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Discussion starter · #61 ·
...so let's say you are a bulider @Chattanooga_Mark or @Bikesofbrads ... and you get invited to enter a bagger in the next race....

Do/Would you run a Vic?
What model would you use?
What mods would you consider?
you wont get a choice, they will say Indian or HD . If it was a Vic its hard to place with those Indians considering they are water cooled.
And I would bet they would not be allowed to use Indian technologies even if they were ear marked for Victory. Your hands are Tied.

Unless the Vic builders have some tricks up their sleeves. Victory did not get the chance to evolve like it could have.

And there would have to be an open class, simply because they will make it clear it has to be a current production motorcycle.

The Vision would probably do well but to keep in line with what was on the track it would be a CX.
 
Hmmm.. for a vic to be in that race it would have to be a 116 or 117 with cams and tune. I think that alone would have made it competitive with the other bikes that are there. I don't have the specs of the ones that were competing but I heard them say at least one of the HD's were turbo charged, so to me punching out and swapping cams are a no brainer. I'm not sure how much of a suspension change may or may not be necessary to keep an XC competitive on that track.. def an underdrive pulley and 1/4 turn throttle. I think that would place a vic at least in the top 3 with a good rider. From what I've read of guys that have modified vics the stock Challenger isn't any more powerful than they are.
 
Discussion starter · #63 ·
Hmmm.. for a vic to be in that race it would have to be a 116 or 117 with cams and tune. I think that alone would have made it competitive with the other bikes that are there. I don't have the specs of the ones that were competing but I heard them say at least one of the HD's were turbo charged, so to me punching out and swapping cams are a no brainer. I'm not sure how much of a suspension change may or may not be necessary to keep an XC competitive on that track.. def an underdrive pulley and 1/4 turn throttle. I think that would place a vic at least in the top 3 with a good rider. From what I've read of guys that have modified vics the stock Challenger isn't any more powerful than they are.
The stock suspension for track wold be a disaster.
Hmmm.. for a vic to be in that race it would have to be a 116 or 117 with cams and tune. I think that alone would have made it competitive with the other bikes that are there. I don't have the specs of the ones that were competing but I heard them say at least one of the HD's were turbo charged, so to me punching out and swapping cams are a no brainer. I'm not sure how much of a suspension change may or may not be necessary to keep an XC competitive on that track.. def an underdrive pulley and 1/4 turn throttle. I think that would place a vic at least in the top 3 with a good rider. From what I've read of guys that have modified vics the stock Challenger isn't any more powerful than they are.
If they said one of the challengers was stock, I don't believe it.
 
@CrazyDiavelRider hold up ur being crazy again let the kids have some fun hahaha @jedi-mcfly thats an awesome question & am salivating now ( evil laugh ) just only cause Xct is the bike I have I'll stick w/ it stripped dwn shaved dwn. Of course BB & procharged ( shot of nos for backup ) & the finest tuned suspension. Carbon fiber panels & titanium fasteners. Deff a 1/4 turn & unlimited track time. Am drooling just thinkin " what if ". Ok what bout U
 
Discussion starter · #65 ·
Hmmm.. for a vic to be in that race it would have to be a 116 or 117 with cams and tune. I think that alone would have made it competitive with the other bikes that are there. I don't have the specs of the ones that were competing but I heard them say at least one of the HD's were turbo charged, so to me punching out and swapping cams are a no brainer. I'm not sure how much of a suspension change may or may not be necessary to keep an XC competitive on that track.. def an underdrive pulley and 1/4 turn throttle. I think that would place a vic at least in the top 3 with a good rider. From what I've read of guys that have modified vics the stock Challenger isn't any more powerful than they are.
116 or 117 with some goodies may be enough for the streets, or the strip, but not where they raced. The revs are always up. That"s probably why many of the HD's did so poorly. Great for TQ. The second place HD had plenty of TQ but not enough top end. The so called stock Indian was pretty far behind at the line. Until I see it I will believe it, and I hope I am flat out wrong, would love to see a Victory do well in a race like this.

would love to see a Dyno from the winning Indian.
 
I like what ur thinkin Dave, in the race series @ tech in, the bikes are all put on a dyno & the sheets are posted for all. B great so teams know who’s got what & for all us fans geeking out with those crazy numbers & then building R bikes like the pros. Having the same technology as what’s on the aftermarket & direct Indian HD parts. All the smaller shops ( like how Llyods started ) getting their names out there.
 
Ok what bout U
Well I would start with a Kp steel frame, keep the inverted forks and stiffen them up. The handlebars need to be lower and the foot pegs need to be move back. I would keep the 18" wheels/rubber but increase the brake rotor to two and would want a triple piston caliper. BB kit with the heads reworked for better flow. I like the idea of chain drive for easier drive tatio changes. The swing arm would have to be carbon fiber as well as the rear fender ... I would have to keep the stock bags though and add a faring.
 
Well I would start with a Kp steel frame, keep the inverted forks and stiffen them up. The handlebars need to be lower and the foot pegs need to be move back. I would keep the 18" wheels/rubber but increase the brake rotor to two and would want a triple piston caliper. BB kit with the heads reworked for better flow. I like the idea of chain drive for easier drive tatio changes. The swing arm would have to be carbon fiber as well as the rear fender ... I would have to keep the stock bags though and add a faring.
Yup all of the above seel frame, etc, but I would do a 106 supercharger

Smile
 
Man I gotta ride a steel frame just so I know what it’s like, I’m enamored with the king pins dressed out like an xct. Just like that narrower, easily transformable bagger, to cruiser, to hell yea dragster, multiple bikes in 1 that the Pin can do. Thnx every1 for helping me spend my kids’ inheritance, since Vics are collector bikes I guess it’s really an investment of their inheritance plus my kids R asses so either way it’s all good.
 
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Discussion starter · #70 ·
Well I would start with a Kp steel frame, keep the inverted forks and stiffen them up. The handlebars need to be lower and the foot pegs need to be move back. I would keep the 18" wheels/rubber but increase the brake rotor to two and would want a triple piston caliper. BB kit with the heads reworked for better flow. I like the idea of chain drive for easier drive tatio changes. The swing arm would have to be carbon fiber as well as the rear fender ... I would have to keep the stock bags though and add a faring.
There were no soft tales in the race, everything was full size baggers. I new this would start to happen . If it was an open class then yes.
 
Well... to be fair the Kingpin TOUR was considered a 'full size bagger' when it was released. It was supplanted by the Cross bikes. If we're going to go that far tho, we'd also have to consider a TC from before the Kingpin.. they had all the same features as a full bagger too. Clearance and suspension on those really wouldn't work well on that track tho...at least not on any that I ever rode. I test rode a TC back in the early 2000's and the biggest thing that ran me off was the cornering clearance. They stretched a C frame to make it a TC and a C already had less than optimal cornering.
 
116 or 117 with some goodies may be enough for the streets, or the strip, but not where they raced. The revs are always up. That"s probably why many of the HD's did so poorly. Great for TQ. The second place HD had plenty of TQ but not enough top end. The so called stock Indian was pretty far behind at the line. Until I see it I will believe it, and I hope I am flat out wrong, would love to see a Victory do well in a race like this.

would love to see a Dyno from the winning Indian.
Can't say I agree with your assessment on how well a 116 or 117 would do in that race. I can't recall anyone complaining about the over-cube vics having revving issues. In fact quite the opposite from the guys that run them. I would personally trust a big bore vic for high revs over an HD every day of the week and twice on Sunday. You have a point on the suspension.. I don't know how much money was spent on those bikes to improve suspension, but if the equivalent was done to a Vic I think it's a stiff enough frame and platform to handle the cornering. It's an interesting idea to think about a Vic in that race but of course we all know it couldn't ever happen. Could you imagine Wine trying to justify how a bike he threw away would beat or even compete with his new darling Indians? ROFL!
 
It would be nice to merge these two threads.

Polaris continues to hide from the fact they ever created Victory Motorcycles. Thankfully we still have a few decent former dealers and some aftermarket support. At some point Polaris ‘could’ raise the costs to an Indian dealer to the breaking point of even servicing Victory’s as well as mandate they remove any Victory signage from their buildings.

You won’t see a Victory in this new Baggers class as it will be very limited as to what brand can enter for a while. I suspect H-D is furious they got spanked by Indian and they will throw their considerable clout around as much as possible.

Now, add a Baggers ‘Open’ class and the popularity would surpass any and all expectations.
 
Discussion starter · #74 ·
Can't say I agree with your assessment on how well a 116 or 117 would do in that race. I can't recall anyone complaining about the over-cube vics having revving issues. In fact quite the opposite from the guys that run them. I would personally trust a big bore vic for high revs over an HD every day of the week and twice on Sunday. You have a point on the suspension.. I don't know how much money was spent on those bikes to improve suspension, but if the equivalent was done to a Vic I think it's a stiff enough frame and platform to handle the cornering. It's an interesting idea to think about a Vic in that race but of course we all know it couldn't ever happen. Could you imagine Wine trying to justify how a bike he threw away would beat or even compete with his new darling Indians? ROFL!
The amount of laps were minimal. Why?. HD does not have liquid cooling. so Big motor's suffer getting too hot and losing power as the race went on.
The longer the race the worse it will get.

So because of this I see future races being shorter. it will be something like mini drag races around the course probably 5 laps and 3 races, with a pit stop to make adjustments and cool down.
 
Stopping to pit an air cooled bike would make it get hotter, they need 100mph wind moving over them to keep m cool. In R hypothetical new non crotch rocket racing series I have developed different classes so every1 can race. Big baggers & cruisers can take the track from stock to SS to unlimited, can do like the sports cars series have em all on track @ same time or 1 class @ a time depending on tracks size & how many bikes of each class showed up. Maybe our new series would b the push Hardley needs to move into this century, it’d sure push innovation & reliability in the parts world.
 
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Discussion starter · #76 ·
Stopping to pit an air cooled bike would make it get hotter, they need 100mph wind moving over them to keep m cool. In R hypothetical new non crotch rocket racing series I have developed different classes so every1 can race. Big baggers & cruisers can take the track from stock to SS to unlimited, can do like the sports cars series have em all on track @ same time or 1 class @ a time depending on tracks size & how many bikes of each class showed up.
Just like in a dyno they keep air moving , but it would mostly be for adjustments and tuning.
 
Yea they’d prob hafta use big fans while refueling & tweeking. Guys we need to start a petition & put a lot of people back in the job force. Seriously how many new jobs would arise just from this race series......thousands if not tens of thousands after the trickle down, hell maybe even a few of us
 
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OH COME now guys! You obviously haven't listened to the HD propaganda! They liquid cool the HEADS on the HDs.. so they technically are liquid cooled! One of the selling points for me on the vics was the oil cooler on them.. and the actual pressurized oil pump that fed them. I'm not saying you can't overheat a vic but it's a damn sight harder to do than it is with just about any HD I've ever been around. It's rather telling that Vic downsized the oil coolers not once but TWICE over their product lines because they were too efficient.. wouldn't let the engines get up to operating temps or stay there in really cold weather.
 
116 or 117 with some goodies may be enough for the streets, or the strip, but not where they raced. The revs are always up. That"s probably why many of the HD's did so poorly. Great for TQ. The second place HD had plenty of TQ but not enough top end. The so called stock Indian was pretty far behind at the line. Until I see it I will believe it, and I hope I am flat out wrong, would love to see a Victory do well in a race like this.

would love to see a Dyno from the winning Indian.
I agree with your wanting to see a dyno graph. The question I have is: Would a 117" kit be enough with a driveline change from a belt to a chain like some of the other bikes had?

That way you could more easily get the gearing suitable for the track etc. The cams and the tuning could be selected for top end and the rear sprocket for the track. If a 177" Victory could put a solid 135 Hp and Trq to the rear wheel, wouldn't gearing do, much not all, the rest? After all, the 106 nomenclature of having 4 valve heads and overhead cams is exactly where the (Victory) Challenger motor DNA came from.

Most of the riders were simply spectacular as well. Similar in golf where someone like Tiger Woods with a $40 set of garage sale clubs would completely beat a 'club pro' with a $4,000 set of clubs. It's the same reason bench racers never win anything, but actual racers through experience can.
 
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