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Closed Loop Fuel Injection Question

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Recently I have had a concern with my new 2010 Kingpin. My concern is with the closed loop fuel injection system. Until recently I did not even know what closed fuel injection system meant. So I really questioned Victory's rational for using it. Upon further investigation I realize the validity of it but it seems that the system is a little flawed. Does anyone know the answer as to why when the throttle is released the fuel flow into the injectors is cut completely off? To me this seems to make the bike run erratically during deceleration and when accelerating out of curves after deceleration. I have been told of some of the tricks to help smooth this out -- and they do help -- but if possible, I would like to find a cure rather than a remedy.
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While a power commander will allow a good tuner to do many things with engine as far as I know it will not correct this problem, I have a power commander III on my bike now and it will still quit from time to time
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I have the PC5 on my XC. It does not and cannot solve the problem. The PC's work by modifying the signals from the ECM. If there is no signal then there can be no modification.
System sucks huh?
RR
 

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The fact that it's closed loop and the fuel shutoff on 0 throttle are two completely different issues. Closed loop is used for a very small portion of the fuel map to control AFR to allow the bike to meet EPA emissions standards. Shutting off fuel at 0 throttle is a standard practice in EFI systems to reduce/prevent deceleration popping and cylinder wall fuel wash (raw fuel coating the cylinder walls that washes by the rings and contaminates the oil).

This should ONLY occur at ZERO throttle, not partial throttle so perhaps learning a little better throttle control might help in your off/on throttle transitions.

I really think the problem you are feeling more more driveline lash than the fuel cutoff. I've played around a lot with non-Victory fuel maps on V-Rods to try and tune out this same sensation only to find that it has more to do with all the lash than with fueling. This has been confirmed by long discussions with various driveline engineers. The single thing that cleared up most of the problems on that bike was the introduction of the slipper clutch. I thing it's something that every road bike could benefit from and the design is usually all contained within the clutch basket so it doesn't require any re-engineering of the transmission.

Bottom line here, get used to the way the bike works or sell it and find one that fits your riding style better........
 

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FYI. I found that herky jerky sensation on my 08 Kingpin to be obnoxious and sometimes almost unsafe. I did however adjust the play in the throttle cables at the handlebar and removed as much play as possible without putting tension on either cable. It went from a major concern to a minor annoyance.
 

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I had the same problem with my 09 Victory. Took some getting used to switchimg back and forth from an 07 to an 09. Way too much air when getting on the throttle. Would occasionaly get what I called an air volcano from my intake when getting on the throttle too quickly. Spoke with Lloyd about this. He said something about the throttle plate opening completely when backing off the throttleallowing full air in. AGAIN I am not a wrench, do not play one on TV, so this is just off from my memory being told by someone who knows a lot more than me and me really not paying attention. I tried his IAC Valve. Took a little tinkering to get it just right. The Vision is cold blooded now with it getting some of the air restricted at start up.But after a few minutes, the days ride is much more enjoyable. No throttle lag, much more responsive.
The following is from his web site describing the IAC Valve.
Not sure if this will help but worth a try.
We listened to all the complaints of backfiring and twitchy throttle feel on tip in and decided to do something about it. All 08-10 bikes are non-serviceable when it comes to making adjustments. This component will fit all 08-10 Victory Motorcycles and will give you the ability to adjust your Idle Air at the turn of a screw. The I.A.C. (Idle Air Controller) on your bikes opens as the throttle is applied making a larger intake leak then needed to support idle air. Our new Valve will allow you to fine tune this for your bike and comes baring the Lloydz name.
What we've seen over the past year in developing this is that all bikes require a slightly different adjustment depending on the pipes, intakes and fueling requirements of that specific motor. The unit can be used on all Victory's from stock to modified in the 08-10 model years. The combined use with a Lloyd'z fuel controller is recommended for complete tuning of the fuel curve.
We've seen:
  • Reduced or eliminated Backfiring
  • Smoother transition on the tip-in throttle feel
  • More Throttle response
  • Improves the Lean Stall condition
  • Allows Idle Air Adjustability
  • Easy to install and use
  • Specifically Designed for 08 Victory with Closed loop systems
 

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VictoryFella said:
Recently I have had a concern with my new 2010 Kingpin. My concern is with the closed loop fuel injection system. Until recently I did not even know what closed fuel injection system meant. So I really questioned Victory's rational for using it. Upon further investigation I realize the validity of it but it seems that the system is a little flawed. Does anyone know the answer as to why when the throttle is released the fuel flow into the injectors is cut completely off? To me this seems to make the bike run erratically during deceleration and when accelerating out of curves after deceleration. I have been told of some of the tricks to help smooth this out -- and they do help -- but if possible, I would like to find a cure rather than a remedy.
VF, I think the only cure will be when the warranty runs out trash that stupid IAC. and make adjustments where the manual tells ya not to.
Anyone know who makes this FI system.?? Its 5 years behind the times.
My Raider has a perfect FI system.. So WTF
The back lash in the primary gears just agravates the problem. I mean its not like it's their first Fly By Wire.
 

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http://www.lloydz.com/store/item_view.asp?estore_itemid=1000078
This, if I undrstand things correctly, will eliminate that sudden drop off (and probably popping) and make the bike more mamangeable. Nothing like the lean out, pop and sudden jerking as you regain control as you make your way thru switch backs with no guard rails.
I spoke to an engineer at Vic last year and he/they claim they can't change operation due to EPA regs. (so why use such a **** solution then?)
 

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Page 141 Emission Control System Warranty.. If I'm reading it right says the emission system warranty is good for five years.
Well the ES is causing drivability issues and needs to be corrected..And if ford makes it or has it made they can sure afford a silent recall.
 

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busajack said:
Page 141 Emission Control System Warranty.. If I'm reading it right says the emission system warranty is good for five years.
Well the ES is causing drivability issues and needs to be corrected..And if ford makes it or has it made they can sure afford a silent recall.
The emission system warranty is good for a period of use of five years or 30,000 Km or 18,641 mile which ever comes first.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
First let me state that I am a proud Victory owner and I really like my bike. When it comes to my new bike this problem is the only gripe that I have. Since there is no appearent fix, I will do the little things that I can such as adjust the slack from my cables per ZZ's comments, look into the purchase of an IAC valve per Rick's comments, try to change my riding habits a little, then just hop on the sucker and ride. After all things could be a lot worse. Such as parts vibrating off while I'm riding, having to add a quart of oil every 250 miles or so... Thanks-a-lot for all of your responses. I have learned a lot. P.S. OT I was not beating a dead horse, he was still alive. He just was not cooperating so I thought he needed some motivating. Sometimes attitude ajustments work, but not this time. This horse has died a painful death. Now, concerning those O2 sensors.....
 

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It took me quite a while to adjust to the little surge at low revs when the fuel is allowed back on. I was also not changing down quick enough and I use first gear a lot more than previous bikes. My previous bike a 1000 Vstrom would pop or fart stall more often than my VV. In fact I think the VV has only done it a couple of times. I also had a couple of test ride on a KTM 850 adventure which pop stalled both rides. I thought it is a characteristic of big V twins unless you are spot on with the tuning.
 
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