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Airplane fuel

16K views 197 replies 33 participants last post by  Flyboy 
#1 ·
I have access to an airport that will allow me to fill up. The fuel is ethanol free 100 octane leaded. Is there an issue with using leaded gas in a 106 engine? besides being ethanol free is there any benefit to use the 100 octane? Will my tune be off using this? My bike was tuned using 93 octane 10% ethanol.
 
#2 ·
In the past I've heard that lead (in cars) will clog cats.
I would think the same is true for bikes.
If you have them removed then you should be able to run it.
The question is would you need it.
Run the least expensive high quality gas that will work for your setup. Anything more is just a waste of money.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Octane is a tool to deal with higher compression and unwanted pre-detonation from said compression. Mainly perfected in WWII for high compression aircraft engine using turbos and super-chargers.

Fast-forward to today and 20% of aircraft have an 8.7 to 1 compression which is low for an automobile app. But requires at least a true 100 octane requiring lead to accomplise. Now there is a push due to 8 years of EPA running amuck to eliminate this undetectable use of less than 1% of fuel burned as a hazard to mankind.

In short, won't be around much longer as manufacturers are on the edge of 100 octane Avgas with no lead. First attempt was to make aircraft owners go to 8.5 to 1 and burn 91-96 octane Mogas, but another Feral Agency (FAA) stated that will require changes to performance numbers and complicate to whole ball of wax from under horsepower engines.

I digress, @Half_Crazy is on point about gaining anything. To make my point, Jet Fuel is really clean kerosene and has more latent energy than gas. That is why it weights in at 6.9 lbs per gallon v 6.0 lbs per gallon of gasoline. It will detonate without spark under pressure like a diesel and why Diesel engines sound like pre-detonation. Because it is how they work with no spark plugs...
 
#8 · (Edited)
High octane fuel burns slower (higher flash point). Pump fuel is FINE for your motorcycle. There is zero benefit to 100 octane.

Why people are so f**king scared of 10% ethanol in their gasoline, I cannot understand. I have never had a single issue with any engine... motorcycle, car, truck, tractor, mower, weed eater, generator... because of ethanol in the gasoline.

My bike is 11.2:1 compression. It runs just fine on 92 or 93 octane gasoline, with or without ethanol.

Aviation fuel is not highway taxed. You could get in trouble for using it in a street vehicle and the airport could get in trouble for allowing you to put it in a street vehicle.
 
#10 ·
Why people are so f**king scared of 10% ethanol in their gasoline, I cannot understand. I have never had a single issue with any engine... motorcycle, car, truck, tractor, mower, weed eater... because of ethanol in the gasoline.
The issues with ethanol is the fuel will hygroscope; i.e. attach to water molecules. In carbureted engines, the aluminum carburetor components will corrode if the gas has become saturated chemically with water. That corrosion, in the form of white colored crud, can find its way into small orifices, causing issues with the runability of the engine. If fresh ethanol is used and the engine run frequently, then there is usually no problem; allowing untreated ethanol to sit over a long period of time (winter storage) can present a problem.

Aside from that, the ethanol has a tendency to "dry" real rubber parts. Viton and PCVC parts are not adversely affected, but Nitrile and Buna N can harden and crack due to contact with water saturated ethanol. Garage queens are most likely to suffer from the use of ethanol.
 
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#11 ·
In Germany we have e10 super petrol with 96 octane and 10% ethanol. Super Plus with 98 octane 0% ethanol and super with 102 octane.
I had already tested everything and found no difference. Except in the wallet. Today E10 costs 1,24€/Liter, Super 1,26€/Liter and
102 Octane 1,46 €/litre.
My tuner has also tested E10 and 102 Octan and found no difference on the test bench.
 
#14 ·
In Germany we have e10 super petrol with 96 octane and 10% ethanol. Super Plus with 98 octane 0% ethanol and super with 102 octane.
I had already tested everything and found no difference. Except in the wallet. Today E10 costs 1,24€/Liter, Super 1,26€/Liter and
102 Octane 1,46 €/litre.
My tuner has also tested E10 and 102 Octan and found no difference on the test bench.
They test octane with a different method where you are... the numbers do not align with octane ratings in the US. Your 98 octane would be the same as our 93 octane.

American vs European fuels - Octane rating - eTuners
 
#22 ·
Ok real quick I haul aviation fuel for a living have for last 20 yrs. the fuel your looking at has a small amount of lead in it it's actual name is a avgas 100 LL which stands for 100 octane low in lead the octane is supposed to be 100 at a bare minimum. I would dump a gallon in my Harley occasionally figured just clean things out a bit.
 
#26 ·
Actually 100 LL Avgas is pretty dirty compared to lead-free...

For those that are interested:

Avgas - Wikipedia
Wikipedia › wiki › Avgas
Avgas is an aviation fuel used in spark-ignited internal-combustion engines to propel aircraft. Avgas is distinguished from mogas .... 100LL (pronounced "one hundred low lead") may contain a maximum of one-half ...
 
#29 · (Edited)
Not trying be difficult, but with the lead component, it will leave residue/deposits and can't be good on the cats or O2 sensors. Will your engine blow-up or run like a P-51's Merlin?

No and I have had friends run it in various engines. Just doubt it would clean anything from what I have seen in aviation engines. I look forward to a lead free alternative with a 100 octane rating. As a matter of fact, hold on to your socks, at full rich Lycoming states it acts like 130 octane and 100 octane at cruise lean.

Do I believe it will make my bike run better? No, I do not...
 
#30 ·
I haven't used it since I had my 04 Electra Glide and used it exactly like I said occasionally figured it would keep my carb free of varnish build up. That's from listening to mechanics in the hangers. My favorite part of hauling aviation fuels the $ lol
 
#34 ·
If I still had my 73 Shovel, yes it might find it's way in based on they were designed for leaded fuels and I had heard it helped the exhaust valves. But not so sure now a days as oils have improved. Especially after overhauling a cylinder in my Lycoming from exhaust valve guide wear.

My unfavorite part is paying for that Blue Gold... :run:
 
#31 ·
I run mid-grade most of the time (89 Octane) and will throw in a tank of premium (91 Octane) with a dash of MMO about every 3rd or 4th tank. Seems to be working OK. I was trying to find non-ethanol fuel for the longest but finally gave up. Consequently, E10 has not posed any issues that I am aware of to date. It would be interesting to see what would happen if I could find some "real gas" and was able to put 2-3 tanks of it through the bike. Would I notice any difference? I want to say yes, but I honestly don't know...
 
#33 ·
Oh, it'll run fine; it just won't make as much horsepower as on a lower octane gas. Octane is only needed to slow the flame front propagation on high compression engines so the fuel charge doesn't "diesel" or pre-detonate; that is what causes the valves to "ping".
 
#37 ·
I simply run 91 rec fuel (found at fastrak and Valero and some Stewart's) which is ethanol free, if I cannot find 91 rec fuel, I use 89 not 93, bike does not like 93, everyone thinks high octane means more power for me no..
 
#42 ·
Your motorcycle is designed to run optimally on 93 octane. If you use lower you get ping. If you use higher you get increased carbon deposits and ZERO added benefits. I'm not sure but I also think the addition of lead will also cause unwanted deposits.
 
#44 ·
funny how much threads between bike forums and car forums emulate each other.

Run your motor hard otherwise you'll burn oil because your rings won't seat when it's new.

run highest octane because it somehow makes the motor run stronger, gears bang with more authority, mileage goes up

these brake pads will increase your brake feel on a hydraulic system that does that work for you

you need an 'oil catch can' on your direct injection motor otherwise you'll lose gobs of horsepower with coked up valves

oil, well we all know how those threads go

oh well, still fun to read.
 
#45 ·
I do know av-gas mixed with nitropil fertilizer in a plastic sandwich bag and a inch or so of cortex as a primer with a 2 min or three if your a slow walker burning fuse attached, makes for a loud bang.....
 
#46 ·
My bike states specifically 106 right on the sides below the tank, so that's what I put in the tank.
 
#47 ·
Ok, so I just finish my very scientific comparison between 87 and 93 octane fuel .

My tuner suggested I use 93 octane in my bike because of the combination I have. So that's what I have done .

Today I Filled my 13 XC with 5.3 gallons of 87. Went for a 60 mile ride in various conditions, temperature between 75 and 80.

I definitely felt at least a 3 HP/TQ increase on the butt dyno using the 87 octane fuel. I am now completely convinced...87 is the way to go...
 
#48 ·
One time coming home from a camping trip in a 1960 Olds Station wagon we ran out of fuel.
Dumped in a couple or three gallons of Coleman camp fuel.
Was a bit noisy but didn't run any better or worse.

My grand pa (bear in mind this guy told whoppers) said that during the war when gas was rationed they would run cars on kerosene.
Had a 5 gallon can with kero in it & a three way valve.
Said he would warm the engine up on the regular fuel tank then switch to the kero when rolling down the road.
Ran like $hit & smelled different out the tail pipe but got them where they were going.
 
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