Fuel Mapping | Victory Motorcycles: Motorcycle Forums

Fuel Mapping

Discussion in 'Tech Q&A' started by Kirb, Apr 13, 2019.

  1. Kirb

    Kirb New Member

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    I recently bought a 2012 Cross Roads LE 5k miles that has a Bassini Road Rage on it. Love the sound and the bike seems to run pretty good. I popped off the seat and side panel to see if there was a fuel controller on it and did not find one. It seems to be running rich. I looked and O2 sensors seem to both be connected, My understanding from the forums was it should be running lean if anything. Is there any way to tell if it was mapped? Do I need to buy a fuel controller? I am not a complete technical idiot but this is a bit new for me.
    Thanks for your help in advance...
     
  2. huberei

    huberei Active Member

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    the vics tend to run lean is stock.
    running rich is better in many ways. more power, less heat...
    as long as its not too rich.

    if there was some flashing done, there is only one way to figurenit out. ask the former owner.
    if it was done with a pcv it should be visible because of the device mounted somewhere on the bike. maybe look again?
     
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  3. Kirb

    Kirb New Member

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    Thanks for the feedback
     
  4. PreachSF

    PreachSF Well-Known Member

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    Like huberei said .. Vic run pretty lean from the factory. Having an aftermarket exhaust that flows a LOT more air is causing the bike to run even leaner. By unplugging the O2 sensors, that causes the ecm to add a SMALL amount of fuel to the stock fuel map. It MIGHT be enough to be ok, but to be honest, anytime you add more air into your engine (exhaust, intake..) you NEED to add more fuel so that you dont run too lean and do damage to your engine (burnt exhaust valves).

    If it were myself, I would save to add a fuel tuner, add an aftermarket intake and get a good tune.
     
  5. broggyr

    broggyr Administrator Staff Member

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    If you think it's running rich, perhaps the previous owner had it ECM flashed (Maximus/PCVX) which might not have an external unit attached.
     
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  6. Kirb

    Kirb New Member

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    Thank You.
     
  7. Andytwodogs

    Andytwodogs Well-Known Member

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    Another thing to consider is the fuel you are using. With both my stage 1 Victorys they would soot up on premium fuel, both ran much better and cleaner on standard grade non-ethanol.
    A 106 in near standard form does not have the compression or spark advance to burn premium fuel properly, hence the soot.

    The lean condition people speak of is at low rpm/throttle openings so the engine can look EPA compliant during statutory testing. Also somewhat for fuel economy reasons. So unplugging the O2 sensors makes the ECU stay on a richer map within those conditions. A properly tuned motorcycle using a PVCX or Maximus utilises the narrowband sensors for the simple reason that the ECU can be tuned to such accuracy that the sensors can do what they were designed to do, namely run the engine at maximum efficiency regardless of throttle conditions.

    Stock factory or stage 1 maps are necessarily a compromise to meet EPA regulations and to cover the (not insignificant) variables between different engines. In my opinion, stock maps are ****.
     
  8. wickman

    wickman Active Member

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    Would this not be true only if it was Maximus tuned with road tuning or Dyno and the Afr's are running within the Stock narrow band range, and the tuning map was tuned closer to Narrow band range? Wideband range is going to be a lot broader is it not , 1.5 - .5 Lamda? Where as the Narrow band can only recognize just above and below the 1 Lambda or 14.7 + or - ?
    Just learning.
     
  9. Andytwodogs

    Andytwodogs Well-Known Member

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    Not sure exactly what you are getting at. I am no expert, but have done hundreds of road tuning logs with the PVCX as a beta tester for Craig Bennett.

    Perhaps rather than me trying to relay information that I am not totally au fait with, I will post the following links to Craig Bennett's blog on flash tuning Victorys with PVCX and the Visteon ECU. Craig successfully road tunes these bikes to 99% using the narrowband sensors. My personal bike (cammed) we have done using the widebands.
    Victory Motorcycle Tuning: Fuel Injection Overview

    Also, as Craig is primarily interested in tuning Indians, I add his blog for that which is comprehensive for those who choose to DIY flash tuning.
    My Indian Roadmaster: INDEX OF TUNING TUTORALS

    I think that all Craig's info will certainly provide some insights, despite the fact that he is using the PVCX rather than Maximus. Aside from some practical differences, the two tuners are really just dumb interfaces allowing the tuning software (the biggest difference) to 'talk' to the bikes ECU.
     
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  10. waterhog

    waterhog Well-Known Member

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    It is unlikely that the ECU was flash tuned using PVCX/Maximus. By default, flash units get married to a single ECU and are useless for other bikes. Unless a tuner used a license (made available for PVCX not long ago) without the bike owner buying a unit. Not sure if licenses are available for Maximus.

    The quickest way to get a ballpark sense if your CR is running rich/lean is to look at the spark plugs. Lots of pictures out there so I won’t go into it here. If the bike’s running fine, you’re not hearing pinging, and plugs don’t indicate severe lean/rich condition, you are likely ok. One other thing you can try is put 93 octane fuel and check if she’s a tad more preppy. Conversely, try 87 octane fuel and check if she starts to ping when you put her under load. If not, she’s likely fine. Be careful as persistent pinging is a good way to damage the engine.
     
  11. Dan050

    Dan050 Well-Known Member

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    Pull the tank and see if it has a Lloyd's air filter or the Victory Stage 1 filter. If it does, then most likely it's had a fuel tune also.
    If its stock filter, then probably not.
     
  12. waterhog

    waterhog Well-Known Member

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    This issue has too been discussed on VOG. No serious tuner uses narrowband sensors to tune EFI engines. Having said that, tuning motorcycles is not rocket science. Most riders want to get decent power, care somewhat about fuel economy, next to no concern for emissions. For getting a bike into 70-75% shape which is what you get by remote tuning, narrowband sensors seem to do the job. In one user report, Bennett followed up 10+ times when remote tuning a Vic owner’s bike which shows professional concern.

    If you street tune your bike, how much net benefit you get out of wideband sensors remains to be seen. One additional benefit you will definitely get is tuning a wider range of RPM-MAP cells that narrowband can’t safely do. But again, because we’re mainly focused on power and rideability, extrapolating the cells that can’t be reached will likely be adequate. We have several excellent Vic remote tuners. They’ll probably know the engine and popular mods inside out so that just guess-timating they’ll arrive at a decent tune. That’s why some seem to get by doing just a couple of street runs.

    After VE table calibration and front/rear cylinder adjustment is completed, the most important phase for power begins: timing advancement. Power comes principally from that. This cannot be effectively done remotely so likely most remote tuners are putting in canned numbers that will be adequate. Since our 106 engines don’t have knock sensors, no remote tuner is going to risk damaging a customer’s engine, hence must set timing conservatively.
     
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  13. wickman

    wickman Active Member

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    I close the program and reopen and before I power on the bike key the screen shows there is a backup orig map button
     

    Attached Files:

  14. wickman

    wickman Active Member

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    B60E4C6D-DF52-40DB-A8C0-4C354A057D6D.jpeg Once the get ecu details info is filled and backup option button disappears I even opened the file in the right box that would be flashed to ecu but still no option to backup original.
     

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