advantage of trying one thing after another and seeing what results each mod have given you. I see some minor disadvantage to the Lloydz wheel on my bike, but overall the advantages outweigh it. Everything is a trade off, as no engine will run perfectly at all altitudes, temps and pressures.
So, start off with your timing stuff, review the map that is installed on your power commander and do what needs to be done there. Dynojet offers a free download of the software to run the map, and if you have a pc laptop you are in good shape. You just hook it up to the bike, turn on the ignition and go from there. A little more to it of course, but the software. and instructions are pretty good. The most important thing is you need to access the map in your Power commander and see what advance you have programmed in there first off. next you check the timing wheel setting. I’d also talk to the folks who supply the cams and ask them what they recommend for ignition timing, as that will have a lot to do with it also. Exhaust installation will only have an effect on fuel delivery and adjusting the fuel to take advantage of the freer breathing engine. Power commander also has to be mapped to include the modified cams and exhaust. I assume that has been done, but once again, you will need to check. I would think that someone who had done all that work, would probably have dynoed the engine and tuned it and mapped it to provide the optimum in running, however, the LLoydz wheel might not have been installed first and so it hadn’t been accounted for.
Sorry this got longer than I had intended, but you are going to need to be careful gathering all the information before you do much of anything.
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When the whole timing wheel craze started I recall the caution being to never set it above 4, but to start there and back it down slowly. Most settled around 2 to 2.5 and got good results. This was wheel only in most cases, and not the addition of a piggy back tuner. A lot of experimentation has occured since then, not all of it good I'm sure. Since it covers all parameters and doesn't require careful synchronization of "parts" I went with the Maximus when installing cams. Simplicity and all is correct.
Took a 95 mile run through the countryside today, rolling hills and long sweepers, to get some lunch at a great little pizza joint I hadn't yet tried. Coming and going, rolling 70 to 75 (wasn't in a hurry) bike just purred. Never even sounded strained at any point. I know it's $$$'s and I hold on to mine as tight as any one, but cams, tune, intake and pipes and these bikes run sooooo good. Smooth, cool quiet, and all day long. Running all day at 95 is not a strain....done it. Talking 6 to 7 hours in a rush to get somewhere. If the plan is to keep the bike for a while, I think it's worth it. Why I did it.
Took a 95 mile run through the countryside today, rolling hills and long sweepers, to get some lunch at a great little pizza joint I hadn't yet tried. Coming and going, rolling 70 to 75 (wasn't in a hurry) bike just purred. Never even sounded strained at any point. I know it's $$$'s and I hold on to mine as tight as any one, but cams, tune, intake and pipes and these bikes run sooooo good. Smooth, cool quiet, and all day long. Running all day at 95 is not a strain....done it. Talking 6 to 7 hours in a rush to get somewhere. If the plan is to keep the bike for a while, I think it's worth it. Why I did it.
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If changing the timing improves it, timing is the problem.
I have a timing wheel and had to set it to 1 to eliminate ping.
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As we all keep saying the motor is probably fine. Just need to cut back the timing because it's likely pinging that you are hearing "all the time."
Polaris had a recall for a brake line and listed issue was the clip melting during excessive pinging. Hopefully you had that recall done. Check on your rear brake line.
Polaris had a recall for a brake line and listed issue was the clip melting during excessive pinging. Hopefully you had that recall done. Check on your rear brake line.
Well as said I dropped it to 3°advanced still ran great but sound still there. I forgot to mention it was dyno tuned at 113hp and 116 tq so it seems to have a good tune and runs excellent in my opinion. I think I'll try 0° on the timing wheel and check the power commander map. I was hoping to take it on a 3300 mile trip this summer is reason for being so panicky lol. Thank you all for any and all advice
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You started on +4 correct so drop it down to +2 and see if noise is still there, if it is then it’s just the normal valve train sound. I know it’s a little different than any other engine sounds you ( all of us @ first ) are used to but it’s normal. You can record & post it but won’t be the same, someone must be close enough to you to give some first hand experience maybe @slickvic can chime in with someone local
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Do some day long practice rides packed with everything you intend to take on the long trip & a very thorough preventative maintenance beforehand. As for essentials, pack a save ur ride clutch cable ( our very own paulpomerleau has fantastic victory videos on utub of how to make your own ) a spare 40amp breaker ( napa has them for $5 ) an extra flasher relay, your normal tool pack with tire plug kit & pump / compressor, the rv package of aaa membership ( to cover motorcycle towing just in case ) a credit card with available credit for surprises/ extra special circumstances ( never know when something back at home happens & you must ship the bike & grab a flight ) and you’ll be golden. These bikes are extremely easy to maintain, will reliably run forever & have very few issues that might strand you.
Is that safe? Sorry for my ignorance here I just don't want a chance of causing any damage. I was going to try a little a t.f. before an oil change but haven't heard of seafoam being used.
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