Cop Corner 2.0 | Page 25 | Victory Motorcycles: Motorcycle Forums

Cop Corner 2.0

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by VicVisionBulldog, Aug 31, 2020.

  1. lou8700

    lou8700 Well-Known Member

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    I agree the guy was a useless sob that needed to be arrested that day but I think the way the police officers handled it was wrong which led to shooting him in the back seven times out of panic.
     
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  2. VicVisionBulldog

    VicVisionBulldog VOG Police Chief

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    What should they have done?

    They told him he's under arrest.

    He fights.

    They tase him.... Twice.

    He gets one officer in a headlock and breaks free.

    Starts to walk away holding what appears to be a knife so the police draw their guns.

    He continues to resist and got shot.

    I suppose they could have just let him get in the car and leave. You know..... The car that wasn't his...... With kids in the back?

    If he in fact was holding a knife he was DRT. A knife is a deadly weapon.... Especially the one he seemed to have. It's meant for fighting. So if true I would say all those officers showed great restraint and have the turd as much time as possible to see the error of his ways.
     
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  3. jmstang302

    jmstang302 Well-Known Member

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    You will argue ANYTHING without knowing EVERYTHING WON'T you?
     
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  4. satxron

    satxron Well-Known Member

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    They are usually criminals, but not always. I think you may be giving them way too much deductive ability. Generally speaking if they were not screwing up somehow the police wouldn't be in contact with them to begin with.

    I will make a general statement. Every police department has a policy on police chases. When the chase starts to get out of hand and danger to the public starts to get involved SOP is simple. The lead chase, the raking person in the chase or the shift supervisor will can/call it off. That happens with frequency.

    Now that person probably committed felony reckless behavior under multiple names across the nation. We don't always chase them until they kill somebody in the vehicle or crash. Its about public safety. If your police car runs a red light at 60MPH and kills a family, you better get your checkbook out. If you chase a person so hard it starts to degrade the speed and recklessness you are escalating it not the one fleeing. So many court verdicts on this.

    If you are arresting a guy for speeding and he has a warrant for failing to appear on a traffic violation, then he runs on foot. Can you shoot him? If you tackle him and he is fighting to get free, can you shoot him? Now it gets to the point of can you shoot him, and should you shoot him. They can be two different things.

    But I truly do understand your point. The problem is the Police are the Executive branch of government. Not the judicial. They can use as much force that is reasonably needed to affect the arrest. I think sometimes we should be thinking about the crime and what force is needed to affect that arrest. It was agued last week that police have discretion.

    So when the other cars show up the officer could say something like this. "He was fighting hard to get away. It was getting to the point of me shooting him or him hurting me. He ran that way. I wasn't going to shoot a guy for not appearing in court." Sometimes it is not a contest somebody has to die over.

    Then there is also that bullet that missed. Who did it hit?

    I think the someplace in the middle has become elusive in many cases.
     
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  5. satxron

    satxron Well-Known Member

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    I am not arguing. Are you trying to start an argument?
     
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  6. VicVisionBulldog

    VicVisionBulldog VOG Police Chief

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    As soon as a person resists arrest they commit a new crime.

    As soon as a person assaults a police officer they commit a new crime.

    As some as a person evades police they commit a new crime.

    A person is not taken down hard or shot for FTA or another warrant. It will be for what they did trying to avoid that arrest that could have been simple.

    I've arrested murders without a cross word and I've arrested class C warrants that decided they would rather go for a felony.
     
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  7. Flyboy

    Flyboy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah the panic of getting a knife in his neck...
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
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  8. Deltaflash

    Deltaflash Well-Known Member

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    No he never did anything that stupid again. Got married had two kids and has worked at the same job now for 30+ years. Lessen learned on his part and he went on with life. Many will never understand that and make all kinds of excuses for ones that don't learn.
     
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  9. snobnd

    snobnd Well-Known Member

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  10. jmstang302

    jmstang302 Well-Known Member

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    Screenshot_20200918-145239~2.png
     
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  11. lou8700

    lou8700 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with much of what you say but still believe there's a lot to be learned from the whole incident. When were the police aware that he had that knife? Maybe they could of taken more decisive action before he got into the car. What possibly could of you done differently? Monday morning Quarterbacking is just that but seems like this case would make a good training video to learn from.
     
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  12. VicVisionBulldog

    VicVisionBulldog VOG Police Chief

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    To answer those questions I would need the full report. But to say they could have done better requires the same.... More information. I'm just tired of people judging police activity off a clip and not getting the entire picture. How many times once the entire picture is clear are the police shown to have done the right thing, doing the best they could with what they had?

    I'm all for doing an after action report to make us better. Most units already do these regularly. The issue is you can not plan for everything and though you may have a plan it may not always work as you hope. There are a ton of variables.

    There is one thing that is almost guaranteed to work to keep both sides safe. The suspect simply needs to listen and comply.
     
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  13. 13SicVic

    13SicVic Well-Known Member

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    With all due respect you seem to be looking at the issue from only one perspective and it is not from the safety of the law enforcement officer and not necessarily from a legal perspective during a use of force.

    unless the officer is being unlawful, once force is initiated whether by the officer to affect arrest or because they are reacting to behavior by the arrestee the officer has to use whatever force is necessary to accomplish that for the safety of all involved. Period.

    if the offender doesn’t want to comply and resists what happens after that is on them.
     
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  14. VicVisionBulldog

    VicVisionBulldog VOG Police Chief

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    I'll add that even once the entire picture is clear there are still many people that refuse to see it and stick to screaming in the streets ACAB, pigs in blankets, fry them like bacon.....and my favorite from the first big false narrative, hands up don't shoot. They don't want the truth.
     
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  15. vindex1963

    vindex1963 Administrator Staff Member

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    Many years ago my X and I were in a bar in Chicago and some guy hit my X right in the mouth. I beat him into a three day hospital stay with broken ribs, a popped lung, no front teeth and multiple stitches in his mouth. We took my X to the hospital for stitches and because she was injured in a fight they had to call the police. When the police arrived the one officer told me to hold my hands out and he slapped them HARD. I asked him why he did that and he said that was for not waiting outside the bar and whipping his ass again. I'm sure he didn't know of the guys injuries. I've had a huge respect for the police ever since and to this day when I see an officer I mention to please be careful out there you have a tough job. My experience with the police have always been good because I stay on the right side of the law.

    I got a DUI 35 years ago and the police were pretty tough on me, I was also on the wrong side of the law.
     
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