[Gossamer]

I'm finding it quite strange that the 2023 Indian models have yet to be announced.

Starting to get flashbacks from January of 2017 and their announcement of the death of the Victory. Even in that year, July, they announced their 2017 lineup with the one new addition of the Victory Octane.

By now all the big manufacturers have released their 2023 lineup and information. Well except for Polaris.

They've released their offroad lineup already.

Not even a peep about the motorcycles.

North America unit retail sales for Indian Motorcycle were down low-forties percent. North America unit retail sales for the comparable motorcycle industry were down mid-twenties percent.

So the market was down 20% but Polaris doubles the drop. That makes me think a lot. All the big manufacturers struggled with supply, why did Indian drop twice as much?

For 2021:
North American consumer retail sales for Indian Motorcycles decreased low-double digits percent during the fourth quarter of 2021 in a mid-to-heavy-weight two-wheel motorcycle industry that was up mid-single digits percent. North American consumer retail sales for Polaris' motorcycle segment, including both Indian Motorcycle and Slingshot, increased low-single digits percent during the fourth quarter of 2021. North American consumer retail sales for the motorcycle industry including both two-wheel and three-wheel increased low-single digits percent during the fourth quarter of 2021. Indian market share loss was driven by a lack of product availability during the quarter driven by supply chain challenges.

Their off road division was down 359 bps, on road down 71 pts.

The only division that was up was their marine.

Since motorcycles/slingshots are such a small part of their overall business and sales have been mostly flat the last few years as well as supply issues. It's highly probable that they're a money losing division as well.

Their sales have been down the last few quarters. They sold off GEM and Taylor Dunn.

Could they be preparing to pull the plug?

 

[MagVic CCT]

Well, given the history and the load of crap they took for shutting down Victory, it would make sense that they would be very gun shy about such an announcement. Also, a very hard pill to swallow after all the whoopla about Indian. The delay is likely caused by the fact that they are having to locate all the upper management people who have gone into hiding.........No one wants to be the one to make that announcement.

 

[Chattanooga_Mark]

I don’t think they’ll pull the plug on Indian today. But I have always thought that 3 consecutive quarters with decreasing sales and they’d consider it. It just doesn’t seem like Polaris has any fresh, innovative or new ideas as far as motorcycles go. No one can point to three original or innovative ideas regarding any Polaris Indian model. Five years after murdering their Victory line and their best selling Indian models are still rebadged Victory models. The Challenger line as well as the Scout line.

 

[MagVic CCT]

while we're discussing possibilities, maybe a bit of engineering magic is needed. Perhaps a bit of a downsize and lightening of the "old" style Vics with incorporation of some of the latest innovations used by the "new" Vics, I mean, Indians. They managed to make the ride, suspension, feel and all else very good. Now look to loose a bit of weight and hold the line on the other great innovations. Just make it even easier to pull off the stand for the aging. There was nothing wrong with the Vic line, except most current riders wanted Harley's. But I think that Polaris might have made a mistake in using comparison and contrast. Maybe just pushing the whole bike performance on it's own merits and pushing that aspect hard. Appeal to those who really secretly desire to actually ride a performance bike.

 

[Gossamer]

Well supposedly they saw a boost in sales when they went to the 'harley-esque' look.
That being said, sales have been down across the board since i think second quarter of 2021.

It's hard to say how much they attribute to supply chain and how much has dropped due to market changes.

Not being a motorcycle company makes you wonder if they thought the initial surge of Indian sales over Victory was a roadmap of things to come. So they decided to pull the plug on Victory and follow Indian to only see the initial strong sales then a slow decline into where they are now.

Some of the local dealers stock hasn't changed all year. Mostly scouts but a few Chiefs and 2 dealers both have had Pursuits, non darkhorse, non premiums for several months.
One of them announced last week they had a darkhorse premium that a customer pulled out of and they sold it within a day.

Really not sure, starting to feel a bit like 2017 again.

 

[IM12STPN]

MAYBE IF they'd deliver bikes in timely manner they'd have money...RE: @bikendad and I'm sure many others.
I've been thinking about getting a Can-Am Spyder RT Limited, BLACK, BUT want test ride for me and wife on first. NO ONE HAS!!! One dealer had a 2 year old one...BEAT TO ****T, even they admitted and apoligised. 5 dealers have my name since June, told them I have check if test goes well....NO CALLS

 

[Chattanooga_Mark]

while we're discussing possibilities, maybe a bit of engineering magic is needed. Perhaps a bit of a downsize and lightening of the "old" style Vics with incorporation of some of the latest innovations used by the "new" Vics, I mean, Indians. They managed to make the ride, suspension, feel and all else very good. Now look to loose a bit of weight and hold the line on the other great innovations. Just make it even easier to pull off the stand for the aging. There was nothing wrong with the Vic line, except most current riders wanted Harley's. But I think that Polaris might have made a mistake in using comparison and contrast. Maybe just pushing the whole bike performance on it's own merits and pushing that aspect hard. Appeal to those who really secretly desire to actually ride a performance bike.

The American Muscle 'Performance' alternative Marketing plan certainly failed miserably against H-D with Victory. I still believe that if the Cross Roads, Cross Country and Cross Country Tour came out before the Vision, Victory could be alive and well today. IMHO, the Vision was an albatross the Victory brand was never able to shake. Yes, I know, the Vision is a great bike. But at the Vision's introduction, the H-D crowd Polaris was chasing literally laughed at the bike and ran away from the Victory brand. Too many of them ran away from the Victory brand for good after the Vision introduction.

Very few people bought a Polaris Indian because of the performance. They mostly bought it because it said Indian on the tank instead of Harley-Davidson. At this point, without the two Victory derivative lines, Challenger & Scout, Indian would already be dead and gone.

 

[IndyVictory]

Other brands have paused production and skipped years then continued later. 🤷‍♂️

Auto production they are often into production of the next year well before they announce specs.

I don't think anything to be concerned about. Indian brand isn't going anywhere.

 

[ByteN2it]

I don't think anything to be concerned about. Indian brand isn't going anywhere.

What makes you believe Polaris won’t ax the Indian line the same as they did with Victory? It’s just a matter of time & after they wring as many dollars as possible out of Indian they’ll do the math & move on-its all about the money & the bean counters run the show.

 

[ForestGiant]

MAYBE IF they'd deliver bikes in timely manner they'd have money...RE: @bikendad and I'm sure many others.
I've been thinking about getting a Can-Am Spyder RT Limited, BLACK, BUT want test ride for me and wife on first. NO ONE HAS!!! One dealer had a 2 year old one...BEAT TO ****T, even they admitted and apoligised. 5 dealers have my name since June, told them I have check if test goes well....NO CALLS

I guess this includes Leaders in Kalamazoo, which historically I believe, is the largest dealer in Michigan, maybe the midwest. The F3 Limited is the sportier of the Can AMs, but my godness, the wife would feel like a Godess aboard the RT Limited.

 

[NY mike]

I’ve been following them since I bought my 18 limited. And as far as I can remember “scary” they are always late November release’s. I remember waiting for the new year models back home and it was always cold when they came out. Challenger release included. I’m almost positive 22,s we’re released in November

 

[IM12STPN]

I guess this includes Leaders in Kalamazoo, which historically I believe, is the largest dealer in Michigan, maybe the midwest. The F3 Limited is the sportier of the Can AMs, but my godness, the wife would feel like a Godess aboard the RT Limited.

@ForestGiant ...guess what I got today, email from Leaders, they have what we want exactly....BUT leaving on trip. I am going to call shortly, but doubt they will hold for 3 weeks. I'm not upset, my thoughts always..."IF it's
meant to be...it will happen" 😁

2022 Can-Am® Spyder RT Limited Dark Wheels | Leaders RPM

Leaders RPM is a marine and powersports dealership located in Kalamazoo, MI. We sell, buy and trade boats and outdoor motorized recreational vehicles. We desire to be the service leader in boats, pontoons, PWCs (watercraft), ATVs (four-wheelers), UTVs (side-by-sides), motorcycles, outboard...

www.leadersrpm.com

 

[ShawnVision]

Polaris won’t dump Indian. Feels like they’re so far behind on ‘22s they need to catch up. Worst thing they could do is announce and start shipping ‘23s when ‘22 orders aren’t filled. Victory and Indian are different.

 

[witchbiker61]

I'm finding it quite strange that the 2023 Indian models have yet to be announced.

Starting to get flashbacks from January of 2017 and their announcement of the death of the Victory. Even in that year, July, they announced their 2017 lineup with the one new addition of the Victory Octane.

By now all the big manufacturers have released their 2023 lineup and information. Well except for Polaris.

They've released their offroad lineup already.

Not even a peep about the motorcycles.

North America unit retail sales for Indian Motorcycle were down low-forties percent. North America unit retail sales for the comparable motorcycle industry were down mid-twenties percent.

So the market was down 20% but Polaris doubles the drop. That makes me think a lot. All the big manufacturers struggled with supply, why did Indian drop twice as much?

For 2021:
North American consumer retail sales for Indian Motorcycles decreased low-double digits percent during the fourth quarter of 2021 in a mid-to-heavy-weight two-wheel motorcycle industry that was up mid-single digits percent. North American consumer retail sales for Polaris' motorcycle segment, including both Indian Motorcycle and Slingshot, increased low-single digits percent during the fourth quarter of 2021. North American consumer retail sales for the motorcycle industry including both two-wheel and three-wheel increased low-single digits percent during the fourth quarter of 2021. Indian market share loss was driven by a lack of product availability during the quarter driven by supply chain challenges.

Their off road division was down 359 bps, on road down 71 pts.

The only division that was up was their marine.

Since motorcycles/slingshots are such a small part of their overall business and sales have been mostly flat the last few years as well as supply issues. It's highly probable that they're a money losing division as well.

Their sales have been down the last few quarters. They sold off GEM and Taylor Dunn.

Could they be preparing to pull the plug?

Word from my dealer here in Florida is that Polaris may forego building any 2023 Indians in order to be better prepared with personnel and mfg processes for 2024. Jus' sayin'

 

[MagVic CCT]

uh...huh

 

[NY mike]

Word from my dealer here in Florida is that Polaris may forego building any 2023 Indians in order to be better prepared with personnel and mfg processes for 2024. Jus' sayin'

Lol boy if I believed every thing I got from my Harley and indian dealer owners I’d be walk-in and talkin a lot of BS over the years. But like yourself I always passed it along as hear say. As I would put it I don’t know if there’s any truth to this at all but here’s what I’m hearing lol

 

[normthenomad]

If they do quit Indian I'm going to snatch me an FTR when the clearance sale hits.

 

[ByteN2it]

The clearance sale could already be under way, selling down inventory would be the first step.

 

[Bikesofbrads]

I'm going to snatch me an FTR

I’ve been eyeballing this style FTR for awhile now, has sport tires and few other options so is more street able

 

[VvJoel]

Love the ftr carbon. My only gripe is the price. I can buy a ninja 1000 sx for 14k with adjustable windscreen, heated grips, and seat along with bags. Money is tight. People are going to look for the best bang for the buck.