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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I'm contemplating on getting the Bassani Road Rage 2 exhaust for my stock 2016 Hammer S and have a question concerning fuel mapping. I would only be adding a different air filter...no cams and no timing wheel. I want better sound with no loss of mid-range torque. I generally find myself in the 2,500 to 4,500 RPM range during normal riding, and I'm not interested in absolute peak HP/Torque values. I'm not drag racing...so...If I was to switch out my stock exhaust setup with the Bassani, what's the easiest option in adjusting the fuel mapping so that the bike runs well and is not too lean?

I've called Dynojet and talked to them about the PowerVision CX which re-flashes the ECU, and they suggested the "Trask 2-1 full exhaust, Lloyds drop in air filter" tune if I get the Bassani. However, I understand that I just can't find someone with a PowerVision unit...it has to be married to the bike thus I have to purchase the unit which is $400 just to get the ECU re-flashed. I don't know much about Power Commander V, but I do know that they have to be installed and left on the bike for the re-tune to work. I'm not doing the dyno thing....I don't know anyone who has that equipment.

The Victory Cobra Tri-Pro is an option, and it provides a certification number that allows a dealer to re-flash the ECU. A dealer not too far away from me will do the re-flash for $50. I understand that the Victory Stage I products are not suitable to top power...but I'm not trying to go in that direction. I just don't want to lose what I consider normal riding conditions power/torque, and I want a better sounding system than the stock pipes.

Any advice? Am I wrong on how to get my bike re-mapped? I also ride a Yamaha FZ09 and had the ECU re-flashed by someone that specializes in that bike, but he doesn't flash Victory bikes.
 

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PCV and timing wheel, or Maximus.
Maximus can be tuned from afar, but it's most likely the best if it's dyno tuned.
PCV/timing wheel combo can have a canned tune installed by you, and then it's best to have a dyno tune to polish out any little wrinkles..
 

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Not having the ability to set up a great controller on a dyno will limit you to the lesser controllers.
For you, I'd recommend the Lloydz VFC. All it does it add fuel with some push buttons. No frills, just a little more fuel to work with your new pipes.
There is no reason to go with a Power Commander 5, the Power Commander CX, or the Maximus (the most typical controllers) because they all require a professional to set them up properly. If you're going to get one of those controllers and try a generic map you might as well save your time and money and get the VFC. A great controller is only as good as the tune that is put into it, and none of the three I mentioned is worth a damn with a generic, untuned map.
Lloydz VFC for you because it can be set up at home without a dyno.
A better controller only if you seek out a professional to help set it up.
 

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i recommend going with the powervision cx.
buying a powercomander and timingwheel is like buying a 92-vic.
you can do it and may be happy with it, but your buying old tech with less possibilities.
 

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Maximus stage I will be pretty darn close for you right off. Tech support will also work with you to fine tune the maps based on how the bike is running for you. Yes a dyno tune is your best option with whatever controller you get but really just hold off on the dyno until you go for cams.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I appreciate everyone's advice and comments....I didn't anticipate this being so difficult to transform the sound of my bike from a sewing machine and maintaining proper fuel/air ratio and performance. I'm having a difficult time with the concept of adding electronics (plus the cost) rather than a simple re-flash. I looked into the Vicbuilder advice about the Lloydz VFC since that sounded more simplistic, but damn if I could find one video that explained how to use the device.

I noticed that no one suggested the Victory/Cobra Tri-Pro exhaust...which comes with a stage 1 air filter and a Vic re-calibration that A dealer performs as a re-flash. In my view this is the direction that I would like to go in since it's simple and not a loud pipe, but I can't find any performance comparisons to this vs stock and I know these systems seem to be frowned upon. If I'm correct the third map on the Vic Shop Power Commander site seems to be for this exact set-up...but requires an add-on Power Commander....correct? Is this not a good set-up for normal street riding?
 

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I appreciate everyone's advice and comments....I didn't anticipate this being so difficult to transform the sound of my bike from a sewing machine and maintaining proper fuel/air ratio and performance. I'm having a difficult time with the concept of adding electronics (plus the cost) rather than a simple re-flash. I looked into the Vicbuilder advice about the Lloydz VFC since that sounded more simplistic, but damn if I could find one video that explained how to use the device.

I noticed that no one suggested the Victory/Cobra Tri-Pro exhaust...which comes with a stage 1 air filter and a Vic re-calibration that A dealer performs as a re-flash. In my view this is the direction that I would like to go in since it's simple and not a loud pipe, but I can't find any performance comparisons to this vs stock and I know these systems seem to be frowned upon. If I'm correct the third map on the Vic Shop Power Commander site seems to be for this exact set-up...but requires an add-on Power Commander....correct? Is this not a good set-up for normal street riding?
actually, devices like the maximus and the pvcx are not beeing added to the bike. they just reflash the ecu, like you would like it.
 

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Well with Fuel Moto doing the data logging narrow band remote tuning service along with the Dynojet CX. I think that might be a good choice. Tuner and pro tweaking of your map data for <$500 I think probably your best choice for the money.
 

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So I'm contemplating on getting the Bassani Road Rage 2 exhaust for my stock 2016 Hammer S and have a question concerning fuel mapping. I would only be adding a different air filter...no cams and no timing wheel. I want better sound with no loss of mid-range torque. I generally find myself in the 2,500 to 4,500 RPM range during normal riding, and I'm not interested in absolute peak HP/Torque values. I'm not drag racing...so...If I was to switch out my stock exhaust setup with the Bassani, what's the easiest option in adjusting the fuel mapping so that the bike runs well and is not too lean?

I've called Dynojet and talked to them about the PowerVision CX which re-flashes the ECU, and they suggested the "Trask 2-1 full exhaust, Lloyds drop in air filter" tune if I get the Bassani. However, I understand that I just can't find someone with a PowerVision unit...it has to be married to the bike thus I have to purchase the unit which is $400 just to get the ECU re-flashed. I don't know much about Power Commander V, but I do know that they have to be installed and left on the bike for the re-tune to work. I'm not doing the dyno thing....I don't know anyone who has that equipment.

The Victory Cobra Tri-Pro is an option, and it provides a certification number that allows a dealer to re-flash the ECU. A dealer not too far away from me will do the re-flash for $50. I understand that the Victory Stage I products are not suitable to top power...but I'm not trying to go in that direction. I just don't want to lose what I consider normal riding conditions power/torque, and I want a better sounding system than the stock pipes.

Any advice? Am I wrong on how to get my bike re-mapped? I also ride a Yamaha FZ09 and had the ECU re-flashed by someone that specializes in that bike, but he doesn't flash Victory bikes.
I was thinking almost the exact same for my CCT. I have the Bassani 2 into1 pipes, Lloyds filter, timing wheel and Lloyd told me a pc3 would do the trick. He even sent a map. They are still in the boxes.
I hope to pass right by Rylan this summer so I emailed him about cams and he said not to use pc3, use 5 so I have a still sealed up pc3 that I won't be using.
I hope to hang everything on next month then in June have Rylan do the cams add a 5 and tune it. I forget what I paid for the pc3 but you can have it for $50 less than Witchdoctor sells them for.
 

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Well with Fuel Moto doing the data logging narrow band remote tuning service along with the Dynojet CX. I think that might be a good choice. Tuner and pro tweaking of your map data for <$500 I think probably your best choice for the money.
I would caution against narrowband tuning. There is no free lunch and some basic questions haven't been answered.
 

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This is what worked for me and my bike runs better now than the 3 different times I've had it professionally dyno tuned with different fuel controllers over the years.

If you are at all savvy with a computer and can turn a wrench, get a PC V with Autotune.

One of the tricks is to turn off the Autotune from 1,000 RPM and below and fatten up the fuel a little bit at idle so you don't roast your nuts off sitting at the stoplight, especially if you have cams and a timing wheel. Leave the A/F ratio at the preset 13.9:1, don't lean it up any as the Vic's run better & cooler a tad rich. After riding a few miles, accept the fuel trims a few times in the tables to get it close, then leave it turned on. It will continue to fine tune as you ride as you can see it in the fuel tables and is what the Dynojet engineers recommend you do. And no, riding with it on doesn't prematurely burn out the wideband O2 sensors. I run a timing wheel with +4 and retard the timing in the timing tables a bit in the 1600-2000 rpm range to eliminate the pinging. I advance the timing +2 in the tables above 4000 rpm. I'm also running high comp pistons, cams, flowed heads, and get the most power out of the stock exhaust with the cats removed on a 2009 Vision.

The worst part of the install is removing the O2 sensors, especially if you have some miles on your bike. The easiest way is to take the pipes off the bike, lightly clamp the O2 sensor in a vise, then grab ahold of the pipe and turn. Every one I've done that way comes right out. Clean up the burrs on the exhaust header flange and use Lloyds exhaust gaskets when you put it back together.
 

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I'm aware of that...but according to Vicbuilder it also requires professional help.
imo its best ifyou get some professional help, no matter which device you use. BUT with the pvcx you can do some things by yourself without extra devices. you can change some timing, but instead of simply add lets say 4 degrees all over the map (whats what a timing wheel would do), you can decide for each cell what or how much you wand. or you can flash and reflash the ecu with canned maps or simply add some fuel where its needed.
fuelmoto actually provides remotetuning for the pvcx and My Indian Roadmaster explains how you could do it by yourself.

i'm not saying the pvcx is best, but it sure provides more functions than any other device and you still can go to a dyno if needed.
 

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I had the VFCIII on mine. It worked fine. It was on it when I got it and the bike ran great but I could tell it was fat in areas and I knew I could get better performance if I were to upgrade that to the PCV. It already has a timing wheel, HPT cams, intake, decent exhaust.

I put the PCV in the bike with a canned map that comes in range of mine and it runs well, but it ran better with the VFC. I believe it is because when the bike was put together by Tuscon Victory they remapped the ECU as well. The original owner knew what the numbers were on the Dyno, and really only stated that he had them put all the Lloydz goodies in it and told them to make it scream.

Another reason I believe the ECU was flashed is because when I put the PCV into it, the canned map had some timing alterations in it. I noticed that in certain conditions I was hearing a detonation ping. I backed off the timing in those areas and I don't get the pings now but it's still not like it was with the VFC in it. I'm hoping once I get it tuned with KevinX in April out in Prescott it'll run like I believe it should.

One thing I liked about the VFC was it was easy to go out to some desolate area and seat of the pants tune it if you understood what it was doing and was capable of. I've used similar tuners on other bikes, it's reasonably priced and effective to a point. Can you get max out of it? Not without some other intervention and the ability to measure AFR directly and monitor the electronics but you can get it running better than stock configuration for certain and added fuel is a MUST if you're opening up the intake and adding better flowing pipes.

Here's a good document that KevinX set up. It's the same thing I been doing for years on other bikes and works well if you got a good feel for what the bike is doing.

http://buywitchdoctors.com/images/_resource_victory-motorcycle-parts-1569.pdf

Good luck with your tuning and have fun with it.
 

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Buy the VFClll from Vicbuilder/Rylan or Kevinx/Southern Motorworx and they will give you the correct settings for your bikes mods. One hand washes the other ;-)
 

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...
I noticed that no one suggested the Victory/Cobra Tri-Pro exhaust...which comes with a stage 1 air filter and a Vic re-calibration that A dealer performs as a re-flash. In my view this is the direction that I would like to go in since it's simple and not a loud pipe, but I can't find any performance comparisons to this vs stock and I know these systems seem to be frowned upon. If I'm correct the third map on the Vic Shop Power Commander site seems to be for this exact set-up...but requires an add-on Power Commander....correct? Is this not a good set-up for normal street riding?
If a better sounding exhaust is all that you want, going with a Vic exhaust installed by an authorized Vic service center which should have access to factory calibration should work.
This is what worked for me and my bike runs better now than the 3 different times I've had it professionally dyno tuned with different fuel controllers over the years.

If you are at all savvy with a computer and can turn a wrench, get a PC V with Autotune.

One of the tricks is to turn off the Autotune from 1,000 RPM and below and fatten up the fuel a little bit at idle so you don't roast your nuts off sitting at the stoplight, especially if you have cams and a timing wheel. Leave the A/F ratio at the preset 13.9:1, don't lean it up any as the Vic's run better & cooler a tad rich. After riding a few miles, accept the fuel trims a few times in the tables to get it close, then leave it turned on. It will continue to fine tune as you ride as you can see it in the fuel tables and is what the Dynojet engineers recommend you do. And no, riding with it on doesn't prematurely burn out the wideband O2 sensors. I run a timing wheel with +4 and retard the timing in the timing tables a bit in the 1600-2000 rpm range to eliminate the pinging. I advance the timing +2 in the tables above 4000 rpm. I'm also running high comp pistons, cams, flowed heads, and get the most power out of the stock exhaust with the cats removed on a 2009 Vision.

The worst part of the install is removing the O2 sensors, especially if you have some miles on your bike. The easiest way is to take the pipes off the bike, lightly clamp the O2 sensor in a vise, then grab ahold of the pipe and turn. Every one I've done that way comes right out. Clean up the burrs on the exhaust header flange and use Lloyds exhaust gaskets when you put it back together.
The caveat is that wideband O2 sensors cost in the $400-$600 range which the OP is trying to avoid. Otherwise I concur with your overall strategy.
 
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