[adamnorthup]

I picked up an '08 Kingpin 8ball, and it absolutely is missing a ton of the snarl my '06 Vegas 8ball has.
I know they changed the injection also, but the strong compression exhaust pulse on the 06 is definitely not there in the 08.
Researching, it's pretty clear that the difference is that full point of compression.
I figured I'd replace the '08 pistons with the 06/07 pistons, but the part numbers are listed as THE SAME in the part finder. Did they get smart & drop the 8.7 piston? or lazy & drop the 9.8 piston?

Did they change the head combustion chamber to drop it down? I heard that the '08 heads were "opened up for better power, but were crack-prone" better power sounds like larger ports, but that doesn't drop compression. just got me thinking about the heads when I heard that. I had made the assumption the heads were all the same, since I don't see much discussion on them (compared to car head discussions).
Or change the base gasket/cylinder height so the pistons are further down in the jug?
I can shave the heads for a smaller chamber or top of jugs to get pistons to zero deck like I would with a car, but would rather KNOW the change & do it the same as factory instead of experimenting.

The KP will just be a fun cruiser.
Hoping I can just fix the compression & add tube intake for a strong street engine.
I really don't want to have to rip open the '06 to measure & compare components, as it runs like a champ as-is.

If any of you guys who do this for a living can clarify?
KevinX ?

I'll share anything I can find out as well.
Thanks in advance!

 

[Half_Crazy]

It's in the head.... Less squish area in the combustion chamber.

Anything you may attempt to raise the compression will require removing the engine from the frame. If you have the engine out and the heads/cylinders off... why would you put it back together stock?

 

[kaitiff]

I had the unique opportunity to own both an 09 KPT and an 07 KPT, in that order. Hands down the 07 is a better running bike. The 08 is a bit of an odd duck; it had some things in common with the earlier models and the newer.. like the timing wheel is the same as the 07 and earlier Freedoms but it's closed loop like the 09 and above. One advantage you'd have on the 08, I believe it could use a Maximus style tune and not need a piggy back controller like the 07 and earlier. My wife has an 08 Vegas and it runs fine, or did when she was riding it.

 

[Arkainzeye]

At the heart of the 2008 Victory models (excluding the Visions) is the 100 cubic-inch Freedom V-Twin. Changes to the powertrain include a new airbox that Victory claims enhances air intake to help produce more power. This could be a factor in the Freedom’s increase in torque that Victory says has jumped from 103 ft-lb to 106 ft-lb. The 1634cc engine also benefits from new fuel injectors, oxygen sensors and idle air control. The Engine Control Module is also new for 2008, and includes a closed loop fuel injection system. The throttle bodies have been bumped up slightly, from 44mm to 45mm. All these changes were accomplished while simultaneously lowering the compression ratio from last year’s mill, down to 8.7:1 from 9.8:1. Changes to the 6-speed trannys, with a lower ratio first gear and taller sixth gear, complete the list of powertrain changes to Victory’s 2008 Freedom 100/6 V-Twin.

 

[Half_Crazy]

At the heart of the 2008 Victory models (excluding the Visions) is the 100 cubic-inch Freedom V-Twin. Changes to the powertrain include a new airbox that Victory claims enhances air intake to help produce more power. This could be a factor in the Freedom's increase in torque that Victory says has jumped from 103 ft-lb to 106 ft-lb. The 1634cc engine also benefits from new fuel injectors, oxygen sensors and idle air control. The Engine Control Module is also new for 2008, and includes a closed loop fuel injection system. The throttle bodies have been bumped up slightly, from 44mm to 45mm. All these changes were accomplished while simultaneously lowering the compression ratio from last year's mill, down to 8.7:1 from 9.8:1. Changes to the 6-speed trannys, with a lower ratio first gear and taller sixth gear, complete the list of powertrain changes to Victory's 2008 Freedom 100/6 V-Twin.

Where did you copy/paste that Victory propaganda from? A 2007 100" will spank a 2008 100"... I don't care what Victory said. The gear ratios were better though.

I had the unique opportunity to own both an 09 KPT and an 07 KPT, in that order. Hands down the 07 is a better running bike.

Yup.

 

[Arkainzeye]

Just the people that designed the 2008 that's all ..

But hey what do they know I'm sure you can shed some light on this and correct the engineers

 

[jellybean764]

I must have picked this up here some time but I have written down" get dealer to download stock 05 Vegas map on 07 Kingpin".I am better with pencil and paper than computers.

 

[iabob]

Just the people that designed the 2008 that's all ..

But hey what do they know I'm sure you can shed some light on this and correct the engineers

Actually the engineers did not write that ad copy. The people who said the Hardball was breaking all boundaries, the Gunner was a Bobber without compromise, and the Octane had the most power in its class that was terrifying just to stand next to...those are the guys that wrote that.

It has been documented and well established that the higher compression 06-07 100" motors make more power than the 08-09's with the lower compression.

 

[iabob]

I must have picked this up here some time but I have written down get dealer to download stock 05 Vegas map on 07 Kingpin.I am better with pencil and paper than computers.

05 Hammer drag map. It's a stage 1 ecu download.

 

[Half_Crazy]

Just the people that designed the 2008 that's all .. But hey what do they know I'm sure you can shed some light on this and correct the engineers

Oh yeah, dropping the compression by 9 points and making the throttle body ONE MILLIMETER larger really WOKE that b!tch up.

And those are people trying to SELL you a motorcycle... However, I will differ to your extensive experience with owning/riding/tuning steel-frame Victory motorcycles over the years.

It has been documented and well established that the higher compression 06-07 100" motors make more power than the 08-09's with the lower compression.

Oh, so you think you know more than the people who built these motorcycles? You need to get on the train, Bob, and stop your nonsense.

 

[iabob]

Oh yeah, dropping the compression by 9 points and making the throttle body ONE MILLIMETER larger really WOKE that b!tch up

Oh, so you think you know more than the people who built these motorcycles? You need to get on the train, Bob, and stop your nonsense.

Well I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. And, I've eaten a grand total of zero Tide pods so I've got that...

 

[bikendad]

Just the people that designed the 2008 that's all ..

But hey what do they know I'm sure you can shed some light on this and correct the engineers

The Marketing Team wrote that pile of hogwash and you're their dream customer. The 08' is the worst performing Victory engine ever.

 

[Arkainzeye]

The Marketing Team wrote that pile of hogwash and you're their dream customer. The 08' is the worst performing Victory engine ever.

So what you're saying is none of those things are UNtrue then? In regards to the fuel injectors, the compression ratio, in the throttle body increasing one millimeter. There's also other articles that said the 2008 improve the reliability of the engine as well and then there's even further talks about the head was redesigned for better Cooling not completely redesigned. But redesign and ways to help with engine Cooling.

In regards to the Assumption cuz that's exactly what it is an assumption, that the marketing team just randomly picked facts out and put them out there to Lead customers to purchase the 2008. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say most of those marketing people play don't have the first clue about those very specific and detailed facts so in regards to that, I would guest say and I could be one hundred percent wrong that engineering might had the slightest little hand in providing that information to the marketing department?` what you think? Marketing department is Die Hard motorcycle riders women and men alike, and know every intimate detail of what is involved in their motorcycles? Or, the people who actually created them gave this specific information to use in marketing as well as to educate a future we're already consumer of Victory Motorcycles. I guess it's just came up with some conspiracy theory to sell more 2008 models. ? Yeah let's go with that one. The marketing department is this evil corrupt secret society , and their main mission in life is to discredit the 2007 models. I wouldn't be surprised if the marketing department is headed by dr. Evil himself

 

[kaitiff]

No..you have to look at it from the manufacturing/company point of view. They had to make the bike more tolerable to the EPA. They went closed loop. There are any number of threads on here about people complaining about how the bike does odd **** and backfires on the 08 and up bikes.
No-one is saying that they're lying per se... but the proof is in the puddin as they say. Go to Lloydz site and compare 07 and 08+ bike dyno's with the same mods. The 07 and earlier 100" bikes will outperform the 08's every time and twice on sunday mod for mod. I had an 09 KPT, then an 07. NIGHT and day difference. Same could be said about the change from 92" to 100" to some degree. The 92" had a different cam profile in it and it ran pretty damn good. I think I remember looking at some dyno's done to a 92" with lloydz intake, tune and good pipes and it would smoke the doors off of a 106" w/ factory stage one. Sometimes changes made at the factory have nothing to do with actual performance and everything to do with selling bikes.

 

[iabob]

So what you're saying is none of those things are UNtrue then? In regards to the fuel injectors, the compression ratio, in the throttle body increasing one millimeter. There's also other articles that said the 2008 improve the reliability of the engine as well and then there's even further talks about the head was redesigned for better Cooling not completely redesigned. But redesign and ways to help with engine Cooling.

In regards to the Assumption cuz that's exactly what it is an assumption, that the marketing team just randomly picked facts out and put them out there to Lead customers to purchase the 2008. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say most of those marketing people play don't have the first clue about those very specific and detailed facts so in regards to that, I would guest say and I could be one hundred percent wrong that engineering might had the slightest little hand in providing that information to the marketing department?` what you think? Marketing department is Die Hard motorcycle riders women and men alike, and know every intimate detail of what is involved in their motorcycles? Or, the people who actually created them gave this specific information to use in marketing as well as to educate a future we're already consumer of Victory Motorcycles. I guess it's just came up with some conspiracy theory to sell more 2008 models. ? Yeah let's go with that one. The marketing department is this evil corrupt secret society , and their main mission in life is to discredit the 2007 models. I wouldn't be surprised if the marketing department is headed by dr. Evil himself

The technical term is gobblygook. In sales you always try and raise the value of the product being sold. The more valuable the customer perceives the product to be, the more likely he is to purchase at a given price. So how do you do that when the engineer's answer to the tightened emissions testing actually decreases the performance...uh that doesn't raise value...so you resort to gobblygook. You take some specifications and you spread immeasurable claims about them. "With a new air intake design, larger throttle bodies, and new fuel injection system the 2008 Victory offers more torque, smoother throttle response, and better reliability". See how easy that was, I just made it up on the spot. Sounds pretty good right? But more torque than what? More torque across the entire rpm range compared to a 2007 Victory? Or more torque at 3950 rpm than a 2007 Victory? Or more torque than a 2003 Honda Shadow? What is "smoother throttle response"? How can that be measured? Better reliability than what? Are we saying a 2008 airbox wont break as often as a 2007 airbox? That's kinda dumb. Are we saying a 2008 will have fewer breakdowns in total than a 2007? That too is kinda dumb as there's still a majority of parts shared. So again that could mean almost anything. Claims can't actually be measured...gobblygook.

Just like claiming a bagger with apes breaks some kind of boundaries, a Vegas with a different front wheel and fender is a bobber without compromise, or an Octane has an engine with class leading performance that's terrifying to stand next to.

Face it, the 2008-2009 100" motors make less power than the 2005-2007 100" motors. About 10% less torque and 5% less hp. Percentages that increase with mods until you do something about compression. Those are measurable, and measured claims.

 

[bikendad]

So what you're saying is none of those things are UNtrue then? In regards to the fuel injectors, the compression ratio, in the throttle body increasing one millimeter. There's also other articles that said the 2008 improve the reliability of the engine as well and then there's even further talks about the head was redesigned for better Cooling not completely redesigned. But redesign and ways to help with engine Cooling.

In regards to the Assumption cuz that's exactly what it is an assumption, that the marketing team just randomly picked facts out and put them out there to Lead customers to purchase the 2008. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say most of those marketing people play don't have the first clue about those very specific and detailed facts so in regards to that, I would guest say and I could be one hundred percent wrong that engineering might had the slightest little hand in providing that information to the marketing department?` what you think? Marketing department is Die Hard motorcycle riders women and men alike, and know every intimate detail of what is involved in their motorcycles? Or, the people who actually created them gave this specific information to use in marketing as well as to educate a future we're already consumer of Victory Motorcycles. I guess it's just came up with some conspiracy theory to sell more 2008 models. ? Yeah let's go with that one. The marketing department is this evil corrupt secret society , and their main mission in life is to discredit the 2007 models. I wouldn't be surprised if the marketing department is headed by dr. Evil himself

There were NO cooling or reliability problems to solve. The motor was de-tuned to satisfy EPA emissions tests no matter how they SPIN it. Like has been said, marketing has to come up with something to SELL BIKES, they're not going to advertise that they DE-TUNED the motor for 08' and expect to sell bikes. Every Vic tuner/builder will tell you that the 08's are a bit weaker than the rest when it comes to horsepower and torque. Not a bad running engine, just not as strong.

 

[wvrider1]

The technical term is gobblygook.

Is that anything like jibber jabber?

 

[Arkainzeye]

There were NO cooling or reliability problems to solve. The motor was de-tuned to satisfy EPA emissions tests no matter how they SPIN it. Like has been said, marketing has to come up with something to SELL BIKES, they're not going to advertise that they DE-TUNED the motor for 08' and expect to sell bikes. Every Vic tuner/builder will tell you that the 08's are a bit weaker than the rest when it comes to horsepower and torque. Not a bad running engine, just not as strong.

There's a difference between there being a cooling problem which was never ever mentioned. Vs increasing cooling efficiency. And more oil flow to the moving part especially the head. I'm think it's quite easy to believe, Victory would not have taken a step backwards especially since considering back then they were trying to compete with Harley-Davidson tooth and nail. So I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't make the 2008 worse or lesser of an engine than the 2007 and based on the fact that the victory Engineers have mentioned, but that's only part of it there's even more I just can't find them right now I used to have a whole breakdown of the 2008. I don't own any of the 100 cubic inch engines I've only owned 3 106 cubic inches and in all three of those there have been improvements 2008 then when I went to my 2011 there was dramatic improvements to the transmission to charging system you-name-it the list goes on. Then I got a 2013 freedom 106, and that engine was only 2 years newer than my 11 and that engine was dramatically quieter in the 2011 especially in the transmission Department. Which there's quite a few threads about the 2011 with the torque compensator noise and how to resolve it. My 2013 106 had none of that at all. Each year that I've had a 106 engine there's been improvements every single time especially from 2008 to 2011 there was dramatic improvements . Electrical and mechanical

 

[Half_Crazy]

I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't make the 2008 worse or lesser of an engine than the 2007.

No one said the 08 was 'less' or 'worse', just that it wasn't as powerful. This is a well known and well documented fact.

I don't own any of the 100 cubic inch engines I've only owned 3 106 cubic inches and in all three of those there have been improvements 2008 then when I went to my 2011 there was dramatic improvements to the transmission to charging system you-name-it the list goes on. Then I got a 2013 freedom 106, and that engine was only 2 years newer than my 11 and that engine was dramatically quieter in the 2011 especially in the transmission Department.

From what I saw the transmission got worse after the supposed 'improvements' in 2012. My trans shifted better when it was coming apart than a late model Victory bike shifts.

This is why Victory became stagnant and is now gone, because they didn't do incremental improvements in the machine over time. No way I would have "upgraded" to a newer Victory because mine's better than the new ones. Victory needed to learn from their mistakes and improve, but they were too busy romancing Indian.

 

[iabob]

There's a difference between there being a cooling problem which was never ever mentioned. Vs increasing cooling efficiency. And more oil flow to the moving part especially the head. I'm think it's quite easy to believe, Victory would not have taken a step backwards especially since considering back then they were trying to compete with Harley-Davidson tooth and nail. So I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't make the 2008 worse or lesser of an engine than the 2007 and based on the fact that the victory Engineers have mentioned, but that's only part of it there's even more I just can't find them right now I used to have a whole breakdown of the 2008. I don't own any of the 100 cubic inch engines I've only owned 3 106 cubic inches and in all three of those there have been improvements 2008 then when I went to my 2011 there was dramatic improvements to the transmission to charging system you-name-it the list goes on. Then I got a 2013 freedom 106, and that engine was only 2 years newer than my 11 and that engine was dramatically quieter in the 2011 especially in the transmission Department. Which there's quite a few threads about the 2011 with the torque compensator noise and how to resolve it. My 2013 106 had none of that at all. Each year that I've had a 106 engine there's been improvements every single time especially from 2008 to 2011 there was dramatic improvements . Electrical and mechanical

You're "pretty sure" they wouldn't make 2008 a lesser engine than 2007 but the rest of us are not pretty sure, we're absolutely sure they did just that. The proof is in the dynos, stock to stock the 2007 makes about 10% more torque and 5% more hp. As I said, it only gets bigger with mods until you address the low compression on the newer motor. Google "Lloydz dyno graphs" and read for yourself. We're not making this up, we have no reason to.